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  1. #1
    Calvin & Hobbes

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    Trump.... buys new Beach Front Condo... in...

    KANSAS!!!

    Muhahahahahaha

    Global Warming?... What Global Warming!

    xROTx

  2. #2
    Kraut Mod Takumaji's Avatar
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    Thankfully I have friends who live in the Austrian alps so I have my little safe space when the flood comes
    Check out my new tracks:

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  3. #3
    Yamazaki's Pupil

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    Fuck Trump for this. What a retarded joke.

  4. #4
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    I don't even know what to say about this.

    Between this and his decision to cut the Environmental Protection Agency (who I work for) budget by 30%, it's pretty clear to me he doesn't have a firm grasp on anything relating to the environment. As long as businesses can keep making a buck, that is all he cares about.

    American First! More like Profits first.
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  5. #5
    Yamazaki's Pupil

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    If I didn't know how pointless it all was, I'd be rallying behind some 'boycott US goods' campaign or something, I'm that disgusted. But it all makes no difference so whatever.

  6. #6
    . Yodd's Avatar
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    That brings up an interesting question: besides some automobiles, is made in the USA even a thing in the U.K. or Europe?
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  7. #7
    Yamazaki's Pupil

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    It isn't a huge thing now I think about it. Zippos, maglites, fast food (which isn't actually made in the US obviously) is about all I can think of. I assume most of our major US imports are industrial.

  8. #8
    . Yodd's Avatar
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    I totally wouldn't be surprised to see countries start banning imports from the US. Or attaching massive tariffs to them.

    Trump just fucked our country, again.
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  9. #9
    Critical Damage!
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    There's a reason President Obama didn't bring this to the congress. I don't think most people have read, or perhaps, don't understand the accord.

    This is not about global warming. At all. I think a lot people suspect it is.

    The rub is that this accord has ZERO accountability, ZERO enforcement and ZERO infrastructure to verify individual country reports.

    The only requirements of the accord are to: announce your individual country goals and present reports on your progress. The US, Canada, most of Europe and part of Asia would very likely set stringent regulations to meet our stated goals. This is something were very good at - regulation and red tape. This is something the up and coming fossil fuel giants are not good at.

    If there were "errors" in reporting or falsifying information - there would be whistleblowers at every level along the way. Investigating and reporting - another thing we are very good at...and another thing others are not very good at.

    Every significant big US company supported this deal - they will be the ones shaping the regulatory laws with lobbyists, they are the ones who already have staff and programs in place to deal with regulation, they are the ones who will have shaped the law for significant tax breaks, and they are the ones who will use the accord as an excuse to cut salary while not actually affecting their bottom line. In contrast, small businesses do not have any of those things and those are the folks this would absolutely crush.

    This is not a denial that we can't do things to protect the environment, to improve the environment. This is a decision to be practical. A decision to put in a system of checks and balances with actual teeth. Do you believe India or China are prepared to enact changes that slow their economies, or do you think it's more likely they would fudge their numbers? Renegotiating the accord suggests President Trump believes the latter and I tend to agree with that line of thinking. The Euros are so quick to take the brave stance and get the kudos they've forgotten the past 50 years of history with the governments of China and Russia.

    Global warming is real and we should as a country and as individuals make good and less convenient decisions with respect to the Earth, but this was a bad deal, and not just for America.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmjr25 View Post
    There's a reason President Obama didn't bring this to the congress. .
    Yep... It is because he didn't have to.

    The framework was already voted for by congress in 1992. And all items that did not comport were non-binding.
    There was no immunity to cuckoo ideas on Earth.
    Here was the reason human beings could not reject ideas because they were bad: "Ideas on Earth were badges of friendship or enmity.
    Their content didn't matter. Friends agreed with friends, in order to express friendliness. Enemies disagreed with enemies, in order to express enmity.

  11. #11
    Master Cylinder Evil Wasabi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmjr25 View Post
    This is something the up and coming fossil fuel giants are not good at.
    dude, there's something really backward about that sentence.
    All creature will die and all the things will be broken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonGohan View Post
    I didn't even talk about how you live in a shack and shit in the fucking forest.
    Quote Originally Posted by SonGohan View Post
    I mean, at least I didn't say your wife should divorce you or comment on your need to play RE while shitting or whatever else was said.

