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Thread: Save States anyone?

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    The Chinese Kid Kid Panda's Avatar
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    Save States anyone?

    What are your thoughts on using save states in shmups? Do you feel it makes you better? Or are you just trying to memorize the game so you can get a clear and move on? I've always been curious, I've never used save states and honestly, I've never heard of Japanese players using them. I'm pretty sure the old guy in flip flops with the cigarette hanging out of his mouth in the Hey! Arcade can clear games without paying attention. He's never used save states.

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    Fuck no. I don't use save states in any games.
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    Haomaru's Blade Shiner
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    Yeah, nah. I get the idea behind them and I can see how they can help you improve more quickly, but it truly defeats the spirit of the game for me. It almost feels like homework, trying the same small section over and over and over again...

    Just play the game, get good, clear.

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    Why wouldn't you use them? Do you also not use stage select/practice modes? Those didn't exist in arcades either, neither did youtube videos, FAQs and all sorts of other shit that is available now. By not using them you are basically just handicapping yourself and slowing your progress. If that doesn't matter to you then yeah, just ignore them. For me, I think that it is retarded to not use every available resource.

    If you are playing something hard do you really want to replay 30-40 minutes of game just to be annihilated at a TLB in it's opening attack 20 times in a row? And repeat that over and over and over again wasting untold hours of your life just to possibly last another few seconds each time? Or would you rather replay that boss and learn it's attacks without spending weeks/months/years and getting pissed off and demoralized?
    Last edited by pegboy; 11-22-2017 at 12:20 AM.

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    Sometimes I use save states, but I never consider a game legitimately beat unless I can do it without them (or any other form of cheating). If nothing else, they're useful if you have to interrupt your playing to go take care of something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegboy View Post
    Why wouldn't you use them? Do you also not use stage select/practice modes? Those didn't exist in arcades either, neither did youtube videos, FAQs and all sorts of other shit that is available now. By not using them you are basically just handicapping yourself and slowing your progress. If that doesn't matter to you then yeah, just ignore them. For me, I think that it is retarded to not use every available resource.

    If you are playing something hard do you really want to replay 30-40 minutes of game just to be annihilated at a TLB in it's opening attack 20 times in a row? And repeat that over and over and over again wasting untold hours of your life just to possibly last another few seconds each time? Or would you rather replay that boss and learn it's attacks without spending weeks/months/years and getting pissed off and demoralized?
    If playing a game feels like wasting your life maybe it's time to give up on games...

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    Quote Originally Posted by M View Post
    Sometimes I use save states, but I never consider a game legitimately beat unless I can do it without them (or any other form of cheating). If nothing else, they're useful if you have to interrupt your playing to go take care of something.
    Agree, I don't use them for cheating or learning patterns etc, but just a nice way to pick up were you left off if you have to do something and want to play later or the next day. I understand why it would bother the arcade purist though.

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    For me, it very much depends. I appreciate it if a console port of a shooter allows me to select levels, because sometimes I just feel like playing a particular stage, but I wouldn't use saves for the same thing. Also, there's nothing wrong with practicing on a particular level. If you can breeze through a couple of levels just to reach the one you really want to focus on, why not? I'm not against it.

    This opinion is clashing a bit with the fact that I prefer the real hardware over emulation, but like I said, I'm not against it, and I have used save states when I used to play Solomon's Key regularly. You can't continue when you reach a certain level, and puzzling out the later rooms takes time.

    This is one instance where I would emulate and use save states. The first 30 rooms weren't a problem, and going through all of them, or more, just to get to the next one and polish the technique wasn't unpleasant, but extremely time consuming. Also, I like hitting all of the bonus rooms when playing "regular way". There was a period when I would use MAME save states to learn the later layouts and try to figure out remaining extra rooms.

    Also, ever since I bought the Everdrive X7, I can't recommend its snapshot save feature enough. It's not perfect and doesn't work for every game in every situation, but it's great for games which either don't support save states at all, or like some RPGs, allow you to save only in certain spots. I ususally play before I go to bed. The save feature is perfect if I want to continue the next day. With original games, I'd just leave the game paused, so I don't consider this type of use cheating.

