OLD school: Fatal Fury ( . . . yes, the first one)

RyoGeo

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The original Fatal Fury is one of those games I play to just chill out. It doesn't have very good collision, or combos or [insert modern vs component here], but I love the music, and its 1990 charm. Having said that, there are moves that drive me nuts in that they seem really inconsistent to pull off.

The quarter circle moves are easy enough. Yes, you have to be very deliberate about it, and it's not very forgiving at all, but that's ok. If I miss a move I know what I did wrong, and I'm playing to chill anyway, so who cares.

The ones that bug me are the DB > FU - B moves. They seem to be either really inconsistent, or just plain wrong. For example, for Terry's Crack shoot, it says to do DB > FU - B, but that never really seems to work. I have, however, found some consistency with :hcf::upf::B:.

Ok fine, but Andy and Joe's DB > FU - B don't seem to work with those inputs, nor do they work with Terry's :hcf::upf::B:.

Can any of you guys get the Andy/Joe DB > FU - B moves to fire consistently? If so, what are your inputs?
 

HeavyMachineGoob

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Fatal Fury 1 is definitely not a game for beginners, but if you put in the effort, it's a total Neo Geo classic.

I think the real key to enjoying this game is to not think Street Fighter 2, or even Street Fighter 1. No, we must think Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!! for the NES.

Why? Consider that both games have few or only one playable character, at least one special move is available to the player, but otherwise regular attacks are needed and lastly the game consists of several non-playable "bosses" who all possess unique attacks and require special tactics in order to defeat. It's very unlike all of its sequels and Street Fighter 2 in that you cannot easily combo and you cannot apply the same tactics to each opponent. The fact that Fatal Fury lacks a proper 2 player mode, instead alternating between 2 player vs 1 computer and 1P vs 2P matches, further cements this game's decidedly non-standard design and feel.

The only real irony is I am currently without a copy of this game. What would be really nice is a loose MVS or AES copy, but shipping to Canada makes buying cheap Neo Geo games really expensive.
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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The original Fatal Fury is one of those games I play to just chill out. It doesn't have very good collision, or combos or [insert modern vs component here], but I love the music, and its 1990 charm. Having said that, there are moves that drive me nuts in that they seem really inconsistent to pull off.

The quarter circle moves are easy enough. Yes, you have to be very deliberate about it, and it's not very forgiving at all, but that's ok. If I miss a move I know what I did wrong, and I'm playing to chill anyway, so who cares.

The ones that bug me are the DB > FU - B moves. They seem to be either really inconsistent, or just plain wrong. For example, for Terry's Crack shoot, it says to do DB > FU - B, but that never really seems to work. I have, however, found some consistency with :hcf::upf::B:.

Ok fine, but Andy and Joe's DB > FU - B don't seem to work with those inputs, nor do they work with Terry's :hcf::upf::B:.

Can any of you guys get the Andy/Joe DB > FU - B moves to fire consistently? If so, what are your inputs?

Fatal Fury 1 was the first neo geo games I ever played and will always be one of my favorites. The inputs are indeed strict. To consistantly pull off moves I find myself performing more of a flicking motion with the joystick to consistently pull off moves rather than a smooth continuous motion like in the street fighter II games.

To consistently perform Andy's Kuhadan I hold db then perform a kind of forward to up quarter circle motion. I let the joystick go neutral for a fraction of a second after the initial db input.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that, of course, since we are dealing with arcade inputs, there is no such thing as true diagonals since the 8-way directional inputs are really achieved via the combinations of the 4 microswitches of the joystick. The unique "feel" of the inputs of fatal fury 1 seems to draw more attention to this fact imho. The inputs are not to be performed smoothly like street fighter 2, rather they should almost feel quickly "dialed in" one input after the other. For example, rather than perform a smooth qcf motion and pressing punch as I hit the forward input of the qcf motion for Terry's Power Wave, I flick the joystick from d to f and hit punch immediately following the forward input of the qcf input.
 
