MVS & AES NEOSD flash card... AES Version ANNOUNCED & AVAILABLE!!

greedostick

Obsessed Neo-Fan
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NEOSD

I can not get the payment to work. It keeps saying "DATA ERROR, please contact the merchant". I have called my bank and they said it is OK on our end.

Please Help me secure a cart.
 
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neosd

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NEOSD

I can not get the payment to work. It keeps saying "DATA ERROR, please contact the merchant". I have called my bank and they said it is OK on our end.

Please Help me secure a cart.

Hello,

Sorry for the inconvenience, check PM please.

Thanks
 

neosd

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Hello everyone


As promissed, we are uploading now a few videos with a new software version, showing some features we talked about last days.

First one is Rage of the dragons runing on MVS and changing AES mode from NEOSD menu, we would love to see who guess why we have choosen this game ....



We have also uploaded some more videos showing load times and how once you have flashed a game, even if you power off the neo geo and remove the cart, it wont get deleted, so you dont have to flash it again to play each time.
Those videos also show load times.




More videos to come on the next hours, just stay tunned, we are still uploading those.

Thanks !
 
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Rot

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I like the screensaver on your PC...

That's all i have to say about it...

xROTx

PS. You suck at ROTD...:D

EDIT: So do I... blah de blah..
 

Razoola

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I know why you choose that game but I'll let others guess.

Raz
 

GadgetUK

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Our pleasure to make you a video

Thanks! I ordered yesterday =D


I know why you choose that game but I'll let others guess.

Raz
That game has protection doesn't it? I did wonder about Super Side Kicks as well - that has a custom DIP on the board. The version of that game on the 138 in 1 doesn't work because of the protection. Not the end of the world because I have the original SSK but interested to know if that one works. Anyone know if that same protection on SSK is used on any other cart?
 
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Razoola

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Thanks! I ordered yesterday =D

That game has protection doesn't it? I did wonder about Super Side Kicks as well - that has a custom DIP on the board. The version of that game on the 138 in 1 doesn't work because of the protection. Not the end of the world because I have the original SSK but interested to know if that one works. Anyone know if that same protection on SSK is used on any other cart?

Yes and a couple of other things also.

The protection used in SSK is used in another game more heavily.
 

Razoola

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No, its another older game. ROTD has newer type protections.

Raz
 

neosd

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Yes SSK and the other game protection is working.
It's actually working better than current emulators, because it's not returning fixed responses, but actually doing the right calculations. It actually doesn't change anything in gameplay, as games just send fixed values and expect fixed responses, but we wanted accurracy in the cart protections.

Thanks !
 

JMKurtz

Tech Support Moderator,
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I'm interested in this product but I think your demand is going to be low at first because people want the plastic shell too. I won't place my order until both are available. I don't want to pay expensive shipping to the US twice.

What you should do is add a 3rd item to your store that is the boards + shell and have the shipping date set for December -- and I don't think people are going to be confused about a white or black shell - we're a pretty smart group of people. Just note that the white is the prototype and production shells will be black.

Jeff

Plasctic cases should be here first week of December (thats part of the contract we signed with the manufacturer), we wont let people buy those before we got the final units and people can see how those look, the pictures on the website are from prototype pieces done with plastic laser printer, so we dont want to confuse customers shipping a different color cases than the ones on pictures (final cases are going to be black).
Also, plastic cases are being built Europe aswel.

About demand, its too early to say how the demand is going to be, we will start shipping the first batch about 15 of November as stated on the webshop. I think we could produce more units before 20th of December, so if demand is not high from 15th November to first week of December, and then demand rises, we may have limited stock until January.

Hard to answer the question right now if you ask me.

Thanks !
 
Joined
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I'm interested in this product but I think your demand is going to be low at first because people want the plastic shell too. I won't place my order until both are available. I don't want to pay expensive shipping to the US twice.

What you should do is add a 3rd item to your store that is the boards + shell and have the shipping date set for December -- and I don't think people are going to be confused about a white or black shell - we're a pretty smart group of people. Just note that the white is the prototype and production shells will be black.

Jeff

I agree 100%. I will go ahead and order once I can buy the PCB with the shell. Maybe you can start taking pre-orders for them now?
 

tcdev

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Hi there, I have actually seen your blog a while back but your pervious post made me aware of a couple of things that I missed. I really like your retro conversions.
Thanks. I've been away from the Neo Geo scene for quite some time - it was the news of the neosd flash cart that brought me back to find out more! ;)

I think you mentioned about the issues for devs with the CD system and having to use CD's to test on real hardware. I'm wondering if you saw our little PC-2-NEO project that hooks that hooks a PC to NeoGeo via the joystick port?...

You know, I saw mention of this a while back but didn't look too closely at it because I wasn't "into" Neo Geo development at the time. Part of the "problem" I have is that I have a rather broad interest as far as retro gaming/computers is concerned, and I tend to focus on one system for a while... for example most recently I've been writing a few ports for the TRS-80 Coco 3 (6809), including Knight Lore which of course I have all-but-ported to the Neo Geo as well.