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    I don't use save states but that's mainly because I'm too lazy to figure out how to do so
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyo View Post
    I don't use save states but that's mainly because I'm too lazy to figure out how to do so


    it's usually just one button, dude. usually f1-f2 to save and f3- f4 to load a state.

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    I use save states all the time to practice speed running tricks in Super Metroid.

    I wouldn't use them in an attempt at a personal best time or on a high score run in a shmup. Part of the thrill is knowing you have to perform in real time without any do overs.

    I've used the practice modes in Ikaruga and Under Defeat to practice specific stages and I don't see how that is any different from a save state. I think using save states for practice is fine and should be encouraged, but they should never be used when going for a PB or high score. That kinda defeats the point.

    You play your games the way you want. I'll play the way I want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig View Post
    If playing a game feels like wasting your life maybe it's time to give up on games...
    Playing a game in the dumbest manner possible does feel like wasting my life, that's why I don't do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegboy View Post
    Playing a game in the dumbest manner possible does feel like wasting my life, that's why I don't do it.
    Actually trying to do a straight play-through is the dumbest manner possible? Ok then....

    You do know all those YT videos and Superplays you mentioned earlier were done doing just that right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tw3ek View Post
    Actually trying to do a straight play-through is the dumbest manner possible? Ok then....

    You do know all those YT videos and Superplays you mentioned earlier were done doing just that right?
    I know for a fact that it is not true. Several players on the shmups forum have done "superplays" and they use save-states to practice. I have the world record in Thunder Force AC and I used save states to practice it in order to get to that level. Project AKO, another player on the shmups forum has the Aero Fighters 2 world record and used save states to practice and figure things out too. So yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.

    Just because some Japanese player has been playing a game for 20 years using that method doesn't mean it is the only, best way to play. If they had been using save states to practice they would get to that level much faster. Even then, you still do not know for a fact that none of the world records holders or "superplayers" ever used saves states to practice at home or not.
    Last edited by pegboy; 11-22-2017 at 01:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pegboy View Post
    I know for a fact that it is not true. Several players on the shmups forum have done "superplays" and they use save-states to practice. I have the world record in Thunder Force AC and I used save states to practice it in order to get to that level. So yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.
    Yea, ok. I'm talking about in 94. Not some guy on a keyboard counting how many times he pressed left. Sitting at a cab and just playing, like one would in an arcade is much more satisfying. Billy Mitchell use save states to get a perfect game on Pac-Man? No. If you wanna play like that, it's fine, but the devs did not make the game for you to play it like that. If they did it would be so hard you would be forced to do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Panda View Post
    Yea, ok. I'm talking about in 94. Not some guy on a keyboard counting how many times he pressed left. Sitting at a cab and just playing, like one would in an arcade is much more satisfying. Billy Mitchell use save states to get a perfect game on Pac-Man? No. If you wanna play like that, it's fine, but the devs did not make the game for you to play it like that. If they did it would be so hard you would be forced to do it.
    The devs also didn't make stage select and other training modes for arcades either, they didn't envision youtube, etc. Yet people seem to be perfectly okay with those and still condemn save states? I don't really care what the devs intended, none of that even matters to me and it's also impossible to know what their expectations were unless they come out and tell us. For instance, the sadistic devs who made Gradius III expected you to dodge every single cube in the cube rush instead of building a wall and hiding behind it.

    If you get a more rewarding experience not using save states that's totally fine. I'm not going to say you're experience isn't valid, because that would be retarded. I'm just saying that if you want to get better at the game as quick as possible, then saves states are the way to do it. To me personally, I find the endless grinding of runs without knowing what is coming to be a tedious exercise. But that's just my opinion.
    Last edited by pegboy; 11-22-2017 at 01:19 PM.

