View Poll Results: Which one is the boot?

Voters
8. You may not vote on this poll
  • Game A

    5 62.50%
  • Game B

    3 37.50%
Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Which one is the boot?

  1. #1
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809

    Which one is the boot?

    Find n. 1 "Game A"
    DSC00144.jpg

    Find n.2 "Game B"
    DSC00146.jpg

    you tell me..

    I know which is which,I just want to understand the reaction from other members facing this situation, as I see these getting better and better.. let's talk about it and please, of course, explain your train of thought behind your choice.

    (sorry if the pic is not good, but for the sake of the conversation, let's say this could be the quality of pics you get from an hypothetical seller)

    Edit:

    as mentioned later in the thread, they are *both* genuine SNK PCBs but one (or both? or none?) has been used to make a proto conversion!
    Last edited by massimiliano; 07-07-2017 at 07:37 PM.
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  2. #2
    Blame madman
    You Know You Want To.
    madman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boston

    Posts
    5,565
    Top one would be my guess.
    >

  3. #3
    Zero's Tailor
    ShootTheCore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Logan UT USA

    Posts
    700
    I think the top board is the fake. I remember blue-covered test points when troubleshooting my legit glitching Metal Slug 5 cart.

    EDIT: I meant to say the bottom board is the fake. The legit board has the blue test points. Also, the surface texture looks strange on the bottom board - especially on the top of the photo.
    Last edited by ShootTheCore; 07-07-2017 at 06:25 PM.

  4. #4
    Camel Slug
    julencin2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Spain

    Posts
    654
    A is fake, I don't like the looks of the board itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Panda View Post
    That's why this hobby is fucked. It's all about money now.

  5. #5
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809
    Should I add 3rd and 4th poll options, both fake, both legit?

    I'd like to get a technical explanation, as I understand it's easy to fall into a "you know I'm gonna think of that, so you tricked me on purpose" etc..

    IMG_3504.JPG
    Last edited by massimiliano; 07-07-2017 at 06:28 PM.
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  6. #6
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by ShootTheCore View Post
    I think the top board is the fake. I remember blue-covered test points when troubleshooting my legit glitching Metal Slug 5 cart.

    EDIT: I meant to say the bottom board is the fake. The legit board has the blue test points. Also, the surface texture looks strange on the bottom board - especially on the top of the photo.
    Thanks, I was about to ask indeed, now I understand what you meant.
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  7. #7
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by julencin2000 View Post
    A is fake, I don't like the looks of the board itself.
    ... what's wrong with it?

    Edit:

    sorry if maybe I have been not completely clear, here a hint, they are *both* genuine SNK PCBs.
    Last edited by massimiliano; 07-07-2017 at 07:04 PM.
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  8. #8
    Camel Slug
    julencin2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Spain

    Posts
    654
    OMG It's a trap!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Panda View Post
    That's why this hobby is fucked. It's all about money now.

  9. #9
    Zero's Tailor
    ShootTheCore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Logan UT USA

    Posts
    700
    Quote Originally Posted by massimiliano View Post
    ... what's wrong with it?

    Edit:

    sorry if maybe I have been not completely clear, here a hint, they are *both* genuine SNK PCBs.
    INCONCEIVABLE!!!

    And well played.

  10. #10
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by ShootTheCore View Post
    INCONCEIVABLE!!!

    And well played.
    wait...one (or both..or none) has been used to make proto conversion.

    ..battle is still on!!
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  11. #11

    Neo Alec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    USA

    Posts
    7,576
    I really don't care what's on the solder side honestly. Other side could be anything, and solder could be reflowed. I call shennanigans on this. Shennanigans!

  12. #12
    Blame madman
    You Know You Want To.
    madman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boston

    Posts
    5,565
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Alec View Post
    I really don't care what's on the solder side honestly. Other side could be anything, and solder could be reflowed. I call shennanigans on this. Shennanigans!
    Yeah good point, if they were flipped over and one had EPROMs it'd be quite obvious. Not sure what the goal is here.
    >

  13. #13
    I am untouchable Liquid Snake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Texas

    Posts
    11,194
    We need Fakk2 here....................

  14. #14
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Yeah good point, if they were flipped over and one had EPROMs it'd be quite obvious. Not sure what the goal is here.
    Goal is getting confirmation to the point brought by neo alec:

    the top board (game A) while clearly using reflow soldering, is actually an Ironclad proto, so it uses EPROMs but what if instead of (obvious indeed) EPROMs, genuine SNK ROMs would have been used?

    Seeing with my eyes an industrial-grade reflow on cheap proto-conversions, makes me realize a mask ROM conversion would be a) not so uncommon as many may think b) *really*, like *really* difficult to spot, even considering jumpers etc.. unless I'm missing something, this shit has gone quite beyond being able to be assessed from pictures or even worse.
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  15. #15
    Blame madman
    You Know You Want To.
    madman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Boston

    Posts
    5,565
    Quote Originally Posted by massimiliano View Post
    Goal is getting confirmation to the point brought by neo alec:

    the top board (game A) while clearly using reflow soldering, is actually an Ironclad proto, so it uses EPROMs but what if instead of (obvious indeed) EPROMs, genuine SNK ROMs would have been used?