  12. #12
    Neo*Geomancer
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    Mike, your arguments are eloquent and sound reasonable but they're absolutely ridiculous.

    Are you honestly suggesting every country should be independently monitored and inspected because the agreement is some nefarious conspiracy to game the system and disadvantage American small business? Your post sounds like an RNC press release. Who, exactly, is being crushed by this?

    What's more important, "small business" or the future of mankind and the planet? The perfect is the enemy of the good. Every other signatory supports the agreement. Business supports the agreement. Religious institutions support the agreement. Scientists support the agreement. Citizens support the agreement. Only Trump and Trump apologists like you do not.

  13. #13
    drunk downunder!
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    187 different nations agreeing on something... fuck that right? bunch of chumps.



    For the tunes lovers!

  14. #14
    Sakura's Bank Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyo View Post
    Mike, your arguments are eloquent and sound reasonable but they're absolutely ridiculous.

    Are you honestly suggesting every country should be independently monitored and inspected because the agreement is some nefarious conspiracy to game the system and disadvantage American small business? Your post sounds like an RNC press release. Who, exactly, is being crushed by this?

    What's more important, "small business" or the future of mankind and the planet? The perfect is the enemy of the good. Every other signatory supports the agreement. Business supports the agreement. Religious institutions support the agreement. Scientists support the agreement. Citizens support the agreement. Only Trump and Trump apologists like you do not.
    I think he's saying the joke with this is that there's no actual enforcement for any of the countries that signed on. I agree...there's no way i'd ever trust China to not lie through their teeth. Self reporting is a joke. If this is to be done right, there needs to be actual consequences for not performing, otherwise the US and a small handful of other countries will be left doing all the heavy lifting...

    THE MADNESS!!!

  15. #15
    Yamazaki's Pupil

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahcmetal View Post
    I think he's saying the joke with this is that there's no actual enforcement for any of the countries that signed on. I agree...there's no way i'd ever trust China to not lie through their teeth. Self reporting is a joke. If this is to be done right, there needs to be actual consequences for not performing, otherwise the US and a small handful of other countries will be left doing all the heavy lifting...
    And wyo's point was yeah, but what's the alternative, do fuck all? If America can say hand on heart that they are fulfilling their end of the bargain (on terms that they, the country themselves, offered forwards as what they would do) that's the best anyone can do.

    Some will cheat, some will lie. Still have to try.

    You're not going to get every country in the world to sign up to an agreement that includes threats.

  16. #16
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    If countries determine their numbers then they could "lie" on their estimation, no?

    This sounds like company earning estimates. Companies releases their estimates for the next year/quarter, but experts release their estimates for the company as well. Some companies have a history of always beating estimates because they purposefully set them low.

    I'd be interested to see how the numbers are parsed out. There are 50 states in the USA. . . 50 countries in Europe. . . but more on point, the USA and Europe are roughly the same size in square miles. Would the USA's numbers be the same as the sum of Europe's? Or would the USA be much less because it's one country?

    While not always true, the old saying, "The solution to pollution is dilution" would be relevant, no? Whatever outputs they're measuring would be affected by their geographic concentration? So, if you have a bunch of countries closer together that are all outputting at some level, that would be worse than if those countries were further apart? And if you have a single country that meets their numbers, that wouldn't actually be good if all the outputs were concentrated in a single city, right?

    I know zilch about this stuff, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by wasabi
    I have to question your modus operandi, as you make statements about personal edification but choose to serve others in rather menial jobs. What would be to stop you from building the education to work a market to your advantage and provide your family with some kind of security? You're a pretty well read man. Don't tell me that you would rather work for small change and read spy novels than live the lives you read about. There's a time to move from fantasy into real life.
    Motivation.