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Electric Grave

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That's just love talking. FF1 was also my 1st Neo game, however once I played it I felt it was lacking, however like said before we must separate SF2 from the equation, more like a continuation of SF1 which is what AOF was essentially while FF grew more robust as a fighter where gimmicks didn't engulf the entire game unlike AOF, but IMHO it's my least favorite FF game.
 

RyoGeo

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. . . The inputs are not to be performed smoothly like street fighter 2, rather they should almost feel quickly "dialed in" one input after the other. For example, rather than perform a smooth qcf motion and pressing punch as I hit the forward input of the qcf motion for Terry's Power Wave, I flick the joystick from d to f and hit punch immediately following the forward input of the qcf input.

This is actually really interesting to read both from you and HeavyMachineGun. When I do a Power Wave, or Burn Knuckle, I actually do it EXTRA smooth, and methodically, and start from :downb: instead :down:. It's very reliable, but your comments make me want to try your method, as maybe across the diagonal (:downb:-:upf: + :B:) moves it is more dependable.

And on the nostalgia front, FF1 was one of the first Neo games I ever played as well. At the time, I wanted so much to like it more, but I just couldn't get the moves to fire at all back then (save for Andy's dash, which was a gimme). Even though I wasn't a kid (I was like 22), I just couldn't get the feel. SF2, I could do, but not FF. I've had both MVS and AES copies for more than 15 years, but didn't play them a whole lot. To be honest, from a control standpoint, the Genesis game is far superior, but it just pales in comparison in the sound and color departments. I know some folks also don't like the voice audio in FF1, but I just love it. It reminds me of the "wide" feature that used to come on stereo tape decks back in the 80's; that expansive, giant room effect. I've been playing it on my big red 4 this last week, using the headphone jack, and it's just fantastic.
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I'm old. :oh_no:
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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That's just love talking. FF1 was also my 1st Neo game, however once I played it I felt it was lacking, however like said before we must separate SF2 from the equation, more like a continuation of SF1 which is what AOF was essentially while FF grew more robust as a fighter where gimmicks didn't engulf the entire game unlike AOF, but IMHO it's my least favorite FF game.

You're right EG, there is definitely some love swaying my views a bit. It is difficult to recommend Fatal Fury 1 as a perfect game to anyone other than those who can look upon pre-street fighter 2 fighters for what they are rather than comparing them to sf2. Considering how the Fatal Fury series evolved, it would have been interesting to see how the Street Smart series could have evolved since that staff moved on to develop Fatal Fury.

...It's very reliable, but your comments make me want to try your method, as maybe across the diagonal moves it is more dependable.

And on the nostalgia front, FF1 was one of the first Neo games I ever played as well. At the time, I wanted so much to like it more, but I just couldn't get the moves to fire at all back then (save for Andy's dash, which was a gimme). Even though I wasn't a kid (I was like 22), I just couldn't get the feel. SF2, I could do, but not FF. I've had both MVS and AES copies for more than 15 years, but didn't play them a whole lot. To be honest, from a control standpoint, the Genesis game is far superior, but it just pales in comparison in the sound and color departments. I know some folks also don't like the voice audio in FF1, but I just love it. It reminds me of the "wide" feature that used to come on stereo tape decks back in the 80's; that expansive, giant room effect. I've been playing it on my big red 4 this last week, using the headphone jack, and it's just fantastic.
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I'm old. :oh_no:

I went back into the lab to really get a feel for how I was performing Andy's Kuhadan consistently and I have the following recommendation:

rather than performing :downb::upf:+:B:, try :downb::upf: then :B: (hit :B: AFTER the directional inputs rather than hitting B and UF simultaneously). Also, be mindful of the db charge time (It can be tempting to try to execute the "UF then B" part of the command without the properly held DB input first). Imagine that only one part of the command can be read at a time and you'll get the input "feel" I'm trying to convey.

