These new motherfucking chip security credit cards...AAARRRGGG!!!

It's been a while, so time for a rant.

This chip security credit/debit card bullshit is just that, some serious bullshit, and a real clusterfuck.

First off, my bank seems to be mildly retarded when it came to getting them to me. I've had to find this out the hard way when one day my cards randomly stopped working (months apart, BTW, first was my debit, then my credit card). When I called my bank (both times) they were shitty about it saying I should have received my new "chip" cards and my old one automatically was cancelled.

So once they reissued both of them (again, 2 different times months apart), and I got them, and I activated them...I got to face the fresh hell of using the fucking things.

-Does the store require the "chip"?

-If so, is it "Chip+PIN" or "Chip+Signature"?

-If they do have the chip active, it is a horribly slow process compared to a simple magnetic swipe.

-When can you insert the card? Some places will accept it at any time, others make you wait until a light comes on, or when your prompted to insert the card, again, it is random. When can you remove it? Again, random...no 2 places seem to be the same way.

-Does the store have a deactivated chip slot?
If so, are they now PIN only or do they now require a signature? Once, again, it is now random.

Anymore, that act of paying for something is just a clusterfuck. A long series of "YES-NO" questions, random insertion methods, random auth methods, random removal times...what a mess.

What are you upset about?

FilthyRear said:

What are you upset about?

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it's horrible the use the fucking things, what used to be a universal "Swipe + PIN" is now a completely random process dependent on where you're making the purchase.

We went shopping on Sunday and literally, not one store had the same process. Having to listen to instructions for every place I shop because they're all different is an irritation.

I've had 2 credit card breaches in 2 months, so I will tolerate pretty much anything if it helps with security. The banks and retailers will get it figured out eventually and then hopefully we will catch up to what Europe had in place 10+ years ago.

You want to use the chip if possible because the transaction is encrypted unlike a magnetic swipe. I don't think there is a simple answer to your gripe. Some vendors have the readers, some have the readers and don't have the chip reader active. If it is active you have you use the chip over the swipe. not sure about the pin/sig sounds like the transaction was debit so it required pin or it was ran as credit and required a signature.

I haven't used one of those cards in a long time...



Edit: what great new technology.

Yeah sounds like your problem is caused by using the chip debit cards and whether or not you're processing the transaction as debit (pin) or credit (signature).

Don't be noob. Get yourself a credit card and use it whenever possible. Having that 30 day buffer to get any false transactions rectified and not having your money directly accessible is just basic finances 101 in today's world.

mr_b said:

Yeah sounds like your problem is caused by using the chip debit cards and whether or not you're processing the transaction as debit (pin) or credit (signature).

Don't be noob. Get yourself a credit card and use it whenever possible. Having that 30 day buffer to get any false transactions rectified and not having your money directly accessible is just basic finances 101 in today's world.

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Nah...my debit is not only interest free -vs- my credit card, but it is immediate withdrawal and is covered under theft (the number has been stolen before).

As for the transaction being credit or debit...that is now often up to the cashier so I don't get a choice at the POS. It's not an issue of being a "noob", it's an issue of places being random on how they handle things.

Chip & Pokemon > chip & pin

It should settle down once everyone agrees on a standard, until then there's bound to be some confusion.

Have you guys got contactless payment yet? That's pretty good.

The payment set ups that are all different that I often hate are the scan your own purchases at the supermarket. Some of them work fine, it means I don't have to talk to anyone so I head straight for them, other one's never work and you have to call the attendant over again and again and any time saving you might have made is completely redundant.

Your credit card should be interest free if you pay the balance off each month.

When Best Buy first turned on the chip reader stuff last year, I locked up one of their POS systems by simply pulling the card out of the reader before it told me to.

It completely froze the computer up, locked up the transaction, held the funds on my credit card and everything. They had to go to a different machine and pull up the transaction and do some voodoo magic to complete it on that machine.