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    Haomaru's Blade Shiner
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegboy View Post
    Why wouldn't you use them? Do you also not use stage select/practice modes?
    No. Show me how to access these on the pcb?

    Quote Originally Posted by pegboy View Post
    Those didn't exist in arcades either, neither did youtube videos, FAQs and all sorts of other shit that is available now.
    But superplay vhs/dvds did, as did looking over the shoulder of the local player at the arcade. And as soon as message boards came around, those existed too.

    Quote Originally Posted by pegboy View Post
    Or would you rather replay that boss and learn it's attacks without spending weeks/months/years and getting pissed off and demoralized?
    I dunno, I tend to enjoy playing games. If you get pissed off and demoralized playing games, that's on you.

    Quote Originally Posted by pegboy View Post
    Playing a game in the dumbest manner possible does feel like wasting my life, that's why I don't do it.
    U mad bro?

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    If I had a reliable/preferred emulation setup, I would absolutely use save states to practice.

    Doing 25/30 minute runs day in day out only to reach a final boss that ends my run in seconds IS demoralizing stuff.
    I understand that's how things are meant to be. And I do things this way. But I know I'd be a much better/more productive player if I used save sates.

    I agree with pegboy, but I can relate more to wyo.

    Hey M, maybe you should use save states to practice V-V?
    Last edited by andsuchisdeath; 11-22-2017 at 02:01 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by andsuchisdeath View Post
    If I had a reliable/preferred emulation setup, I would absolutely use save states to practice.

    Doing 25/30 minute runs day in day out only to reach a final boss that ends my run in seconds IS demoralizing stuff.
    I understand that's how things are meant to be. And I do things this way. But I know I'd be a much better/more productive player if I used save sates.

    I agree with pegboy, but I can relate more to wyo.

    Hey M, maybe you should use save states to practice V-V?
    The problem I have with using save states is it turns into a chore for me. Once I beat a problem spot, there's no satisfaction for me. It's just more of, "well let's move to the next hard spot". I enjoy the exhilaration of beating a hard spot alot more and I guess it dumps some dopamine on me and gives me a high.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Panda View Post
    The problem I have with using save states is it turns into a chore for me. Once I beat a problem spot, there's no satisfaction for me. It's just more of, "well let's move to the next hard spot". I enjoy the exhilaration of beating a hard spot alot more and I guess it dumps some dopamine on me and gives me a high.
    Well, without save states I'll always eventually hit a "chore point" with any difficult game. It remains to be seen whether my use of save states could eliminate that point, or simply change the presentation/format of the "chore".

    I do understand the exhilaration you're referring to though, and I think I'd be able exert enough self control with save state use in order to keep that exhilaration preserved. Maybe not though.
    Last edited by andsuchisdeath; 11-22-2017 at 02:20 PM.

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    No interest in them.

    Do they save your score as well, or only your progress?

    Do you respawn with full lives, or only one life?

    I think i'd like the idea of them even less if the score is saved an you respawn with full lives.
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    Jesus Christ, pegboy. You're getting defensive-as-fuck about this. People are free to enjoy games however they want. If you like to enjoy them by cheating, then more power to you. What do you care what random assholes on the internet think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmjr25 View Post
    No interest in them.

    Do they save your score as well, or only your progress?

    Do you respawn with full lives, or only one life?

    I think i'd like the idea of them even less if the score is saved an you respawn with full lives.
    Think of it as pausing a game, only you can unpause it repeatedly from that spot.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    Jesus Christ, pegboy. You're getting defensive-as-fuck about this. People are free to enjoy games however they want. If you like to enjoy them by cheating, then more power to you. What do you care what random assholes on the internet think?
    Calling save state practice "cheating" is a quite a stretch.

    I don't think he's being defensive either. He is right. Using save states to practice will expedite the learning process.

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    he spends hundreds on scarves, of course he's a fag and then ChuChu Flamingo preserved the aftermath in a plastic case making sure it wasn't exposed to unstable air
    You're just upset that you're too goddam stupid to understand the games and whiff infinites.
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