NEOSD MVS Support thread !

[Rot]

I have been in chat with some guys.... and we have had a nice convo...

Everything seems to be OK concerning my last post...

xROTx

PS. Best come into chat if you still need advice on how to move forward...

[JMKurtz]

How about an "output folder" option?

[poodude]

Can anyone tell me where the burningfpa rom is coming from? I have the full set of 0.179 and its the only one not included. Is it from an old deprecated romset?

[Rot]

Can anyone tell me where the burningfpa rom is coming from? I have the full set of 0.179 and its the only one not included. Is it from an old deprecated romset?

Apparently its hard to find...

EERRR... refer to my post (44)... and then come into chat when i am there...

xROTx

PS. I'd best explain my decision on this one...

neosd should've realised that not everyone is confident or competant in such matters... tool or not...

I understand why he did it this way... but I know this thread would've turned into a shitfest and I would have to clamp down on some of you guys...

This way will mean there should be less posting on the forums about such matters...

EDIT: Just incase you want to know... I did NOT create or host anything... I was given a password... which i just forward it onto you....

[AMike]

Thanks for the advise.....very helpful🙂😉.

sent from mobile device

[neosd]

How about an "output folder" option?

Hello,

We will add it on the new version.

Thanks !

[dkarDaGobert]

some kind of logfiles would also be great.
with my old rompack there were a lot missing roms
kinda annoying to write all those names instead of just copy/paste

[MattBlah]

As the boards will be exposed, at least until the shell is complete, what would people recommend to use to cover them when not in use, to protect from dust etc.? I will leave mine in my CMVS, but don't want it to be exposed, especially with two dogs running around my house.

[poodude]

I'll be putting mine in a broken multi cart shell, then into a shockbox.

[Sceptre_JLRB]

After receiving my NeoSD-MVS and some hours of testing, I'd like to report a couple of issues FYI:

1) As an additional advantage, I've noticed that backup saving system is working great for Hi-Scores and soft-DIP game options, since after using more than 8 games (the maximum number of them that the MVS board backup RAM can save) and loading a previous one, Hi-Scores and soft-DIP configuration are preserved. Moreover, the backup file generated by the NeoSD in the microSD card the first time a game is flashed also adds the previous data from such game if present in the MVS board backup RAM memory as a consecuence of having played the original cartridge. Thereby, this fact also proves that, indeed, the game flashed in the NeoSD behaves exactly as its original cartridge counterpart.

2) Regarding possible bugs, it has come to my attention that in the NeoSD menu, when applying any filter (including favorites), if whichever game is selected, the game loaded will be another one totally different. (I guess this might be due to a mismatched order number between the whole game list and the new one which is displayed when applying such filters.)

[Razoola]

You are lucky, backupRAM saving/loading did not work for me correctly given the issues I explained in the UI review section. The same will happen to you if your backupRAM erases or corrupts for any reason.

[Nostromo]

As the boards will be exposed, at least until the shell is complete, what would people recommend to use to cover them when not in use, to protect from dust etc.? I will leave mine in my CMVS, but don't want it to be exposed, especially with two dogs running around my house.

I have a spare MVS shell... if I use that, will I still have to cut a slot for the SD Card, even if I really don't need access to it (I am copying the entire rom collection on the SD Card so its staying inside there forever). Can I just close it and forget about it?

[neosd]

You are lucky, backupRAM saving/loading did not work for me correctly given the issues I explained in the UI review section. The same will happen to you if your backupRAM erases or corrupts for any reason.

Raz,

Ofcourse it dosent works for you, cause your mvs has a faulty backup ram as you have said previously.
You need a working MVS to get this working.

Thanks

[Razoola]

Yes I know I can help my situation by replacing the battery. But given how the backupRAM works even if I did that it would still be prone to corrupting/loosing the data with the NeoSD simply given the way the backupRAM is designed for the NeoGeo and how the NeoSD loads and stores the data to the sdcard.

NeoGeo backupRAM is not a SNK system for storing data months on end without daily power and it was never designed as such. If there were no multislot MVS systems made by SNK there would never be a backupRAM system on the NeoGeo, they would have used EEPROM (like CPS2). The NeoGeo system BackupRAM primary purpose is to simply store game data between game swapping on multislots, hold that data overnight and also bookeeping information. It was never designed to be used as a method to save highscores in a way users want today (between long periods on no use).

The NeoGeo does not have a battery that simply lasts 5 years. It is rechargeable and if the user does not play their neogeo very frequently the battery will cause the backupRAM to be lost or corrupt as it looses power until recharged. When that happens the NeoSD data for the current game will also be lost even if its on the sdcard given how your backupRAM loading and saving works presently.

