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Thread: Button map Lemony Vengeance's Saturn-to-DB15 adapter (FGWidget)

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    Button map Lemony Vengeance's Saturn-to-DB15 adapter (FGWidget)

    I have two of Lemony Vengeance's Saturn-to-DB15 (Neo Geo) controller adapters which I've used and enjoyed on both my Neo Geo and my Supergun.

    A few months ago one of them failed. No big worry, as I just used my 2nd converter... until it stopped working as well. I contacted Lemony for a fix, and he graciously offered to fix them if I shipped them back to him. I figured I would give fixing these a shot before bothering Lemony with this issue.

    I opened up the converter and saw a rather messy and a bit scary wiring setup with very little protection for physical stress transferring to the fragile solder points. There was protection from pulling the wire from the box, but no protection from pushing the wire into the unit. I added a 2nd zip-tie on the outside of the box in order to limit the amount of travel the wire can make inside the box. It's not a great fix, and I hope that lemony or someone else can figure out a better fix.

    FullSizeRender.jpg

    Despite this seemingly obvious fail point, I did a bit more digging and found all the connections to be sound. Lemony did a good soldering job. His eyes must be better than mine.

    I finally traced the issue to being a feature of the device, and not a flaw. These adapters are made using the FGWidget Converter (http://www.godlikecontrols.com/downl...erwelcome2.pdf) which has the ability to be reprogrammed. It seems as though I had managed to put both adapters into programmable mode, and failed to get them out, and back into working mode.

    Here is the process I used to reprogram the adapters so that they are working again. I'm using a SEGA HSS-0130 dual arcade control stick, which has 2 rows of 4 buttons. I want the top 4 buttons to be A B C D on Neo Geo. START is START, and R bumper is COIN:

    1. On a Saturn controller that is plugged into the unit - which is then plugged into a DB15 socken on your Neo Geo or Supergun
    2. boot your machine and set to an input check screen. This will allow you to easily confirm what mode the adapter is in. If you do not have access to a input check screen, you can use the game select screen of a multicart. Other options are out there, this is just what I used.
    3. press the D-Pad up and down to confirm input is getting through.
    4. hold START button on Saturn controller for 20 seconds. This will put you into program mode. Confirm you are in program mode by moving the d-pad up and down. In this mode your d-pad motions will not do anything.
    5. press the buttons on the Saturn pad in this order: X, R bumper, Y, A, Z, B, C, L bumper
    6. wait 5 seconds for the adapter to reset
    7. play your game with the correct Neo Geo button mapping.


    controller.jpg

    This button mapping works well for me but can easily be adapted to suit your setup.
    Last edited by c0nn0r; 08-19-2016 at 05:48 PM. Reason: clarity

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    I've built the same adapter, the button reprogramming is the best feature of the thing. I use Saturn pads with my arcade stuff and can easily reprogram it however I wish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    I've built the same adapter, the button reprogramming is the best feature of the thing. I use Saturn pads with my arcade stuff and can easily reprogram it however I wish.
    How did you package your adapters? A little black box like Lemony, or something different? Can you share pics?

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    Mine is made almost exactly like Lemony's, except I was too lazy to mount a port to the box like he did, so I have cables coming out of both ends. I don't have any pics of it but it's almost exactly the same, we may even be using the same project boxes. I got a Saturn/Neo to Wii adapter from him once that was the inspiration.
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    Good to hear that it was the button config mode that was the issue! it's a little bit cringe-inducing seeing the hot glue, but it kept the socket in place in that tiny space very well, but the build quality of these adapters has SIGNIFICANTLY improved since I made these (nearly two years ago). I've figured out how keep the controller sockets in place since then without any hot glue needed. If your work isn't evolving and getting cleaner, then there's a problem.





    Last edited by Lemony Vengeance; 08-19-2016 at 05:32 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    Good to hear that it was the button config mode that was the issue! it's a little bit cringe-inducing seeing the hot glue, but it kept the socket in place in that tiny space very well, but the build quality of these adapters has SIGNIFICANTLY improved since I made these (nearly two years ago). I've figured out how keep the controller sockets in place since then without any hot glue needed. If your work isn't evolving and getting cleaner, then there's a problem.
    Ha! yup.

    It's great for me to learn about this as well, so it's been a good exercise. I'm still learning really, as I've found a Gremlin with more testing from today -

    Adapter Death: Plugging the adapter into my MAK Strike Supergun kills it dead. It does not register any input. I plugged it into my Neo Geo, and it's dead there too. Both the Neo Geo and the MAK Strike Supergun register proper input when I use my Neo Geo controllers. This is weird because I had been using the adapters with the MAK Strike Supergun for ages without any problems.

    The adapters are now not working again, and I am unable to re-program them back to a working state. Holding the start button for 20 seconds has no effect. I remember that this is what happened to me when I originally reached out. Perhaps after some time a capacitor empties, and the FGWidget resets itself - allowing me to re-program it again.

    @#$%^&!

    Lemony, or anyone else have any ideas as to what is happening?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    Good to hear that it was the button config mode that was the issue! it's a little bit cringe-inducing seeing the hot glue, but it kept the socket in place in that tiny space very well, but the build quality of these adapters has SIGNIFICANTLY improved since I made these (nearly two years ago). I've figured out how keep the controller sockets in place since then without any hot glue needed. If your work isn't evolving and getting cleaner, then there's a problem.





    Those new ports look amazing! Those look like adapters for a SEGA system. Are you doing the same for DB-15s as well?

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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nn0r View Post
    Those new ports look amazing! Those look like adapters for a SEGA system. Are you doing the same for DB-15s as well?
    If you can dream it, I can build it

    As for your latest issue C0nn0r, I'm not sure. I wired 5V up on the same pin that the neo is expecting (I can't recall off the top of my head) so if the MAK is sending it over another pin, then it's possible that it may have toasted the board. Has it worked in the past?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    If you can dream it, I can build it

    As for your latest issue C0nn0r, I'm not sure. I wired 5V up on the same pin that the neo is expecting (I can't recall off the top of my head) so if the MAK is sending it over another pin, then it's possible that it may have toasted the board. Has it worked in the past?
    Yes, it has worked very well in the past, and my other Neo Geo controllers work on the MAK still to this day.

    I just tried the adapter again plugged into the Neo Geo - It worked for about 10 seconds and then died again. Very weird! I'm not sure what else I can do from here. Perhaps I can send the adapters to you for testing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nn0r View Post
    Yes, it has worked very well in the past, and my other Neo Geo controllers work on the MAK still to this day.

    I just tried the adapter again plugged into the Neo Geo - It worked for about 10 seconds and then died again. Very weird! I'm not sure what else I can do from here. Perhaps I can send the adapters to you for testing?
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    Didn't Undamned have that problem with MAK strikes killing his USB decoders?


    he spends hundreds on scarves, of course he's a fag and then ChuChu Flamingo preserved the aftermath in a plastic case making sure it wasn't exposed to unstable air
    You're just upset that you're too goddam stupid to understand the games and whiff infinites.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuChu Flamingo View Post
    Didn't Undamned have that problem with MAK strikes killing his USB decoders?
    I'll ask him, but if he did, it makes sense that this would have issues too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by c0nn0r View Post
    Yes, it has worked very well in the past, and my other Neo Geo controllers work on the MAK still to this day.

    I just tried the adapter again plugged into the Neo Geo - It worked for about 10 seconds and then died again. Very weird! I'm not sure what else I can do from here. Perhaps I can send the adapters to you for testing?
    From someone who used a lot of these encoders, it's the encoder itself. Any product sold "as is" before you even install it is questionable. I've had to tell people countless times to remap the buttons to fix the problem. And if you try to ask Toodles anything, he doesn't even respond.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xian Xi View Post
    From someone who used a lot of these encoders, it's the encoder itself. Any product sold "as is" before you even install it is questionable. I've had to tell people countless times to remap the buttons to fix the problem. And if you try to ask Toodles anything, he doesn't even respond.
    That's crap. I noticed the zero support notice on the FGWidget documentation. Is there another better solution to adapting Saturn controllers to a DB15 port? Perhaps even a multi-adapter chain to go from say, DB15-playstation-saturn or something? eg. using a Saturn-to-Playstation + Playstation-to-db15.