    Seeing with my eyes an industrial-grade reflow on cheap proto-conversions, makes me realize a mask ROM conversion would be a) not so uncommon as many may think b) *really*, like *really* difficult to spot, even considering jumpers etc.. unless I'm missing something, this shit has gone quite beyond being able to be assessed from pictures or even worse.
    I still would've picked A as the soldering looked off to me.
    >

  16. #16
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    I still would've picked A as the soldering looked off to me.

    problem is, B looks even worse flux/soldering wise, and it is an SNK factory pcb...
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  17. #17
    Haomaru's Blade Shiner
    BlackaneseNiNjA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    サウスタウン

    Posts
    831
    Quote Originally Posted by massimiliano View Post
    problem is, B looks even worse flux/soldering wise, and it is an SNK factory pcb...
    I've been keeping tabs on this thread in anticipation of what closer analysis of these boards will bring. Definitely shocked to read that about board "B". Fascinating observations. Thank you massi.

    超えるべき奴がいる。

    北斗神拳は無敵だ。

  18. #18

    Neo Alec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    USA

    Posts
    7,576
    Quote Originally Posted by massimiliano View Post
    Goal is getting confirmation to the point brought by neo alec:

    the top board (game A) while clearly using reflow soldering, is actually an Ironclad proto, so it uses EPROMs but what if instead of (obvious indeed) EPROMs, genuine SNK ROMs would have been used?

    Seeing with my eyes an industrial-grade reflow on cheap proto-conversions, makes me realize a mask ROM conversion would be a) not so uncommon as many may think b) *really*, like *really* difficult to spot, even considering jumpers etc.. unless I'm missing something, this shit has gone quite beyond being able to be assessed from pictures or even worse.
    At this point we're splitting hairs. In the rare chance of an MVS "conversion" with real mask roms I'm not sure I'd be bothered that much.

    My Irritating Maze cart has a Japanese label and resoldered roms. Not sure the history. Could have been dumped. I accept that something happened that I don't know.

  19. #19
    Mickey's Coach
    egg_sanwich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, Canada

    Posts
    744
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Alec View Post
    At this point we're splitting hairs. In the rare chance of an MVS "conversion" with real mask roms I'm not sure I'd be bothered that much.

    My Irritating Maze cart has a Japanese label and resoldered roms. Not sure the history. Could have been dumped. I accept that something happened that I don't know.
    I think the implications of this have more to do with AES. Take Blazing Star or Pulstar (our dear friend Fakk2's game of choice) which can be had on MVS for a fraction of the cost of their AES counterparts. Quality of soldering used to be one way to identify conversions of these, but these images show that that may no longer be reliable. As printing quality improves (and people update their graphics to remove easily identifiable markers like Metal Slug 1 brick lines), conversions will become even harder to spot.

  20. #20
    ネオジオ
    massimiliano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    On the green!!

    Posts
    2,809
    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Alec View Post
    At this point we're splitting hairs. In the rare chance of an MVS "conversion" with real mask roms I'm not sure I'd be bothered that much.

    My Irritating Maze cart has a Japanese label and resoldered roms. Not sure the history. Could have been dumped. I accept that something happened that I don't know.
    point is (as egg_sanwich already figure out) same technique can be used to AES without issues at all.

    Again, my surprise comes from havnig a cheap boot I paid 45$ on ebay, made with industrial grade soldering...one thing is theorize about it, maybe for elaborated scams cases ala Pspikes 2, another starting seeing this stuff for real for such cheap projects.

    I personally declare not 100% reliable even the PCB inspection (which afflicts mostly AES I sure agree with Alec)
    Last edited by massimiliano; 07-12-2017 at 03:15 PM. Reason: typos
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  21. #21

    Neo Alec's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    USA

    Posts
    7,576
    Unfortinately AES has gotten to the point where you can expect stuff like this if you're in the market. Basically you either bought it back in the day before these practices were rampant, so you're sure it's authentic, otherwise you accept that it could be partially phreaked.

    Easy for me to say because I'm not in the market, but I've already accepted it.

  22. #22
    King's Dry Cleaner
    Gyrian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX

    Posts
    378
    Interesting exercise. This is hard enough to peg down online from images, and these were decent quality enough compared to what's typically out there. I'm curious about how good paper might've gotten. What's most convincing or sophisticated at this point?

  23. #23
    Thou Shalt Not
    Question Rot.
    xsq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Muenster, Germany

    Posts
    7,420
    yup, the AES market is even more fucked than before. thanks for pointing this out massi.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •