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Thread: Terraonion New Product(s) discussion thread

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    I hope they never release a replacement console since those just dont interest me at all! Yes I get the HDMI output, but surely a better product would be something that can provide HDMI out for original hardware, or convert RGB to HDMI like the OSSC / framemeister etc. The market is full of those FPGA based consoles. Emulation is already there on HD on whatever device you want - PC, phone, Rasberry Pi etc.
    I'm with you on this.... Well that is unless they are officially approached by a console maker to do one. A 4k RGB upscaler using HDMI would be super cool although there are also licence fees / royalities to use HDMI I think.
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    I don't really know what to expect... You say that you want to makey money with this second project, so to make a guess, I would discard any arcade related product... But you are generating hype in a arcade-related forum... Neo Geo is one of the most famous arcade platforms, and you say that you have not earned too much money with it, so thinking that you're developing something similar for CPS1-2...

    Looking fordward to you news.

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  3. #28
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    Since this is kind of a "what would you guys like to see released" thread, I think I'll just post straight away what I'd love to see next.

    From the one I'd like the most to the one I can still live without:

    1 - CPS1 Multicart (those are impossible to obtain since aje_fr has stopped making them)
    2 - CPS2 Multicart (DS has made a new batch, but still I don't want to kill a good cart for it)
    3 - Taito F3 Multicart (again, DS has made one, but I prefer to wait to see what you guys come up with)
    4 - FPGA system CAVE multi (with hardware to rotate video (480i), so you can play without rotating your monitor)
    5 - FPGA system Toaplan (same as above)
    6 - FPGA system Konami GX Multi (same as above, but again, there are some games in there which go for crazy prices)
    7 - FPGA system Irem M92 Multi (very few games, but if made compatible with R-Type and R-Type 2 maybe it would gather enough interest)
    Last edited by donluca; 10-22-2017 at 05:55 PM.

  4. #29
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    Thanks everyone for the comments, this is being a pretty nice discussion, and this is what i pretended while starting this thread.


    We are already emulating chips on FPGAS, this is no news cause we alredy talked about this in the past. But we are emulating chips that have a reason to be emulated, those you canīt buy for example, or some chips that you can buy but you have free space on the FPGA you need for another task, so we integrate both into the fpga to save money. I am not exactly talking about what we have done in NEOSD but about bigger things we have been working at on the last months.

    My own personal opinion as gamer, freak or whatever you want to name it, about emulating chips on FPGAS is that you do it when there is a real reason to do it.

    I mean, in the 80s we had cloned NES cause an original NES was expensive (atleast here) and clones were cheaper. Now there are flashcarts for the NES or almost any other systems and those consoles are afforable. What are the advantages of cloning a console while 99% of the casual gamers will buy a NES mini for the plastic and will not care about how the games run there ?

    Is it worth to make a FPGA NES just to get a perfect hdmi out ? To myself is hard to justify the amount of work needed to do so. While you can make a nes emulator in one week, you may need 20 weeks to make the same thing into a FPGA.

    Maybe i canīt see this niche where some people are willing to pay 400 euros for a proper hdmi output, neither i think this is the path we should take, but i may be wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by kaironman View Post
    I don't really know what to expect... You say that you want to makey money with this second project, so to make a guess, I would discard any arcade related product... But you are generating hype in a arcade-related forum... Neo Geo is one of the most famous arcade platforms, and you say that you have not earned too much money with it, so thinking that you're developing something similar for CPS1-2...

    Looking fordward to you news.
    The lineup for the the next year (from now until September 2018) is already decided and we are already working at it.
    Those are 4 projects, one is finished the other 3 are in different stages, we got prototypes for all of those. There are arcade products on this list.
    I stated that we need to sell more than what we sold with NEOSD and this is a fact but there is also a fact that NEOSD was harder to develop than most of the remaining arcade things that you guys have named.