For you to have a fullproof backupRAM storage replacement you must load/sync/save backupRAM before and on every repeat of a games attract mode sequence and save backupRAM to sdcard every time a game experiances game over. Simply doing it once at the point a game is flashed is not enough, data is going to get lost, even on systems with fully working rechargeable batteries depending on the owners usage.

[neosd]

Hello,

NeoSD software is a living software, we are adding more features right now that will be issued by firmware updates on the following weeks
We are working on a way to allow backup ram to be loaded and saved manually among other things.

As you know, what you propose (at least a part) is not possible without aid from the bios.

Thanks

Yes I know I can help my situation by replacing the battery. But given how the backupRAM works even if I did that it would still be prone to corrupting/loosing the data with the NeoSD simply given the way the backupRAM is designed for the NeoGeo and how the NeoSD loads and stores the data to the sdcard.

NeoGeo backupRAM is not a SNK system for storing data months on end without daily power and it was never designed as such. If there were no multislot MVS systems made by SNK there would never be a backupRAM system on the NeoGeo, they would have used EEPROM (like CPS2). The NeoGeo system BackupRAM primary purpose is to simply store game data between game swapping on multislots, hold that data overnight and also bookeeping information. It was never designed to be used as a method to save highscores in a way users want today (between long periods on no use).

The NeoGeo does not have a battery that simply lasts 5 years. It is rechargeable and if the user does not play their neogeo very frequently the battery will cause the backupRAM to be lost or corrupt as it looses power. When that happens the NeoSD data for the current game will also be lost even if its on the sdcard given how your backupRAM loading and saving works presently.

For you to have a fullproof backupRAM storage replacement you must load into backupRAM before and on every repeat of a games attract mode sequence and save backupRAM to sdcard every time a game experiances game over. Simply doing it once at the point a game is flashed is not enough, data is going to get lost, even on systems with fully working rechargeable batteries depending on the owners usage.

[neosd]

Hello,

We may have a bug there, let us look at it. If so, we will fix it and issue a firmware update as soon as possible.

Thanks for the report

2) Regarding possible bugs, it has come to my attention that in the NeoSD menu, when applying any filter (including favorites), if whichever game is selected, the game loaded will be another one totally different. (I guess this might be due to a mismatched order number between the whole game list and the new one which is displayed when applying such filters.)

[Razoola]

Yes I understand that and this is what is good about the NeoSD (that is it so upgradeable), I just try to explain the backupRAM situation in a factual/neutral way.

You can improove the backupRAM saving and loading on the NeoSD withouth help from the bios (bios would make it easier though). I do it with NeoGeoLand for example with no bios help. The bigger problem you face first would be getting the loading and saving of data to and from backupRAM faster than it is presently, sometimes its to slow (if the info displayed in the UI is correct) and you can't really have those long delays during the times loading and saving would need to happen.

Doing the manual loading/saving would be good until a fullproof automated solution was sorted.

[neosd]

Hello,

We will try to improve it. Good thing is that right now it works for everyone with a working MVS board, so only the ones with a faulty sram MVS board have an issue there.

Thanks

Yes I understand that and this is what is good about the NeoSD (that is it so upgradeable), I just try to explain the backupRAM situation in a factual/netrual way.

You can improove the backupRAM saving and loading on the NeoSD withouth help from the bios (bios would make it easier though). I do it with NeoGeoLand for example with no bios help. The bigger problem you face first would be getting the loading and saving of data to backupRAM faster than it is presently, sometimes its to slow (if the info displayed in the UI is correct) and you can't really have those long delays during the times loading and saving would need to happen.

Doing the manual loading/saving would be good until a fullproof automated solution was sorted.

[Razoola]

Hello,

We will try to improve it. Good thing is that right now it works for everyone with a working MVS board, so only the ones with a faulty sram MVS board have an issue there.

Thanks

That is not totally true, this is a geeky issue though that you may not fully understand yourself given how the NeoGeo works.

Its not just people like myself with faulty batteries that will have a problem. Those who do not have faults will have problems also if the battery on their MVS is not fully recharged frequently or does not retain a full charge for days/weeks on end without use. You need to be prepared for this when people start reporting problems with saves, people with 100% working boards can be affected but just not 100% of the time like people with a totally dead battery (like myself).

Your going to have to advise these people about drained battery (until recharge) can cause the NeoSD backupRAM store to reset until the system is changed in the firmware.