  17. #17
    Sakura's Bank Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNK View Post
    And wyo's point was yeah, but what's the alternative, do fuck all? If America can say hand on heart that they are fulfilling their end of the bargain (on terms that they, the country themselves, offered forwards as what they would do) that's the best anyone can do.

    Some will cheat, some will lie. Still have to try.

    You're not going to get every country in the world to sign up to an agreement that includes threats.
    If this is *truly* an immediate global threat...and I mean truly...then we all have the exact same interest in solving the problem. And yes, any country that actively doesn't participate yet reaps the benefits of the rest of the world slowing their economies down for the greater good should absolutely be punished.

    Seeing as how the Paris agreement...is voluntary and *self policed* by countries with histories of playing by their own rules...the whole thing is completely laughable. What's the point of the agreement? There's no accountability. That kind of suggests the problem isn't an imminent threat if the topic isn't even worth enforcing. The Paris Accord is treating the topic of global warming with zero respect, if it's not worth enforcing...it's pretty hard to take seriously.
    Last edited by ahcmetal; 06-02-2017 at 05:58 PM.

    THE MADNESS!!!

  18. #18
    Yamazaki's Pupil

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahcmetal View Post
    If this is *truly* an immediate global threat...and I mean truly...then we all have the exact same interest in solving the problem. And yes, any country that actively doesn't participate yet reaps the benefits of the rest of the world slowing their economies down for the greater good should absolutely be punished.

    Seeing as how the Paris agreement...is voluntary and *self policed* by countries with histories of playing by their own rules...the whole thing is completely laughable. What's the point of the agreement? There's no accountability. That kind of suggests the problem isn't an imminent threat if the topic isn't even worth enforcing. The Paris Accord is treating the topic of global warming with zero respect, if it's not worth enforcing...it's pretty hard to take seriously.
    *truly* an immediate global threat in who's eyes? Scientists? Politicians? Average Joe?

    Who would you like to take it seriously and how? If Britain threatens to nuke France if it doesn't recycle pringles tubes would global warming become more believable?

    What do you want to happen?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNK View Post
    *truly* an immediate global threat in who's eyes? Scientists? Politicians? Average Joe?

    Who would you like to take it seriously and how? If Britain threatens to nuke France if it doesn't recycle pringles tubes would global warming become more believable?

    What do you want to happen?
    Half the political spectrum is melting down today. If global warming is as big of a threat as some have been claiming it to be for the last few decades...then we all deserve everybody you listed to take this extremely seriously. Obama was nearly sainted after putting his name to that document, and that document means about as much as a middle school winter coat drive initiative. "Yeahhhh...there's a problem, people need coats, if you'd like to participate that's cool, if not...that's cool too, you won't get in trouble, it's voluntary anyways..."

    It's absolutely insane that's the best they could do while crafting this document, especially given how big of a fuss they've been making about the topic for years now. This was the time world leaders had to take the issue head on and we got a volunteer sign up sheet. Here we are, number 1 and 2 in carbon emissions, the USA and China...and the rest of the world expects us to wager our jobs/industry/economic growth against...China's good word that they'll play fair. Along with every other country on that list??

    LAUGHABLE.

    Basically, if you're a person who truly believes we are the cause *and* we are the solution to global warming...don't bother being pissed at Trump, you should have been pissed off a year ago when the best you got was that hollow agreement.
    Last edited by ahcmetal; 06-02-2017 at 07:38 PM.

    THE MADNESS!!!

  20. #20
    Yamazaki's Pupil

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    Quote Originally Posted by ahcmetal View Post
    Half the political spectrum is melting down today. If global warming is as big of a threat as some have been claiming it to be for the last few decades...then we all deserve everybody you listed to take this extremely seriously.
    I agree. I listed you, so.... do you?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahcmetal View Post
    Obama was nearly sainted after putting his name to that document, and that document means about as much as a middle school winter coat drive initiative. "Yeahhhh...there's a problem, people need coats, if you'd like to participate that's cool, if not...that's cool too, you won't get in trouble, it's voluntary anyways..."
    Do you reckon winter coat drive initiatives generate any winter coats?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahcmetal View Post
    It's absolutely insane that's the best they could do while crafting this document, especially given how big of a fuss they've been making about the topic for years now. This was the time world leaders had to take the issue head on and we got a volunteer sign up sheet. Here we are, number 1 and 2 in carbon emissions, the USA and China...and the rest of the world expects us to wager our jobs/industry/economic growth against...China's good word that they'll play fair. Along with every other country on that list??