One the dev side of this I have said it before and Ill say it again. One really needs a direct USB connection to the cart and in an ideal world all reagions which are ROM should be RAM and not FLASH in which some of that RAM would be battery powered when system off. Of course this is the ideal DEVcart which would not really be the ideal solution if you want to play games only...

To be honest I find emulation in general, and MAME/MESS specifically, preferable for 99% of my development work. You generally only need to test on real hardware at strategic points throughout the project lifecycle. I did find one issue with Donkey Kong not displaying properly on my NGCD when I burnt the first CD... fortunately it took only a few "guesses" (and CDRs) to locate the issue. OTOH the type of work you do, which is so closely related to the hardware and BIOS, and pushing the limits of both, would more likely benefit from such hardware than pure game development would! But agreed, I wouldn't turn down a dev cart if someone gave me one either! ;)

I like your thinking in that like me you have said to yourself 'if I'm going to add some hardware to the system, why not enhance the system in some way if I can while still keeping the original games 100% playable'. This is what I also do in my NeoGeo Land concept, there are now a couple of videos on youtube of this proof of concept (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbTNlI2YWZs&t=14s) and a thread at http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?267341-NEOGEO-Land.
I've just taken the time to read through that thread in its entirety to understand what it is (and get side-tracked by the SSRPG English translation thread). Nice! Seems there is a lot of interest in it as well! No doubt the requisite hardware will appear! ;)

My enhancement isn't particularly exciting but does open up possibilities for ports of games that aren't really possible on the current hardware. More something an "old school" gamer like me might appreciate!

There is a thread on the techsupport forum showing an AES cart hooked upto an MVS and running with sprites also (http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?260590-AES-to-MVS-(plays-AES-games-on-MVS)/page4). I remember there were some glitches with sprites but I'm sure they were resolved in the end. You might want to browse it as you will probably find it intresting.
That I did - thanks! Turned out pretty much as I suspected - the serialisation of the sprite data prevents it being latched soon enough for the MVS. The glitch issue still looks unsolved at this point. And going by the date on the thread, I think technically I did first! ;) Though of course I was simply testing the pinout on my adapter boards, rather than attempting a converter!

Back to the neosd though. I'm really impressed with what I have seen so far in the videos given how it handles the protected games without requiring patches inside the P1 ROM space to get them running. This is probably the main point about this flashcart. There is also correct 512k Fix tile handling for example, very nice given there are a couple of games that will not display correctly without this ability compared to the original games.
Yes, no doubt a large percentage of the development time has been reverse-engineering and implementing the various glue (including protection) in the cartridges. My prototype was designed to cater for the worst-case scenario, though of course there was a lot of the same work to do for me, and then devise the best way to implement that in a commercial product. Kudos again to neosd for sticking with it!

After reading comments in this and other (even unrelated) threads I'm getting enthused to return to the Neo Geo scene and even continue work on my flash cart. I've even got a few ideas for spin-offs or even forge ahead with my motherboard...
 

JMKurtz

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I've been following your blog in anticipation of your cart, but you've found out about "real life" so things slowed down.

I was hoping your cart would have RAM on the CHAR board, which would open up some new possibilities on the Neo. We've discussed a developer's cart on our end several times and a bitmap feature was always at the top of our list that we would want to implement.

I'm already using a FLASH cart for my development, but my cart can be built by anyone rather cheaply. It's simply a set of boards (AES and MVS) with sockets, and I'm using 42 pin DIP flash roms and a couple 32 pin FLASH roms for M1/S1. Sure, it's not as fancy as these carts being discussed, but it gets the job done and allows for testing on real hardware and since they're flash roms, no lengthy ERASE cycles with a UV lamp.

Hopefully you dust off your projects...you had some great ideas going.

I knew nothing about Darksoft's cart until a quick Google a few minutes ago. ;)

I've had a few back-and-forth emails overnight on the topic with my ex-colleague who was kind enough to review my schematic and do the PCB layout all that time ago. He has encouraged me to continue with the project despite the competition that has now surfaced. I still haven't made up my mind but I must admit, having not had much opportunity to work on retro-related hardware projects for quite some time, I've very tempted to ramp things up again. Having said that, the "no time and no money" issue is still a real factor in the equation.

What I will say though, is that my design actually had a couple of features not readily evident in the details that neosd has released thus far. One of course is support for the AES out-of-the-box, though it's also fair to say that my product is all still vapore-ware at this point! There was another feature that I added that I won't disclose at this point, but it actually enhanced the capabilities of the Neo Geo somewhat and is therefore very unlikely to be duplicated by someone else. Whether the enhancement is actually something anyone else would be interested I can't say, but it would only be of consequence to home brew developers specifically targeting my flash cartridge that wanted to take advantage of this feature. It goes without saying that I had a few ports in mind that would use this feature.