    This is all new to me because I have been happily using Lemony's adapters for more than a year on my Neo Geo and to a lesser extent the MAK Strike Supergun.

    One thing I do notice about the MAK Strike is that there is absolutely zero RF shielding on the unit, and when I play games it is clear that it's receiving quite a bit of interference. This interference manifests as image artifacts such as dot-crawl and waves in the image that are slight, but unsightly (this is all through RGB to a PVM). Maybe the lack of shielding is a contributor to this. I will check the pins with my multimiter later today and post results.
    Last edited by c0nn0r; 08-20-2016 at 10:06 AM. Reason: clarity

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuChu Flamingo View Post
    Didn't Undamned have that problem with MAK strikes killing his USB decoders?
    I've not had a chance to ask him (what's the bet way to summon him?), but I did find this bit of info on a site that is selling his USB decoders - http://www.paradisearcadeshop.com/un...b-decoder.html

    Screen Shot 2016-08-27 at 3.53.00 PM.png

    Hmm...

    So I suppose that my working system was a temporary fluke, and that it's due to the MAK Strike.

    So, I guess... Anyone want to buy a MAK Strike?

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    Here's details about the MAK Strike controller pinout from http://arcadeforge.net/Supergun-MAK-...trike::74.html

    Does any of this look surprising?

    Screen Shot 2016-08-27 at 4.02.53 PM.png

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    I think the problem was that the mak strike doesn't actually output 5v on the controller port. I think it outputs 12v instead. It can obviously be fixed, but a stupid design flaw.

    Edit: Found undamned's post on SRK about it. It's due to voltage spikes on the controller ports when you flip the power switch. Up to 15volts. He laid out a mod to the Mak Strike to fix it. And he has mentioned newer versions of his decoder have better tolerance for this.


    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussi...-jamma-etc/p10
    Last edited by Yodd; 08-27-2016 at 11:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yodd View Post
    I think the problem was that the mak strike doesn't actually output 5v on the controller port. I think it outputs 12v instead. It can obviously be fixed, but a stupid design flaw.

    Edit: Found undamned's post on SRK about it. It's due to voltage spikes on the controller ports when you flip the power switch. Up to 15volts. He laid out a mod to the Mak Strike to fix it. And he has mentioned newer versions of his decoder have better tolerance for this.


    http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussi...-jamma-etc/p10
    Thanks so much for the link. It explains everything.

    The answer is that the MAK has a nasty power spike at boot that is high enough to fry the FGWidget. Most people on Shoryuken Forum are saying that it will brick the FGW, but in my experience one just needs to wait a day or two, and it seems to work again. I would not try this many times, but it does seem the device has some resilience.

    There is a permanent fix which involves cutting a trace and jumping some pins. Apparently the folks at MAK have confirmed the issue, and they have also confirmed that this fix is definitive.

    There is another way to get things working without any cutting and soldering, but it does involve a specific startup sequence, which I will list below:

    (1) plug your controller into the FGWidget device
    (2) plug Supergun PSU into wall
    (3) turn on Supergun & verify voltages
    (4) connect PCB
    (5) connect FGW+Controller
    (6) enjoy

    I have found that this works for me. I typically combine steps 3 & 4 because I'm lazy, but perhaps I should be more careful in this regard considering I'm using a POS PSU.

    Here is the exact link to Udammned's fix walkthrough http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussi...mment_10344432.

    I'm also going to cut&paste the details here in this thread for backup and reference.

    Screen Shot 2016-08-30 at 7.06.43 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-30 at 7.06.51 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-30 at 7.07.08 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-30 at 7.07.18 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-30 at 7.07.25 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-08-30 at 7.07.34 PM.png

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    hot damn dude! That's some damn fine sleuthing. Thank you so much for this
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    Glad I could be a part of the scene ;-)

    And thank you Lemony for your great gaming tools and devices. I'm very happy with the adapters you made for me and I will be ordering some Saturn to Genesis adapters from you - probably around Late October or November! Keep it up!

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    Quick update. I wanted to correct my button config for Neo Geo.

    It should read:

    XLYAZBCR

    attachment.jpg
    Last edited by c0nn0r; 02-01-2018 at 03:10 PM.

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