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  1. #1
    Krauser's Shoe Shiner

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    SNK VS CAPCOM technical quality

    I often hear people talk about the super high quality of animations that 3rd strike has and in general about the level of quality the Capcom in general has.

    People talk about how much more powerful the cps2/3 are than the neogeo. I question though is there any merit to that. Yes I get that the cps3 surely is more powerful and has better colors but I don't feel like Capcom ever proved anything with the better hardware.

    The biggest area I'd like to point this out is in animations. Not character animations though. Background. All SNK later neogeo games seem to have so much movement and animation in the backgrounds. Crowds moving, flowing water, wild wife etc. Everything that Capcom has are static pictures. 3rd strike is super boring when say compared to Garou, Last Blades and hell even SVC:C.

    Am I the only one who thinks SNK was vastly superior at animations?

  2. #2
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    SNK's backgrounds in many instances have been more artistic in nature you could say, there's more attention to detail but that doesn't really equate to being better animators. I think there are quite a few links in the chain when it concerns design and development of a game, perhaps they were going for a different style? you may never know.



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  3. #3
    Guerilla Warrior

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    There's been lots of chatter about this in the past. Here's an old thread with a lot of the backgrounds from different games. I believe a lot of bitching was on there.

    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...age+animations

  4. #4
    Krauser's Shoe Shiner

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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    SNK's backgrounds in many instances have been more artistic in nature you could say, there's more attention to detail but that doesn't really equate to being better animators. I think there are quite a few links in the chain when it concerns design and development of a game, perhaps they were going for a different style? you may never know.
    What i'm saying is a lot of Capcom backgrounds are static and have nothing going on even if they're highly detailed and using a system with better color.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysselcneogeo View Post
    What i'm saying is a lot of Capcom backgrounds are static and have nothing going on even if they're highly detailed and using a system with better color.
    Style?



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    JammaNationX
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    Compare Capcom's Street Fighter 3S (CPS3(64bit)) to SNK's MOTW (NeoGeo(16bit)). You can see how much SNK really knew their hardware and knew how to push it. If SNK had the CPS3 hardware, you'd see some serious shit once they hit their groove.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xian Xi View Post
    Compare Capcom's Street Fighter 3S (CPS3(64bit)) to SNK's MOTW (NeoGeo(16bit)). You can see how much SNK really knew their hardware and knew how to push it. If SNK had the CPS3 hardware, you'd see some serious shit once they hit their groove.
    Yeah thats my point. MOTW in every way impresses me more than 3rd strike accept maybe the sound track and its on hardware thats vastly weaker.

    FeSYDlT.gif
    3rd strike

    garou-markofthewolves-background-gato2.gif
    MOTW
    Last edited by ysselcneogeo; 09-27-2017 at 10:12 PM.

  8. #8
    Another Striker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xian Xi View Post
    Compare Capcom's Street Fighter 3S (CPS3(64bit)) to SNK's MOTW (NeoGeo(16bit)). You can see how much SNK really knew their hardware and knew how to push it. If SNK had the CPS3 hardware, you'd see some serious shit once they hit their groove.
    Ask me about Street Fighter 3's music and backgrounds, and you'll always get the same answer. New Generatio rules. Comparing 3rd Strike against SNKs Neo Geo titles is a bad idea. 3rd Strike's backgrounds seem rushed in general. They're extremely inconsistent. Some of them are touched up renders, some look like concept art that was simply digitized, and some are genuine pixel-art.

    Now take a look at New Generation. In many cases, it's proper pixel-art. Even if these were digitized, they got the pixel-art treatment, unlike those blurry 3rd Strike stages.

    I guess this is what happens when you're doing "new everything" for the third game. 2nd Impact came in late '97 and 3rd Strike was released in the first quarter of '99. Maybe they didn't have enough time to give this one the attention it required. Who knows. I don't know that much about 3rd Strike's development timeline. What I do know is that these blurry backgrounds always bugged me and I thought they were a major step back from New Generation. 2nd Impact doesn't really count since most of the stages were color swapped versions of the original ones. I mean ... This is New Generation:

    glade.png

    ... and this is 3rd Strike:

    3rdstrikeremystage.png

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ysselcneogeo View Post
    wild wife etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    quite a few links in the chain
    wild life

    weak links (or kinks)

    hmm...