    What we have to decide now is where to put our efforts at, once we have finished those. Cause sooner or latter we are closing projects.

    This is what this discussion is about, i donīt pretend to create hype about the product we are going to anounce next month, i just want to listen others as i already know what i think about what we should work at.
    Last edited by neosd; 10-22-2017 at 06:46 PM.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
    there are also licence fees / royalities to use HDMI I think.
    There are literally hundreds if not thousands of low cost, hobbyist products using HDMI. The license fee alone is $10K, plus royalities. The second cost may vary, depending on inclusion of the HDMI logo [which is considered to be promoting the brand, and actually lowers the cost, but in turn requires official approval and standard compliance testing], but that's a lot of money. I don't think people making things like HDMI modules for N64 are paying to be adopters. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by neosd
    Is it worth to make a FPGA NES just to get a perfect hdmi out ? To myself is hard to justify the amount of work needed to do so.
    It's not. I think most of people in here will agree, seeing as they're investing in Framemeisters and OSSCs, and these aren't exactly cheap, either. Plus, a scaler is just device for all of your consoles. As long as you can get an RGB signal out, you're set. Why invest precious time and resources into cloning something that is widely available? Anyone can get a NES or a SNES, get that sweet RGB signal, run it through a scaler and boom, you're set. People in here invest in CRTs and actual cabinets. Who wants a clone when you can have the real deal?

    Quote Originally Posted by neosd
    What we have to decide now is where to put our efforts at once we have finished those, cause sooner or latter we are closing projects. This is what this discussion is about, i donīt pretend to create hype about the product we are going to anounce next month, i just want to listen others as i already know what i think about what we should work at.
    Looking at both threads, it's pretty clear everyone has a hard-on for that CPS QSound multi. And then there's me, wishing for that PGM cartridge. Not saying I want it more than CPS QSound, though. If this is one of the projects, you might just as well put me on the list right now.
    Last edited by Morden; 10-22-2017 at 06:15 PM.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morden View Post
    There are literally hundreds if not thousands of low cost, hobbyist products using HDMI. The license fee alone is $10K, plus royalities. The second cost may vary, depending on inclusion of the HDMI logo [which is considered to be promoting the brand, and actually lowers the cost, but in turn requires official approval and standard compliance testing], but that's a lot of money. I don't think people making things like HDMI modules for N64 are paying to be adopters. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    I'm not sure how others handle HDMI fees but given terraonion is a company it would be very short sighted to release something using HDMI without paying the accoiated costs with that.

    Given how it gets harder every year to get consoles to show on todays TV's... Imagine a 4k upscaler.... In theory it could also have 4 inputs and display 4 oldschool consoles on one large 4k panel at the same time, or take advantage of 3D tv to display 2 player 2 screen arcade games on a single screen.
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  7. #32
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    What about a Toaplan Version 2 multicart?
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  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by donluca View Post
    Since this is kind of a "what would you guys like to see released" thread, I think I'll just post straight away what I'd love to see next.

    From the one I'd like the most to the one I can still live without:

    1 - CPS1 Multicart (those are impossible to obtain since aje_fr has stopped making them)
    2 - CPS2 Multicart (DS has made a new batch, but still I don't want to kill a good cart for it)
    3 - Taito F3 Multicart (again, DS has made one, but I prefer to wait to see what you guys come up with)
    4 - FPGA system CAVE multi (with hardware to rotate video (480i), so you can play without rotating your monitor)
    5 - FPGA system Toaplan (same as above)
    6 - FPGA system Konami GX Multi (same as above, but again, there are some games in there which go for crazy prices)
    7 - FPGA system Irem M92 Multi (very few games, but if made compatible with R-Type and R-Type 2 maybe it would gather enough interest)
    +1, this was exactly my lineup as well (but I'd like to trade the TF3 for a system 16 maybe)

