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Thread: Turning a bad game to a good one

  1. #1
    Timid Neo Newbie
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    Turning a bad game to a good one

    Hi there,

    I noticed that people usually complaints about a game. And...stop.

    Maybe it's a matter of opinion sometimes, but very rarely I saw posts that bring an example or an idea that would change theyre mind on that game.

    I've opened this thread since I'm really interested in that opinion or idea.

    I'll start with an example: World Heroes series.
    When I was a kid I couldn't afford a Neo as many as u guys I suppose.
    Now that I've plenty of carts an consoles, I put my hands here an there ...an played with most titles, fulfilling the crying kid inside me...
    ...and honestly World Heroes disappointed me.
    Looking at those special attacks like energy sharks and galleons on the magazines shocked me so much that I was really expecting a masterpiece the first time I've tried that on my Neo.

    Well...I found it really lacky on animations, controls are not very responsive, and yes...some char has cool moves, but maybe the rest of the animation asset isn't at the same level.
    So improving that points maybe could perfectize not only the look and feel, but the playability too.
    Summing up all that thing: I strongly suspect that even the "strategy" of the duels would benefit in some way.

    What do u think?

    Thanks for reading!
    Last edited by Black_Jack; 11-06-2017 at 03:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Another Striker
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    So what you are asking is for people to point out the flaws in games that would benefith from said flaws being remedied? It's kind of obvious that any given game would be better if it had its issues fixed, be it the gameplay, graphics, music, story or everything all at once.

  3. #3
    drunk downunder!
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    I can imagine that a lot of games would benefit from being better.





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  4. #4
    Chang's Grocer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Jack View Post
    What do u think?

    Thanks for reading!
    First, I think, you made a cool thread! It meets my theory, that in life, things don't change -- but we do. Unfortunately, that would suggest, that it's not up to the game to be "better", but yourself -- its player. From my experience, I can tell you that games only truly open up, if you spend the most precious thing to own on this planet with them: time.

    Arcade games in general, and Neo-Geo games in special are rich in details, ice-cold logic and thoroughly thought out conceptions. All these aspects were painstakingly worked out in a creative and administrative process, which demanded an immense sacrifice of time from the designers. Time that you have to reinvest, so to speak, in form of playing.

    It's ok to criticise a game from a purely subjective angle, but if you want to do it objectively, which I understand, you want to, then you'll have to show a more dedicated approach towards that certain game(s). As of now, you don't give me the impression to have spent real, serious and profound time with the World Heroes series, to convince me of its flaws. Still, I like the effort in your thread to dispute with a game, it's just needs a little more effort.

  5. #5
    Yamazaki's Pupil

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    I think this is a topic that some people are good at and some people aren't. I, for example, am not good at this at all.

    I love some games and don't like others but I'm not good at telling you why. If it's something obvious like poor controls or hit detection then yeah I can see that, but I couldn't tell you why I become so immersed in some games and others I just don't seem to be able to get into. I'm the same with movies.

    What I have noticed, though, is that the second someone tells me why they don't like something (i.e. in a review, which I might read after the fact) I can see they're exactly right and that's what it was that was putting me off.

    So, I'm afraid I'm very much one of the people that you're shaking your head at, and one of the people that ASID gets frustrated at, who just says something is shit and gives zero qualification for it. Because I lack the insight to give a reason why I generally just avoid trashing games.

    I also agree with Oli on this one - I think accessibility is a huge difference in games that are considered good or poor. Many games that are universally disliked, given enough time, would become fun. Throw away every other game you have except for the world heroes series and in six months you would be a good player and a fan. It's just too hard to do though - too many games to play, too little time.

  6. #6
    Mr Big's Escort
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    a metal slug x kind of upgrade might help a lot of games, but i tend to take them as they are. svc chaos may be broken but i still love it, and metal slug 2 might have bad slowdown, but it's my favourite out of the entire series.

  7. #7
    Blame madman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogard View Post
    a metal slug x kind of upgrade might help a lot of games, but i tend to take them as they are. svc chaos may be broken but i still love it, and metal slug 2 might have bad slowdown, but it's my favourite out of the entire series.
    From the subject I thought this was going to be some old SNK interview about them fixing up MS2 and making MSX.
    >

  8. #8
    King's Dry Cleaner
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    It's all perspective. I loved Bayou Billy on NES as a kid & still do, but it's because it was one of the only games I had so I didn't really know any better. would have probably loved world heroes in the same situation. Modern gaming has us all spoiled.

  9. #9
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    Riding Hero needs a wider road and no competing racers ramming you from behind.