I agree with you on the sega genesis port. It was my favorite port of Fatal Fury 1 back in the day rather than the snes version.
 
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Mr Bakaboy

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I have a feel for the DB, FU motion. The main thing I have to watch is going too fast doing it and the timing for finishing the motion and pushing the button. FF1 is the only game I can recall that you have a delay between the motion and the button. I use that motion a lot in FFS since I main Andy so that might be why it's not that hard for me.
 

Electric Grave

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You're right EG, there is definitely some love swaying my views a bit. It is difficult to recommend Fatal Fury 1 as a perfect game to anyone other than those who can look upon pre-street fighter 2 fighters for what they are rather than comparing them to sf2. Considering how the Fatal Fury series evolved, it would have been interesting to see how the Street Smart series could have evolved since that staff moved on to develop Fatal Fury.



I went back into the lab to really get a feel for how I was performing Andy's Kuhadan consistently and I have the following recommendation:

rather than performing :downb::upf:+:B:, try :downb::upf: then :B: (hit :B: AFTER the directional inputs rather than hitting B and UF simultaneously). Also, be mindful of the db charge time (It can be tempting to try to execute the "UF then B" part of the command without the properly held DB input first). Imagine that only one part of the command can be read at a time and you'll get the input "feel" I'm trying to convey.

I agree with you on the sega genesis port. It was my favorite port of Fatal Fury 1 back in the day rather than the snes version.

I played Street Smart before Neo, used to credit fed the shit out of it when I was a kid, early teens, good times. I often wish Street Smart had better controls, again we have to take out Final Fight out of the equation in order to appreciate street smart. Could be Jeff and young Geezer...lol.
 

RyoGeo

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Ha, "Back to the lab." I like it. I did the same last night, and applied a more digital input strategy to all my moves in general. I'm able to execute :qcf: moves MUCH faster now. I actually had near perfect success by actually pulling to the 4:30 position rather than the full quarter sweep to 3:00. My cab has Happ sticks, so I don't have the benefit of the nice neo stick corners, but again applying the deliberate, digital input strategy, and thinking of :down::downf: as two inputs, Hurricane Uppers fly faster than I've ever been able to throw them.

Also, while I am still not as consistent as I would like, I was getting some Tiger Kicks and Kuhadans as well. I still want to hone those moves, as all the diagonals sound awesome. It's more for the audio than the effectiveness, as I think we all know, they're totally not necessary to wreck the AI, but dammit if that stereo SHWEHaaaaaaaaah doesn't sound cool.
 

GutsDozer

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I remember how pissed I was as a when I got the SNES version of FF1.
 

RyoGeo

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I remember how pissed I was as a when I got the SNES version of FF1.

Holy crap, YES! What an AWFUL port. Ok, two things

1) So, I actually paid NEW import price for that piece of crap through mail order when that game was new. Christ on his cross, was it bad. I actually contacted the importer and said that it was just awful, and asked if I could exchange it. They were totally cool about it, and allowed me an exchange, which I REALLY, appreciated. I ended up just getting some Ranma 1/2 fighter and calling it a lesson learned.

2) I distinctly remember that when the Genesis and SNES versions were released simultaneously in the States, there was a magazine (I think it was EGM, but not sure, maybe Gamefan) that said the Genny version had AWFUL control, and the SNES version was far superior, which is in-fucking-sane. The backlash was so ubiquitous and vocal, they actually published a rebuttal of sorts a couple of months after the initial reviews. Of course, the reviewer stood by the original review, 'cuz he had to, but damn, how stoned can you be to think the snes version controls better than the genesis? I didn't even have a dog in the fight, as I had both systems, and both versions of the game (for a time at least), and could not fathom ever, ever calling the snes version better.