    edit:
    a de-facto system cloning, poses few questions about how legal some of these may actually be (not sure, is 20years a limit also in the above mentioned cases?)..given terraonion is indeed a serious company, and not a hack-a-job, I guess anything which could potentially lead to a C&D or even a lawsuit, could be implicitly discarded from the list.
    Last edited by massimiliano; 10-22-2017 at 06:24 PM.
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
    or take advantage of 3D tv to display 2 player 2 screen arcade games on a single screen.
    Are we talking about interlacing of two images and using pairs of differently polarized glasses, so that each player can only see one of the images? That's something Sony tried going for during the PS3 era. This could also be achieved with split-screen games on a 3D TV. In fact, this is something I have experimented with. I bought cheap polarized glasses just to butcher them for this, and it worked like a charm.

    Too bad newer TVs seem to be getting rid of 3D and going for 4K, which is weird given the fact that 3D BluRay movies are still coming out, and will continue to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by VGC1612 View Post
    What about a Toaplan Version 2 multicart?
    A man can dream! There's more than five games for it, so who knows? Still, how would that work? You'd need one of these boards. Are all of them compatible with one another? I don't know much about conversions for this particular layout.
    Last edited by Morden; 10-22-2017 at 06:37 PM.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morden View Post
    Are we talking about interlacing of two images and using pairs of differently polarized glasses, so that each player can only see one of the images? That's something Sony tried going for during the PS3 era. This could also be achieved with split-screen games on a 3D TV. In fact, this is something I have experimented with. I bought cheap polarized glasses just to butcher them for this, and it worked like a charm.

    Too bad newer TVs seem to be getting rid of 3D and going for 4K, which is weird given the fact that 3D BluRay movies are still coming out, and will continue to do so.

    A man can dream! There's more than five games for it, so who knows? Still, how would that work? You'd need one of these boards. Are all of them compatible with one another? I don't know much about conversions for this particular layout.
    Yes, thats what Im talking about.... Something like hooking up 2 daytona's to a single upscaler that outputs using the HDMI 3D spec to a TV (one player in each eye).
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  11. #36
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    CV1K repro plz

  12. #37
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    I think a proper FPGA multi arcade machine system would be the best way to target multiple markets. Especially if it could double as something you could put into an arcade cabinet or hookup to a TV.

    Theres alot of demand for things like the Pandora's Box. But the cheap Chinese solutions always leave alot to be desired.
    Last edited by Niko; 10-22-2017 at 07:40 PM.

  13. #38
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    I wouldn't mind an Atomiswave multi.

  14. #39
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    A device which connects the Neo-Geo system hardware to the internet and enables online gaming would be amazing.

  15. #40
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    Looking forward to the CPS1 Multi.

    Calling it

  16. #41
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    Multi carts: cps1, system16, m92

    You want to do FPGA? How about something that plays all the PlayStation-based arcade hardware. Boom:

    Capcom Sony ZN-1
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    Konami System 573
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    Namco System 10
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    Taito FX-1A System
    Taito FX-1B System
    Taito G-NET System
    ...and (fuck it) primal rage 2
    Last edited by ekorz; 10-22-2017 at 09:27 PM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko View Post
    I think a proper FPGA multi arcade machine system would be the best way to target multiple markets. Especially if it could double as something you could put into an arcade cabinet or hookup to a TV.

    Theres alot of demand for things like the Pandora's Box. But the cheap Chinese solutions always leave alot to be desired.
    Yeah, that'd be pretty sweet.

  18. #43
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    Damn, I'm thinking of something that might sell better than the NeoSd and the only other arcade systems that come to mind are the cps1 and cps2. Alot of people mentioning other arcade boards like PGM, Sega 16, Toaplan, Taito etc, all those have some great games no doubt but I don't know if they would fly off the shelf.

