White nationalists marching on UVa...

NexusX

NexusX

Astra Superstar
wyo said:
You are completely bypassing the fact that many of these statues and monuments were not erected to honor the past. They were implicitly intended as a thumb in the eye of the civil rights movement and to make sure "niggers" knew their place as second class citizens in the eyes of the law.
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Its not about having to "honor the past". It is about remembering why they were erected to begin with. Regardless about WHAT the reason for the creation for them was.... it is about destroying that history and information. Lets take the stance that they were erected as " a thumb in the eye of the civil rights movement". Now that those are taken down your are tearing down history (including the history as to why they were erected) and people will forget that it took place in the first place therefore cheapening the context of civil rights.
I will ask again... Why doesn't ROME or ANY OTHER city tear down historical statues and monuments designed to be a reminder of superiority of their day?

1. It is part of history and you should not sweep it under the rug.
2. Having those things there keeps the rights (and wrongs) of society in the mindset of its people.
 
NexusX

NexusX

Astra Superstar
SML said:
I want you to explain why memory depends on monuments, for a start.

Hope you're doing okay in Houston. I used to live in Independence Heights.
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Memories?... No
Reminders?...Yes

Any thing can simply be written down and recorded but as the average person walking down the street drinking a cup of coffee what do you think is more impactful?

1 Words written in a textbook.
or
2. A giant statue or monument that dwarfs you as a person and makes you think "why did the people of the day take such effort in building this?".

How often do you see words in a textbook over your daily landmarks in your community? So what provokes more thought and reminders of the past to put into real world context for you to touch?


As far as Houston goes...
Houstonians are strong. We get knocked down then we get up, dust ourselves off, get to the work of fixing what is broken. The communities all over the city are helping each other where needed. Thank you for asking.
 
smokehouse

smokehouse

I was Born This Ugly.,
15 Year Member
norton9478 said:
The point was that Islamist Extremists ARE RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS*






*With very, very very few exceptions.
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I was going to say...pretty much any religious extremist would fall under the category of "far-right wing"...wouldn't they?

Not too much accepting or liberal about an Islamist extremist.
 
L

LegoSlug

Over Top Auto Mechanic
EVLNEOGEO said:
Well that's straight up incorrect, look at the statistics that involve Muslim extremists worldwide vs any of form of extremism stemming from any other ideology again worldwide, Islam leads the way.

Article here and source data is available.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/450-of-452-suicide-attacks-in-2015-were-by-muslim-extremists-study-shows/
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LOL times of israel, did you read the article. I'm gonna go ahead and quote:

"Which terror attacks we define as suicide attacks and which we do not. My own definition includes all terror attacks that were perpetrated by a suicide bomber who carried explosive material on his person or on a mobile platform. They are planted inside or sent to the targets, and their certain deaths define them as suicides. In other words, the definition does not include 壮acrifice attacks of various kinds, or people wielding knives or scissors.

Very specific definition, rules out a lot of attacks perpetrated by other groups. It would be like saying, japanese people lead the way in committing harikiri study finds.

Not saying that islamic terrorist do not lead the way, after all islam is the worlds largest religion. I would expect it all things being equal. Just saying the data is greatly skewed by its own definition of what is considered a terror attack.
 
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norton9478

norton9478

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20 Year Member
Can someone tell me why Balitmore would have a monument of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson? Neither had any real ties to Maryland. Maryland was officially neutral but Union Occupied territory during the Civil War. But yet, they have/had a statue of Jackson and Lee. Why?


EVLNEOGEO said:
We had a similar 180 in the UK recently, we had Corbyn, he was not willing to out right denounce the IRA bombings and just condemned acts of terror, he was hailed as a peace warrior! Trump does the same and people point calling him a Nazi.
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We have Peter King who provide support to the IRA but freaks out about terrorism all the time.

smokehouse said:
I was going to say...pretty much any religious extremist would fall under the category of "far-right wing"...wouldn't they?

Not too much accepting or liberal about an Islamist extremist.
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There are (or have been) plenty of left wing religious extremist and/or militant groups. But not nearly as many. Jim Jones, A band Of Marxist Islamist in the Philippines.
 
norton9478

norton9478

So Many Posts
No Time
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20 Year Member
NexusX said:
Its not about having to "honor the past". It is about remembering why they were erected to begin with. Regardless about WHAT the reason for the creation for them was.... it is about destroying that history and information. Lets take the stance that they were erected as " a thumb in the eye of the civil rights movement". Now that those are taken down your are tearing down history (including the history as to why they were erected) and people will forget that it took place in the first place therefore cheapening the context of civil rights.
I will ask again... Why doesn't ROME or ANY OTHER city tear down historical statues and monuments designed to be a reminder of superiority of their day?