Jeebuz, I actually got a little amped up writing that, which is both stupid and kinda' awesome.
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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Holy crap, YES! What an AWFUL port. Ok, two things

1) So, I actually paid NEW import price for that piece of crap through mail order when that game was new. Christ on his cross, was it bad. I actually contacted the importer and said that it was just awful, and asked if I could exchange it. They were totally cool about it, and allowed me an exchange, which I REALLY, appreciated. I ended up just getting some Ranma 1/2 fighter and calling it a lesson learned.

2) I distinctly remember that when the Genesis and SNES versions were released simultaneously in the States, there was a magazine (I think it was EGM, but not sure, maybe Gamefan) that said the Genny version had AWFUL control, and the SNES version was far superior, which is in-fucking-sane. The backlash was so ubiquitous and vocal, they actually published a rebuttal of sorts a couple of months after the initial reviews. Of course, the reviewer stood by the original review, 'cuz he had to, but damn, how stoned can you be to think the snes version controls better than the genesis? I didn't even have a dog in the fight, as I had both systems, and both versions of the game (for a time at least), and could not fathom ever, ever calling the snes version better.

Jeebuz, I actually got a little amped up writing that, which is both stupid and kinda' awesome.

If only that reviewer was talking about the World Heroes 1 port :lolz: The tables had definitely turned with that one. The snes port was fine and the genesis port was just awful.
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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I played Street Smart before Neo, used to credit fed the shit out of it when I was a kid, early teens, good times. I often wish Street Smart had better controls, again we have to take out Final Fight out of the equation in order to appreciate street smart. Could be Jeff and young Geezer...lol.

Haha Before being exposed to more japanese reading material and backstory guides, I always thought the Street Smart protagonists were Takuma and Jeff Bogard :keke:

That is of course not true, but of course the design of player 1 from Street Smart was totally used for Takuma years later. It is interesting how franchises can develop given time. The original Mario Bros. arcade game did not set arcades ablaze, but the mechanics of stunning enemies and hitting blocks would be expanded in the nes mario titles to great success.

The Player 1 and Player 2 vs CPU mechanic in Fatal fury 1 always felt like a what-could-have-been for Street Smart 2 (especially since the Street Smart theme plays during these matches lol Good times)
 

Ip Man

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i never had any problems pulling off moves in fatal fury 1. but i have this problem with art of fighting 1. can't pull off a move in that game to save my life. the game kind of plays it self.
 

BlackaneseNiNjA

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i never had any problems pulling off moves in fatal fury 1. but i have this problem with art of fighting 1. can't pull off a move in that game to save my life. the game kind of plays it self.

Whats up Bogard. Fatal Fury 1 will indeed still read a slow deliberate but correct special input, but Art of Fighting 1 will have none of that nonsense :lolz: The special inputs in Art of Fighting 1 should be done relatively quick and, like Fatal Fury 1, Art of Fighting 1 special inputs come out reliably for me when the attack button is pressed quickly just AFTER the required directional inputs are complete.
 

Electric Grave

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Haha Before being exposed to more japanese reading material and backstory guides, I always thought the Street Smart protagonists were Takuma and Jeff Bogard :keke:

That is of course not true, but of course the design of player 1 from Street Smart was totally used for Takuma years later. It is interesting how franchises can develop given time. The original Mario Bros. arcade game did not set arcades ablaze, but the mechanics of stunning enemies and hitting blocks would be expanded in the nes mario titles to great success.

The Player 1 and Player 2 vs CPU mechanic in Fatal fury 1 always felt like a what-could-have-been for Street Smart 2 (especially since the Street Smart theme plays during these matches lol Good times)

Its the Geezer, there was a novel about Geese's rise from the bottom of south town, he was a jeans and shirt type of dude.

Incidentally, theres some official snk art in the PSX Real Bout port the shows Geese looking at a picture of him young playing with Terry ad a kid, as in Geese is good old daddy...dun dun dun!

Edit: We gotta keep in mind that Geese and Jeff are both much younger than Takuma. AOF2 shows Geese much younger than Takuma, my guess is Street Smart if in fact related to FF canon it happened before AOF2, prolly AOF1 as well due that it was only a year prior according to the timeline.
 