  10. #10
    Kula's Candy
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    Also take into consideration that almost any CPS2 fighting game stage with a modicum of animation is hated by the players for introducing lag
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    Chang's Grocer

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    Quote Originally Posted by ysselcneogeo View Post
    All SNK later neogeo games seem to have so much movement and animation in the backgrounds. Crowds moving, flowing water, wild wife etc. Everything that Capcom has are static pictures. 3rd strike is super boring when say compared to Garou, Last Blades and hell even SVC:C.
    Yeah, SNK backgrounds. Animation is a part of it, but mostly SNK has a trademark on designing backgrounds with depth of focus, a sculptural perspective that is unmatched, like the Korea Stage in KoF '96. The ancient Hollywood studio policy demanded to create the most possible three dimensional frames, to suck in their audiences. Hell, even their logos emphasized this fact, just look at the sculptural WB of 20th Century emblems.

    Part of why it's working so well is, that those backgrounds are less comic-like, as opposed to Capcom's style, but more realistic with mostly exact proportions and accurate depictions of country-specific landscapes. Following the rules of genius loci, they created their own unique background style, that I prefer out of any other.

    Think of the two- and later even three lane concepts for their flagship, the Fatal Fury series. They always starved for depth within the 2D worlds.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclaude View Post
    Following the rules of genius loci



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  13. #13
    Chang's Grocer

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    Quote Originally Posted by lachlan View Post
    Hey, I simply love Lacaton et Vassal: 90% of what you need, you'll find on site. The Osaka BG in '98 is a splendid example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oliverclaude View Post
    Hey, I simply love Lacaton et Vassal: 90% of what you need, you'll find on site. The Osaka BG in '98 is a splendid example.
    Couldn't agree more, Neo Geo Land in '95 also comes to mind. Plenty of other examples within the library too.



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  15. #15
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    Kof '99 is another fighter on the neo geo that had some good backgrounds as well.
    kof99 rain.gif

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    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...ounds-animated

    edit: goddamn shame all of Mugicha's links are photobucket dead now
    Last edited by LoneSage; 10-01-2017 at 08:13 AM.

  17. #17
    Geese's Thug
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    Kabuki Klash is another game that had some pretty great backgrounds as well.
    kinos stage.gif
    tsunade's stage.gif

  18. #18
    Another Striker
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    Well ... Looks like someone has to post some Capcom stuff to counter that Neo Geo goodness. Too bad fully animated backgrounds from Capcom's games seem hard to find. Here's some Street Fighter Zero 3, which in my opinion has superb stages:

    Adon-SFA3-Stage.gif
    Birdie-SFA3-Stage.gif
    Blanka-SFA3-Stage.gif
    Dan-SFA3-Stage.gif
    E.Honda-SFA3-Stage.gif
    Guy-SFA3-Stage.gif
    Karin-SFA3-Stage.gif
    R.Mika-SFA3-Stage.gif
    Sodom-SFA3-Stage.gif
    Zangief-SFA3-Stage.gif

    Quote Originally Posted by ysselcneogeo View Post
    People talk about how much more powerful the cps2/3 are than the neogeo. I question though is there any merit to that. Yes I get that the cps3 surely is more powerful and has better colors but I don't feel like Capcom ever proved anything with the better hardware.
    There's no denying that Capcom's backgrounds feel static in comparison to SNK's, but I think this is in part due to the sheer number of SNK backgrounds to choose from. On one side, you have Street Fighter II and all of its revisions, and on the other, you have the yearly releases in the King of Fighters series, all of which had backgrounds done from scratch. Capcom can do background animations, but for some reason they don't make that a priority. Maybe because they feel it's distracting? I've seen enough SF tournaments during which fights mostly took place on the graph paper stage to think this may actually be true.

    While I absolutely adore those extremely busy stages in KoF '94, I can see someone at Capcom thinking they're a bit much in a fighting game, since every inch of the screen is vibrating with activity. On the other hand, this is SNK showing their insane skill in the pixel-art department. If Capcom felt they were throwing this in their face, they could probably match it, if not on CPS, then on CPS2, but they went for colour count and resolution with CPS2 and for smooth sprite animations with CPS3. Also, backgrounds on CPS3 are pretty massive in New Generation. You can only see a portion of them during the fights, unless it's some sort of dragon punch meets super art kind of deal, when you do some serious air. But even with that in mind, looking at background rips, I don't think I've ever seen the upper most parts of stages during fights.

    Ok. I can't help myself. Here's some KoF 94 gold:

    kof9401.gif
    kof9402.gif

  19. #19
    Cham Cham's Banana

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    Capcom backgrounds just do nothing for me personally. I also hate the way they distort the perspective and overuse pastel colours leading to a washed out bland appearance. Compared to the SNK backgrounds they are nowhere near.

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    Can you really beat these?







    Last edited by lachlan; 10-08-2017 at 07:41 AM.



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    Need I continue?
    Last edited by lachlan; 10-08-2017 at 07:42 AM.



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