Which one is the boot?

[massimiliano]

Find n. 1 "Game A"
DSC00144.jpg

Find n.2 "Game B"
DSC00146.jpg

you tell me..

I know which is which,I just want to understand the reaction from other members facing this situation, as I see these getting better and better.. let's talk about it and please, of course, explain your train of thought behind your choice.

(sorry if the pic is not good, but for the sake of the conversation, let's say this could be the quality of pics you get from an hypothetical seller)

Edit:

as mentioned later in the thread, they are *both* genuine SNK PCBs but one (or both? or none?) has been used to make a proto conversion!

[madman]

Top one would be my guess.

[ShootTheCore]

I think the top board is the fake. I remember blue-covered test points when troubleshooting my legit glitching Metal Slug 5 cart.

EDIT: I meant to say the bottom board is the fake. The legit board has the blue test points. Also, the surface texture looks strange on the bottom board - especially on the top of the photo.

[julencin2000]

A is fake, I don't like the looks of the board itself.

[massimiliano]

Should I add 3rd and 4th poll options, both fake, both legit?

I'd like to get a technical explanation, as I understand it's easy to fall into a "you know I'm gonna think of that, so you tricked me on purpose" etc..

IMG_3504.JPG

[massimiliano]

I think the top board is the fake. I remember blue-covered test points when troubleshooting my legit glitching Metal Slug 5 cart.

EDIT: I meant to say the bottom board is the fake. The legit board has the blue test points. Also, the surface texture looks strange on the bottom board - especially on the top of the photo.

Thanks, I was about to ask indeed, now I understand what you meant.

[massimiliano]

A is fake, I don't like the looks of the board itself.

... what's wrong with it?

Edit:

sorry if maybe I have been not completely clear, here a hint, they are *both* genuine SNK PCBs.

[julencin2000]

OMG It's a trap!

[ShootTheCore]

... what's wrong with it?

Edit:

sorry if maybe I have been not completely clear, here a hint, they are *both* genuine SNK PCBs.

INCONCEIVABLE!!!

And well played.

[massimiliano]

INCONCEIVABLE!!!

And well played.

wait...one (or both..or none) has been used to make proto conversion.

..battle is still on!!

[Neo Alec]

I really don't care what's on the solder side honestly. Other side could be anything, and solder could be reflowed. I call shennanigans on this. Shennanigans!

[madman]

I really don't care what's on the solder side honestly. Other side could be anything, and solder could be reflowed. I call shennanigans on this. Shennanigans!

Yeah good point, if they were flipped over and one had EPROMs it'd be quite obvious. Not sure what the goal is here.

[Liquid Snake]

We need Fakk2 here....................

[massimiliano]

Yeah good point, if they were flipped over and one had EPROMs it'd be quite obvious. Not sure what the goal is here.

Goal is getting confirmation to the point brought by neo alec:

the top board (game A) while clearly using reflow soldering, is actually an Ironclad proto, so it uses EPROMs but what if instead of (obvious indeed) EPROMs, genuine SNK ROMs would have been used?

Seeing with my eyes an industrial-grade reflow on cheap proto-conversions, makes me realize a mask ROM conversion would be a) not so uncommon as many may think b) *really*, like *really* difficult to spot, even considering jumpers etc.. unless I'm missing something, this shit has gone quite beyond being able to be assessed from pictures or even worse.

[madman]

Goal is getting confirmation to the point brought by neo alec:

the top board (game A) while clearly using reflow soldering, is actually an Ironclad proto, so it uses EPROMs but what if instead of (obvious indeed) EPROMs, genuine SNK ROMs would have been used?

Seeing with my eyes an industrial-grade reflow on cheap proto-conversions, makes me realize a mask ROM conversion would be a) not so uncommon as many may think b) *really*, like *really* difficult to spot, even considering jumpers etc.. unless I'm missing something, this shit has gone quite beyond being able to be assessed from pictures or even worse.

I still would've picked A as the soldering looked off to me.

[massimiliano]

I still would've picked A as the soldering looked off to me.

problem is, B looks even worse flux/soldering wise, and it is an SNK factory pcb...

[BlackaneseNiNjA]

problem is, B looks even worse flux/soldering wise, and it is an SNK factory pcb...

I've been keeping tabs on this thread in anticipation of what closer analysis of these boards will bring. Definitely shocked to read that about board "B". Fascinating observations. Thank you massi.

[Neo Alec]

Goal is getting confirmation to the point brought by neo alec:

the top board (game A) while clearly using reflow soldering, is actually an Ironclad proto, so it uses EPROMs but what if instead of (obvious indeed) EPROMs, genuine SNK ROMs would have been used?

Seeing with my eyes an industrial-grade reflow on cheap proto-conversions, makes me realize a mask ROM conversion would be a) not so uncommon as many may think b) *really*, like *really* difficult to spot, even considering jumpers etc.. unless I'm missing something, this shit has gone quite beyond being able to be assessed from pictures or even worse.

At this point we're splitting hairs. In the rare chance of an MVS "conversion" with real mask roms I'm not sure I'd be bothered that much.

My Irritating Maze cart has a Japanese label and resoldered roms. Not sure the history. Could have been dumped. I accept that something happened that I don't know.

[egg_sanwich]

At this point we're splitting hairs. In the rare chance of an MVS "conversion" with real mask roms I'm not sure I'd be bothered that much.

My Irritating Maze cart has a Japanese label and resoldered roms. Not sure the history. Could have been dumped. I accept that something happened that I don't know.

I think the implications of this have more to do with AES. Take Blazing Star or Pulstar (our dear friend Fakk2's game of choice) which can be had on MVS for a fraction of the cost of their AES counterparts. Quality of soldering used to be one way to identify conversions of these, but these images show that that may no longer be reliable. As printing quality improves (and people update their graphics to remove easily identifiable markers like Metal Slug 1 brick lines), conversions will become even harder to spot.

[massimiliano]

At this point we're splitting hairs. In the rare chance of an MVS "conversion" with real mask roms I'm not sure I'd be bothered that much.

My Irritating Maze cart has a Japanese label and resoldered roms. Not sure the history. Could have been dumped. I accept that something happened that I don't know.

point is (as egg_sanwich already figure out) same technique can be used to AES without issues at all.

Again, my surprise comes from havnig a cheap boot I paid 45$ on ebay, made with industrial grade soldering...one thing is theorize about it, maybe for elaborated scams cases ala Pspikes 2, another starting seeing this stuff for real for such cheap projects.

I personally declare not 100% reliable even the PCB inspection (which afflicts mostly AES I sure agree with Alec)

[Neo Alec]

Unfortinately AES has gotten to the point where you can expect stuff like this if you're in the market. Basically you either bought it back in the day before these practices were rampant, so you're sure it's authentic, otherwise you accept that it could be partially phreaked.

Easy for me to say because I'm not in the market, but I've already accepted it.

[Gyrian]

Interesting exercise. This is hard enough to peg down online from images, and these were decent quality enough compared to what's typically out there. I'm curious about how good paper might've gotten. What's most convincing or sophisticated at this point?

[xsq]

yup, the AES market is even more fucked than before. thanks for pointing this out massi.