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BlackaneseNiNjA

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Its the Geezer, there was a novel about Geese's rise from the bottom of south town, he was a jeans and shirt type of dude.

Incidentally, theres some official snk art in the PSX Real Bout port the shows Geese looking at a picture of him young playing with Terry ad a kid, as in Geese is good old daddy...dun dun dun!

Edit: We gotta keep in mind that Geese and Jeff are both much younger than Takuma. AOF2 shows Geese much younger than Takuma, my guess is Street Smart if in fact related to FF canon it happened before AOF2, prolly AOF1 as well due that it was only a year prior according to the timeline.

Damn, it would have been cool to see SNK acknowledge Street Smart in an official timeline. Oh well, it's still fun to imagine the storyline of this crazy game lol I remember you guys discussing it a long time ago too:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?178652-Street-Smart-a-young-Takuma-and-Jeff-Bogard
 

GreyFox

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Agreed - Fatal Fury has a special place in my heart and I agree with a lot of the above comments. It definitely has a different feel and vibe to say Street Fighter 2 which was the obvious comparison at the time for many people.

I remember first seeing it when the Megadrive version was previewed (before Special Champion Edition came out and the magazines were full of "artists impressions" of how a Street Fighter 2 game on Seca's machine might look) and then suddenly this colourful, large detailed Sprite one on one fighter was being shown.

I pored over those screenshots for hours. It was mesmerising. Some kickboxer character (I would later learn called Noe Higashi) performing a move surrounded by a Tiger. This game looked epic.

I found an arcade and played it in its original form and awaited the Megadrive release - which was suprisingly good looking back. Large fluid sprites, good controls and loads of colour.

I too struggle to consistently perform some of the moves and would soon have my head turned (and my mind blown) by EGM covering Faral Fury Special and its revelation of Ryo from Art of Fighting as a hidden "Dream Match" however Faral Fury 1 remains an iconic game and one of the first I think of when thinking of early Neo Geo titles
 

CrystalCore

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Definitely. That port was horrible.

If I'm not mistaken, unlike Capcom, SNK handed most of their port work over to 3rd parties. That definitely explains why Fatal Fury's subsequent ports were so poor.
 

Electric Grave

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Are you saying FFS SNES was poor? How about FF2 Genesis?

IMHO most SNK Takara ports were actually good and stand up there with the best fighting games on the respective systems. Not so much with Samsho though, however the SNES port plays well, but it has funny small sprites. Samsho on Genesis was a bit better sprite wise but gameplay suffered. World Heroes SNES is a mixed bag, WH2 SNES is amazing! Anyway, just a couple examples.
 

Evan

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Are you saying FFS SNES was poor? How about FF2 Genesis?

IMHO most SNK Takara ports were actually good and stand up there with the best fighting games on the respective systems. Not so much with Samsho though, however the SNES port plays well, but it has funny small sprites. Samsho on Genesis was a bit better sprite wise but gameplay suffered. World Heroes SNES is a mixed bag, WH2 SNES is amazing! Anyway, just a couple examples.

World heroes 2 snes is pretty good
 

GreyFox

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I thought Art of Fighting 2, FFS and Fighters History Dynamite were all pretty impressive ports for SNES.

With regards Fatal Fury for me the time of day transitions on the stages are a big part of the charm. A really simple idea but they gonna long way to lend the stages a sense of place.
 

Neo Alec

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I often played FF1 with a pad back in the day. I would usually do, for example, tap down, then up for the moves rather than a smooth rotation. More like Mortal Kombat. I never had too many problems. What an awesome game!
 

BLEAGH

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Fatal Fury was awesome! I love the classic sound of the effects and voices on special moves. Dramatic battle mode needs to make a comeback. So does the survival mode from alpha 3 with multiple enemies, but that's off topic.

I remember losing my shit the first time I saw tung beef up. I spent forever trying to grab the ceiling in pao pao cafe too.
 
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