  10. #10
    Thou Shalt Not
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Jack View Post
    I noticed that people usually complaints about a game. And...stop. [...] What do u think?
    Well, I think it would be great if more people knew how to code and tried to change titles to their liking. Like the mentioned MS2 Turbo mod or the SNK Dan SSIII hitbox fix. I guess some of the the SNKvsCapcom hacks (with unlocked bosses, hitbox changes, added roll etc.) fall into this category. But, well, time is limited and so are skillz.


    Also: OI! Olli nailed it.

  11. #11
    Crossed Swords Knight
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNK View Post
    So, I'm afraid I'm very much one of the people that you're shaking your head at, and one of the people that ASID gets frustrated at, who just says something is shit and gives zero qualification for it.
    No way, I think you're great.

    Quote Originally Posted by wingzrow View Post
    It's all perspective.
    Yeah.

    As far as the OP goes....

    We're at the tail end of 2017. It's not like we have anything on the line as far as WH1 turning out to be a viable alternative to SFII or whatever. I happen to enjoy the aesthetics of WH1 (for some, instant turn off). The music, sprite style, sounds, hokey designs. This is totally subjective/relative. As far as the game's objective/mechanical flaws go... WH1 can be a lot of fun if you like doing redizzies/infinites and other broken things in fighting games (not every does, or cares to learn how to do that stuff). On paper, yes, WH1 is bad.

    However, if these mechanical flaws were ironed out, I'd have LESS of an incentive to play WH1. It would be turning a bad game into a boring one. Flaws can be a selling point, perspective depending. Not always though, and when they aren't, I will give me dream fantasy suggestions!
    Last edited by andsuchisdeath; 11-06-2017 at 05:05 PM.

  12. #12
    Another Striker
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsq View Post
    Well, I think it would be great if more people knew how to code and tried to change titles to their liking. Like the mentioned MS2 Turbo mod or the SNK Dan SSIII hitbox fix.
    MS2 Turbo, a great hack that it is, is still just a minor improvement. The author himself said you can only do so much without a complete re-write of game's engine. I know there are impressive hacks of console games out there, but Mario 64 has a big enough following and is more modder friendly than the old arcade stuff. Besides, anything that's not a sprite edit or a palette swap is a low-level programming feat, and not the easiest thing to do. Depending on what you're setting out to do, I guess.

    As for "bad" games, there are plenty of games which aren't critically acclaimed, but I enjoy them just the same. Looking back at the time I spent at the arcades, I did stay away from the less polished titles, simply because I had to count my coins. I chose Vampire Savior over World Heroes not because World Heroes is a bad game, but because Vampire is the better one of the two. Now I find myself playing World Heroes series from time to time, just because it doesn't cost me money every time I do.

    And no, it's not just a matter of perspective. There are some games out there, which are universally disliked. No, I'm not talking about E.T. for the 2600, which gets more shit than it deserves, honestly, but about cash grabs, like early sub-par FPS games, trying to cash in on the success of Doom and Duke.

    I'm sure even the worst of the worst will still find a fan or two, but it's hard to imagine someone liking PlayStation's Criticom, which I thought was absolutely terrible, and that was back when I thought Battle Arena Toshinden was a decent 3D fighting game.

  13. #13
    Crossed Swords Knight
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morden View Post
    And no, it's not just a matter of perspective. There are some games out there, which are universally disliked. No, I'm not talking about E.T. for the 2600, which gets more shit than it deserves, honestly, but about cash grabs, like early sub-par FPS games, trying to cash in on the success of Doom and Duke.
    The acceptance of flaws is where perspective comes in.

    Universally disliked? Critically acclaimed? Whatever!

  14. #14
    Another Striker
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    Quote Originally Posted by andsuchisdeath View Post
    The acceptance of flaws is where perspective comes in. Universally disliked? Critically acclaimed? Whatever!
    What I meant was that there certainly are games which are considered good even by people who don't enjoy the genre. You don't have to like fighting games, but you can't deny the fact that MotW is a quality title. If these games exist, there must be games on the other side of the spectrum. Games which even fans of the given genre consider to be bad or unplayable. You can't just say every game is good in its own way, because that's simply not true.

    For the longest time I have considered Top Player's Golf to be a bad game, simply because it didn't have the appeal and polish of Neo Turf. I thought the gameplay was a bit clunky, and I have to admit, I didn't give it a fair chance. Neo Alec's review changed my opinion completely, because it actually showed there's enough there to invest some time in it. On top of that, I'm just more open to rediscovering Neo titles, since it's 2017 and the Neo library isn't exactly growing.

    That's perspective. The game itself wasn't bad, but it wasn't great, either. It's a slow burn title, which can easily disappear in the shadow of better looking games. However, I'm sure we all have titles we won't change our minds about, because you just can't polish a turd.

  15. #15
    Kuroko's Training Dummy
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    WH1 is a clunky, cheap game and is a chore to play. Infact, the entire series is.

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