[dragonpt]

Thanks for the info Raz..
Didn't know that.

I guess i'll be on the same boat as you, since my main mvs system haves issues with backup ram as well ( just doesn't work) arggg

Oh well, i'll still be ordering one of this in the future...

Cheers

[neosd]

Hello,

We have discussed this and we are going to improve it, we take all your suggestions in consideration, this is an honest answer not one given to not improve it, we have listened.

We want that people understand that the issue you are having, cause your board is faulty, is the same issue that you will have with an original game on the same board.
People with a working sram and a drained battery will have the same issue on NeoSD than with an original game.

So if you ask me, its not a NeoSD issue, its a faulty sram or a working sram with drained battery issue.

Thanks

That is not totally true, this is a geeky issue though that you may not fully understand yourself given how the NeoGeo works.

Its not just people like myself with faulty batteries that will have a problem. Those who do not have faults will have problems also if the battery on their MVS is not fully recharged frequently or does not retain a full charge for days/weeks on end without use. You need to be prepared for this when people start reporting problems with saves, people with 100% working boards can be affected but just not 100% of the time like people with a totally dead battery (like myself).

Your going to have to advise these people about drained battery (until recharge) can cause the NeoSD backupRAM store to reset until the system is changed in the firmware.

[Razoola]

Yes its not a huge issue but the current implimentation is going to affect people at one time or another. Anyone with a battery issue like me (does not recharge), I would suggest to turn off the backupRAM save feature until it is updated in the future. This is defo not an issue that cannot be addressed in the future though and should not stop one buying a neoSD.

[Razoola]

Hello,

We have discussed this and we are going to improve it, we take all your suggestions in consideration, this is an honest answer not one given to not improve it, we have listened.

We want that people understand that the issue you are having, cause your board is faulty, is the same issue that you will have with an original game on the same board.
People with a working sram and a drained battery will have the same issue on NeoSD than with an original game.

So if you ask me, its not a NeoSD issue, its a faulty sram or a working sram with drained battery issue.

Thanks

Thats right though I don't think you grasp just how common battery drainage is on the NeoGeo. For sure it is not a neoSD issue but there is a problem in the way the NeoSD currently relies on the MVS rechargeable battery for its backupRAM loading and saving to sdcard to work (without good data being overwritten with bad). I know your going to improove it, I did give suggestions for that after all

I think you are making my words a little bigger than I am trying to explain, I'm not being negative in any way and its great that the issues will be addressed going forward. I think its in part because you are not fullty understanding the MVS battery is a rechargeable battery (like a mobile phone). It is designed to discharge and recharge and it discharging is not a fault like I have with my MVS (where it does not recharge at all).

Granted that when this happens regardless of NeoSD or not, data will be lost but what people may not expect to happen is data for the currently loaded game on the NeoSD to also be lost from the SDcard (because it will be overwritten under the current system).

To reproduce the issue I'm trying to highlight is really very easy;

- Get a highscore in a game
- Swap to other game so neosd stores highscrore to sd card.
- Swap back to game with highscore so its loaded into backupRAM from sd card.

(at this point there is a good backram on sdcard and backupram and all is good in the world)

- Let attract mode start and go into testmode and reset the backupram.

(this is to simulate battery discharge or backupRAM corruption as would happen with days or weeks on non use. I think everyone who has used NeoGeo can see how this situation above is not rare with fully working batteries if the neogeo is not used for a while)

- Let system reboot into the games attract mode.

(at this point the save on sdcard is still good but data in backupRAM is reset)

Now this following part is where the NeoSD will go wrong with the current system of loading and saving.

- Flash a new game onto the NeoSD.

(At this point the good data that was on the sdcard is overwritten by the bad/reset data in backupRAM)

This is what I see people will not expect the MVS battery to be causing to data held on the NeoSD SDcard. This is why I suggested as an interiem solution (before a fully working automated system is complete) to have options in the UI to force load or force save backupRAM for the selected game.

[Sceptre_JLRB]

Thanks neosd & Razoola por your detailed explanations.

In short (if I got it properly):
At this point, NeoSD backup RAM works in the same way than MVS board backup RAM, with the advantage that, instead of maximum 8 games, information can be stored for infinite ones. Should MVS board backup RAM be lost or re-formatted, NeoSD backup RAM information will be lost upon next game flashing.

[Razoola]

You got it. Although with the NeoSD you'll only loose the SDcard data for the game flashed on the NeoSD and not any other games backupRAM saved on the SDcard. Like I said its not a big issue but can affect the last flashed game when one leaves the system off for days or weeks.