The flash cart itself started out as a spin-off from my motherboard project; something that I could (laughably now) produce sooner and for less outlay. I reasoned that it might be a means to fund the motherboard development, and also assist in the motherboard development itself.

Sadly (as far as this project is concerned), my circumstances changed rather dramatically over a short period of time and I found myself without the means or the time to continue. The current status is this; the MVS and AES adapter boards have been designed, manufactured, assembled and successfully tested. I have, for example, 'run' an AES cartridge in an MVS system (sans sprites of course) which has, as far as I know, never been done to this day (not that there's a lot of point to it without sprites). The flash cartridge (prototype) PCB has been designed and fully laid out - a cartridge would thus comprise two identical 'flash cartridge' PCBs and an adapter with fingerboards to plug into an AES/MVS. Note again; this is only the prototype. What needs doing is a final review of the schematics and PCB, check again that the parts we have used are still available, and order a prototype PCB manufacture and assembly run (6-8 boards in total).

I had also planned a couple of different variants of the cart, including a low-cost 'home brew' version that was incapable of playing commercial titles but allowed home brew developers to test and even produce titles on cartridge.

As for the motherboard project; many years ago I got a rudimentary system implemented on a terASIC DE2 that booted the BIOS and played Joy Joy Kid - again sans sprites - but you could actually coin up and see the game running via the FIX layer graphics. I have a mostly-complete schematic which was ridiculously over-engineered on purpose; a massive FPGA and both MVS and AES cartridge slots. It was (is?) to be the basis of many future FPGA projects, and the carts slots make perfect I/O board connectors!!!
 

Razoola

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Jeff, I'm guessing that a basic bitmap function on the NeoGeo would not actually be that hard if one was to use sprites to build the bitmap. You would of course be limited to the same limitations of sprites at 16 colors per 16x16 tile unless you layer sprites on top of each other, but it could be enough.

I would see that working by being able to bank in the bitmap RAM above 0x200000 to edit the bitmap, once you closed the RAM down the extra hardware would take that RAM and place it into the sprites used to build the bitmap. And bingo, as long as the sprites are displayed on screen as expected you have your bitmap.

edit...

Jeff, did you see the demo blaster did with 'chunky mode' effect. That basically adds bitmap and 3D support to the NeoGeo though sprite and palette abuse (although it is only only half resolution). The upside is that works with no hardware modification at all. See http://www.yaronet.com/topics/185841-chunky-mode-explanation-and-example-source#post-26
 
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JMKurtz

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Yeah, saw blastar's work - amazing!


Jeff, I'm guessing that a basic bitmap function on the NeoGeo would not actually be that hard if one was to use sprites to build the bitmap. You would of course be limited to the same limitations of sprites at 16 colors per 16x16 tile unless you layer sprites on top of each other, but it could be enough.

I would see that working by being able to bank in the bipmap RAM above 0x200000 to edit the bitmap, once you closed the RAM down the extra hardware would take that RAM and place it into the sprites used to build the bitmap. And bingo, as long as the sprites are displayed on screen as ecpected you have your bitmap.

edit...

Jeff, did you see the demo blaster did with 'chunky mode' effect. That basically adds bitmap and 3D support to the NeoGeo though sprite and palette abuse (although it is only only half resolution). The upside is that works with no hardware modification at all. See http://www.yaronet.com/topics/185841-chunky-mode-explanation-and-example-source#post-26
 

fenikso

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I'm interested in this product but I think your demand is going to be low at first because people want the plastic shell too. I won't place my order until both are available. I don't want to pay expensive shipping to the US twice.

What you should do is add a 3rd item to your store that is the boards + shell and have the shipping date set for December -- and I don't think people are going to be confused about a white or black shell - we're a pretty smart group of people. Just note that the white is the prototype and production shells will be black.

Jeff

This is actually a really good idea. When I order I'll have no problem waiting for December to play, if it means that I'll have the shell, too. It'll save me from butchering up an MVS shell to use for one month before I order the real thing.
 

Rot

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I like the openness and details from neosd... but the proof will be in the pudding once Raz gets one of these units...

It's been a relatively stress free thread... I like that and I am SO GLAD Jeff is here...

No one argues with Jeff... and he LIKES things drama free...

xROTx
 

Montatez

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This is actually a really good idea. When I order I'll have no problem waiting for December to play, if it means that I'll have the shell, too. It'll save me from butchering up an MVS shell to use for one month before I order the real thing.

Im gonna wait as well until i can get a both.
 

Mendel

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quick question from someone who tends to fail a lot.

What happens if you power off (one way or another) during flashing?
 

Rot

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Oh shit, a wild Kurtz appears!

I'm taking a back seat now... thank fook...

Jeff can deal with this... his geeky nerd level is warp factor 11...

xROTx

PS. Let's admit it lads... I don't even know what the fook you'all are talking about with crc checks and dip protection...

EDIT. Jeff is an awesome nice guy... I'd appreciate you keep it drama fr33... I'd hate for him to PM my ass:D
 
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