    Either way, beggers can't be choosers and if it's cool, I'll buy it. A cps1 multi would do great for sure.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morden View Post
    You mean a consolized version of a CPS + CPS2 multi, all in one? This never happening aside, what bigger audience? It wouldn't be anywhere near $80 you'd pay for a SNES mini, or $190 for Super NT. In fact, it would probably cost more that whopping $450 Analogue is asking for NT Mini. Arcade fanatics are willing to pay high prices, because single PCBs can cost more than that, but it's not exactly a hobby for the masses. You'll either have to be dedicated to your hobby, or be a Mr. Goldbar Moneybags.
    Of course there would be a huge difference, you're comparing real arcade hardware to a cheap emulation box. Besides, no one expect any arcade project to compete with Nintendo stuff, clones or otherwise. That's not what I was saying.

    We want neosd to make a CPS A+B combo for a reason: Capcom A boards are all dying. A lot of us have been looking for a solution for years. CPS1 A boards aren't getting any younger nor any cheaper. Very common games with working A boards have doubled in price for a reason. This is why A+B solution isn't far fetched IMO. Plus, having a ready-out-of-the-box setup would prevent any installation issue (see Darksoft's CPS multi).

    Also, not all of us have the room for an arcade cab. And while some people are satisfied with emulation boxes, others would rather play on the real hardware still. I think that an all-in-one multicart version of the Capcom System Changer would make everyone happy. Appealing to both the arcade and the home console crowds should help the sales quite a bit, and no, I don't expect emulation box price nor Nintendo-like sales here (unless it's marketed as the Capcom version of the AES )
    Last edited by CORY; 10-23-2017 at 12:12 AM.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoHomeBrew View Post
    A device which connects the Neo-Geo system hardware to the internet and enables online gaming would be amazing.
    I love this idea.

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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by ekorz View Post
    You want to do FPGA? How about something that plays all the PlayStation-based arcade hardware. Boom:

    [...]
    Konami Bemani Karaoke
    Konami Bemani System 573 Analog
    Konami Bemani System 573 Digital
    Konami Bemani Twinkle
    [...]
    Konami System 573
    Konami System 573 Satellite Terminal
    [...]
    The 573 and Twinkle hardware need CD-Rom drive replacement solutions before they need an FPGA one (ditto for the Namco 246/256). Arcade-accurate timing for rhythm games is pretty much essential if you're playing on an actual machine or using arcade-style controllers.

  22. #47

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    I think the first thing that comes to mind would be an FPGA based Neo Geo system, with HDMI obviously. Options would be a system that allows people to play online (if technically possible and financially feasible) and an option to force the system to run at exactly 60hz for super smooth scrolling on modern systems.

    There could be two versions, one with cartridge slot, and another without (to bring the price down, if it helps) - both would have inbuilt NeoSD functionality.

    I wouldn't mind a system which allows me to play other arcade games such as Toki, Shadow Dancer and Ninja Gaiden, perhaps these cores would fit on the Neo Geo FPGA

    An FPGA based PolyMega sort of device for arcades would be interesting.

    I know a lot of people here are only interested in real original hardware (nothing wrong with that), but as discussed further up, some of this is getting harder to get and is becoming flakey due to age. Also, brand new hardware in FPGA form can be mass produced bringing down prices, hopefully helping TerraOnion to stay afloat, after all, if we need them to create the most niche projects for us, development has to be sustained via a number of more commercially viable products.
    Last edited by Nostromo; 10-23-2017 at 01:07 AM.

  23. #48
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    Naomi flashcart? Throwing that one in there. Syn mentioned Atomiswave already.
    Guess there has to be a reasonable amount of synergy there.

  24. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by nam9 View Post
    Naomi flashcart? Throwing that one in there. Syn mentioned Atomiswave already.
    Guess there has to be a reasonable amount of synergy there.
    A Dreamcast to Naomi upgrade kit?

    I think I'm getting carried away now.

  25. #50
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    Fagit with hdmi output?
    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    This place is a pool of toxic garbage. A bunch of old, grumpy, hateful, negative, hater assholes that don't even play Neo Geo.

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