1. It is part of history and you should not sweep it under the rug.
2. Having those things there keeps the rights (and wrongs) of society in the mindset of its people.
Click to expand...

200.webp
 
evil wasabi

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
norton9478 said:
Can someone tell me why Balitmore would have a monument of Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson? Neither had any real ties to Maryland. Maryland was officially neutral but Union Occupied territory during the Civil War. But yet, they have/had a statue of Jackson and Lee. Why?
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Mayor Rawlings-Blake directed that interpretative plaques be placed in front of all of the monuments. The plaques were installed December 3, 2016. The interpretative plaque installed in front of the Lee Jackson Monument states the following:
​
RECONCILING HISTORY
Baltimore's Confederate Monuments
​
Lee Jackson Monument
​
This monument was a gift from prominent Baltimore banker J. Henry Ferguson, who left funds in his will for the City of Baltimore to create a monument to his childhood heroes, Robert E. Lee and Thomas J. “Stonewall” Jackson. Ferguson died in 1928, but due to the Great Depression and World War II, the monument was not dedicated until 1948.

Sculpted by Laura Gardin Fraser, this rare double equestrian monument depicts Lee and Jackson departing for the Battle of Chancellorsville, in Virginia. These two men became subjects of the Lost Cause movement which portrayed them as Christian soldiers and even as men who opposed slavery. Today current scholarship refutes these claims. These larger-than-life representations of Lee and Jackson helped perpetuate the Lost Cause ideology, which advocated for white supremacy, portrayed slavery as benign and justified secession.

In the same period that this monument was installed, Baltimore City continued to enforce racial segregation housing ordinances and deed covenants, continued to support segregation policies in public spaces and programs, and unequally funded African American school budgets, infrastructure improvements, and public programs.
In 2015, Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake appointed a Special Commission to Review Baltimore’s Public Confederate Monuments to provide recommendations based on informed decisions and citizen input on how to address Baltimore’s monuments that honor the Confederacy and the Lost Cause movement. This Commission concluded that this monument was part of a movement to perpetuate the beliefs of white supremacy, falsify history, and support segregation and racial intimidation.

This plaque serves to inform the public on the history of Baltimore's Confederate monuments. For more information, please review the Special Commission to Review Baltimore's Public Confederate Monuments Report to Mayor Rawlings-Blake located at www.chap.baltimorecity.gov
​
Click to expand...
.
 
evil wasabi

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
NexusX said:
1. It is part of history and you should not sweep it under the rug.
2. Having those things there keeps the rights (and wrongs) of society in the mindset of its people.
Click to expand...

Why not put down your tiki torch and build a statue of Hitler, because you want to remind people not only of the rights, but also the wrongs.
 
norton9478

norton9478

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20 Year Member
Keeping "Lost cause" monuments aren't about preserving history, they are about preserving public displays of Historiography. And Historiography is an academic discipline that doesn't need monuments on public display.
 
NexusX

NexusX

Astra Superstar
Evil Wasabi said:
Why not put down your tiki torch and build a statue of Hitler, because you want to remind people not only of the rights, but also the wrongs.
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Damn right I want to remind people of the wrongs as well. If you dont remember the lessons of the past you will repeat it. I am never a fan of ignoring or erasing history in the mind of people.
 
norton9478

norton9478

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20 Year Member
EVLNEOGEO said:
Its not about absolving people of responsibility, it is just that context is detrimental to a persons grasp of what slavery actually was and it's origins.
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What exactly are the origins of Slavery? I mean that shit is older than recorded history.

But Chattel Slavery?
That's a European thing.
 
norton9478

norton9478

So Many Posts
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NexusX said:
Damn right I want to remind people of the wrongs as well. If you dont remember the lessons of the past you will repeat it. I am never a fan of ignoring or erasing history in the mind of people.
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The entire function of the Lost Cause movement was to erase history.

Why didn't Longstreet get any monuments? Because the white supremacists blamed him for the loss of the war.
 
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M

Marek

Banned
NexusX said:
1. You really want me to go into detail of Sherman's March?

2. We don't learn from history because we forget it.
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Whatever, Texas noob.

I'm from Tennessee and I could join the sons of the confederacy if I felt like it.

You're wrong for one simple reason. You say by tearing down statues of slavers and militant racists we're doomed to forget history.