    LAUGHABLE.
    Are you using the good word of the West as some kind of moral high ground here? Are you for real?

    Quote Originally Posted by ahcmetal View Post
    Basically, if you're a person who truly believes we are the cause *and* we are the solution to global warming...don't bother being pissed at Trump, you should have been pissed off a year ago when the best you got was that hollow agreement.
    The agreement is only as hollow as the number of winter coats it does or doesn't generate.

    Notice of intention can be a powerful thing. Would you expect your missus to be fucking other men more when you were married, or when she'd just divorced you?

  21. #21
    Neo*Geomancer
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    Every negative argument in this thread is fucking ignorant and contrarian. When you have an agreement with over 100 countries agreeing, of course it's never going to be perfect, or even close to it. Let's hear some alternative ideas other than doing fuck all. Still waiting to hear what Murican small businesses will be ruined as well.
    Last edited by wyo; 06-02-2017 at 08:36 PM.

  22. #22
    Long Dong Silver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyo View Post
    Every negative argument in this thread is fucking ignorant and contrarian. When you have an agreement with over 100 countries agreeing, of course it's never going to be perfect, or even close to it. Let's hear some alternative ideas other than doing fuck all. Still waiting to hear what Murican small businesses will be ruined as well.
    But..but...all the coal miners. How will they afford their Oxys?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveNK View Post
    I agree. I listed you, so.... do you?

    Do you reckon winter coat drive initiatives generate any winter coats?

    Some, on a volunteer basis...point being its voluntary because it's not actually important enough to be mandatory...that was the comparison...

    Are you using the good word of the West as some kind of moral high ground here? Are you for real?

    The agreement is only as hollow as the number of winter coats it does or doesn't generate.

    Notice of intention can be a powerful thing. Would you expect your missus to be fucking other men more when you were married, or when she'd just divorced you?
    Currently I'm not terribly concerned with it.

    Some, on a volunteer basis...point being its voluntary because it's not actually important enough to be mandatory...that was the comparison...

    Morals...don't apply here, it's politics and business. It was a hustle from the start, China's not gonna play fair and shoot itself in the foot economically if they don't have to.

    It's hollow because it's not a *binding* agreement. No penalty for failure.

    If climate change is really as important as the media says it is, it really deserves more than *intentions* on paper.
    Last edited by ahcmetal; 06-02-2017 at 10:45 PM.

    THE MADNESS!!!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahcmetal View Post

    Morals...don't apply here, it's politics and business. It was a hustle from the start, China's not gonna play fair and shoot itself in the foot economically if they don't have to.

    It's hollow because it's not a *binding* agreement. No penalty for failure.

    If climate change is really as important as the media says it is, it really deserves more than *intentions* on paper.
    First, I find this a tremendously cynical view. If other countries in fact fail to carry out their promises, then we can look at the consequences. Getting preemptively punitive doesn't help. You need to start with the assumption that you can and will work together.

    On top of that, how do you expect to reach a binding, enforceable agreement if you can't even declare your intentions to address the problem together? You have to start somewhere - and we had started. There's only going to be more collaboration here in the future, as China and India continue to suffer the effects of pollution and gain the means to do something about it. But now, we've shot ourselves in the foot, declaring that we're not interested in solving the problem but would rather bicker about protectionism.

    The real pain will happen when the rest of the world begins enforcing emissions rules in their trade deals, and the US is a decade or more behind in having the technology and accounting practices to comply.

    (Time to start telling everyone I'm Canadian again. )
    I turned off signatures. So should you.

  25. #25
    Bloodhound
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    give away billions and billions of dollars for literally nothing in return..

    yea wow this type of shit only makes sense to mf's w no money

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