How about the ensuing riots, first degree murder, social unrest, ET FUCKING CETERA? Are we gonna forget about that, fuckhead?

Sorry about your city. I really am. And I'm sorry about your state being an anti intellectual racist cesspool,just like Tennessee. But you're playing into their hand bigly.
 
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sylvie

sylvie

NG.COM TEMPTRESS
20 Year Member
i would just like to add that we aren't fucking cavemen and we are no longer limited to seeing stone figures and fingerpaintings on cave walls in order to "remember and honor our history no matter whut *spitoon*"

stupid hillbilly fuck

you can literally go and archive tons of photos and articles and textbook scans about it, upload it to a $20 android tablet, turn it off, and put it in a box so you can read it in your bomb shelter when Donald Trump hits the big red button or whatever
 
norton9478

norton9478

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Poppy said:
Sorry about your city. I really am. And I'm sorry about your state being an anti intellectual racist cesspool,just like Tennessee. But you're playing into their hand bigly.
Click to expand...

There's always Austin.
 
evil wasabi

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Poppy said:
Whatever, Texas noob.

I'm from Tennessee and I could join the sons of the confederacy if I felt like it.

You're wrong for one simple reason. You say by tearing down statues of slavers and militant racists we're doomed to forget history.

How about the ensuing riots, first degree murder, social unrest, ET FUCKING CETERA? Are we gonna forget about that, fuckhead?

Sorry about your city. I really am. And I'm sorry about your state being an anti intellectual racist cesspool,just like Tennessee. But you're playing into their hand bigly.
Click to expand...

If I wanted to, I could join the sons of the confederacy as well. I can also join sons of the american revolution. Seriously.

But I have been too busy with the 40 dust club lately.
 
NexusX

NexusX

Astra Superstar
Poppy said:
How about the ensuing riots, first degree murder, social unrest, ET FUCKING CETERA? Are we gonna forget about that, fuckhead?
Click to expand...

Yes... all those things you listed will probably be forgotten and left in a dusty textbook in a generation or two. Gone from the daily reminders of the past from the public those actions from the past will fade into obscurity in the public mind. I have already stated that I don't care WHY the statues and monuments were erected. Good, bad, it doesn't matter. The point that is being made is that they are physical reminders of the thoughts and mindsets of the people that came before us, and we can move forward seeing the rights and wrongs of those people. I don't want to go down the path of Germany where any mention of Natzis is taboo and downright illegal in some cases. We must be reminded that our past actions DID happen. We should not be shamed into not talking about it like it's some taboo to say that people before us lived by those views and lifestyle. They are reminders of what we were not what we are. So we move forward with the reminders and mindset to improve our society better than the last... but not erase its physical existance of those things.
 
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M

Marek

Banned
You're fucking retarded.

I'm pretty sure the Nazi's haven't been forgotten by anyone.

And I agree that Germany and England are fucking garbage states with no access to guns or free speech. But you're still wrong.
 
evil wasabi

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
NexusX said:
Yes... all those things you listed will probably be forgotten and left in a dusty textbook in a generation or two. Gone from the daily reminders of the past from the public those actions from the past will fade into obscurity in the public mind. I have already stated that I don't care WHY the statues and monuments were erected. Good, bad, it doesn't matter. The point that is being made is that they are physical reminders of the thoughts and mindsets of the people that came before us, and we can move forward seeing the rights and wrongs of those people. I don't want to go down the path of Germany where any mention of Natzis is taboo and downright illegal in some cases. We must be reminded that our past actions DID happen. We should not be shamed into not talking about it like it's some taboo to say that people before us lived by those views and lifestyle. They are reminders of what we were not what we are. So we move forward with the reminders and mindset to improve our society better than the last... but not erase its physical existance of those things.
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Does not sompute.

Leaving statues of white supremacists along the south does not compel whites to be better but to sympathize with the mentality and possibly adopt the mentality that slave owning was fine, that the rape and degradation of blacks was okay.
 
M

Marek

Banned
Can't spell or punctuate. Doesn't use paragraphs.

Texas public schools? Or private evangelical education?

Hard to guess.
 
NexusX

NexusX

Astra Superstar
Poppy said:
Can't spell or punctuate. Doesn't use paragraphs.

Texas public schools? Or private evangelical education?

Hard to guess.
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So I guess you have no other counter argument other than grammar problems on an internet forum? Such deep thought from you...
 
CaseyTappy

CaseyTappy

Tung's Hair Stylist
“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”


― George Orwell, 1984
 
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