All told, because I accidentally pulled the card out too quick, it literally took 20 minutes extra.

It seems like your grief isn't with the chip itself, but rather with the poor implementation of the EMV system (that's the technical name for the security standard) by almost every part of the chain. That's some Charlie Brown-level coincidental bad luck.

You raised some questions, so here's some context that might frame that incompetence for you in a clearer way:

smokehouse said:

-Does the store require the "chip"?

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That's determined store-by-store.

In fact, stores - via their merchant acquirer company (the intermediary that allows them to accept credit cards) - were supposed to make the EMV conversion by October 2015, but pushed it back to March 2016. "Conversion" usually takes two things: new hardware that accepts cards, and validation of the new hardware. That last part requires every part of the transaction (sending an encrypted signal that gets verified from bank-to-store to work), and can take weeks for even the smallest mom-and-pop store.

smokehouse said:

-If so, is it "Chip+PIN" or "Chip+Signature"?

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US credit card issuers (mainly banks and credit unions, but also stuff like "Sears Visa!") pre-emptively decided that US consumers would be "too confused" having to remember a PIN for both a credit card and debit card. Based on that, unless you have an account with the United Nations Federal Credit Union or some other niche group, you have Chip+Signature.

smokehouse said:

-If they do have the chip active, it is a horribly slow process compared to a simple magnetic swipe.

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That's the EMV infrastructure at work vs. a simple swipe. When you swipe your card, all the information on the magnetic stripe gets transmitted from your card, to your bank, and back again unencrypted. A "man in the middle" can see all of your information free and in the clear, because it isn't encrypted.

The EMV infrastructure, on the other hand, pulls only parts of your information from the smartchip, and uses said information to create a unique "signature" for that single transaction. Once it's encrypted, that "signature" gets confirmed and verified by the merchant, your bank, and any other groups across the payment chain. If any part of that confirmation process fails, it usually means the network is compromised, and it'll terminate the transaction.

In fact, if a man-in-the-middle sees your EMV transaction and is able to break it, it's my understanding that they only have access to that particular transaction, and can't use the information to get their hands other transaction data.

smokehouse said:

-When can you insert the card? Some places will accept it at any time, others make you wait until a light comes on, or when your prompted to insert the card, again, it is random. When can you remove it? Again, random...no 2 places seem to be the same way.

Click to expand...

That's a the hardware at work and a given merchant's diligence (or lack thereof). If you swipe your EMV-chipped card in a terminal that both supports and has EMV activated, it'll make you insert the card. If the merchant has the EMV slot but it isn't activated, it'll shift you to the magnetic stripe until the merchant gets around to activating EMV.

smokehouse said:

-Does the store have a deactivated chip slot?

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If so, are they now PIN only or do they now require a signature? Once, again, it is now random.[/QUOTE]

See above.

ResO said:

I haven't used one of those cards in a long time...

Edit: what great new technology.

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There are two painfully bittersweet parts of why that statement applies.

First, the smartchip design actually cames from the same standards body that developed the smartchip for SIM cards. It's at least 20 years old.

Second, this EMV tech (the security standards) has been around the rest of the world since the mid-1990s, and is only just starting to proliferate here. It's not even Chip+PIN either for most, which will make an eventual change to that it's own headache.

The chip is a PITA, no doubt about it.

I really like the convenience of ApplePay, however, it has some of the same hang-ups. In terms of places that advertise they take it but dont (CVS last weekend), staff that say it doesn't work when it does (too many to name), they take it and it still requires hitting authorization buttons and signature (TRU), and then the places that just take it and it works great (Walgreens, Gamestop, Philly cabs).

It's a nightmare for retailers as well as cardholders.

At my store, each bank has it's own set of menus and options in the system. What options might work for one bank might not work for another and it's a huge pain in the ass. Fuck chip cards.

Few places I go has them yet. Only place I can think of that I use it is Walgreens. They have to tell me when to put it in and when to pull it out (ROFL!).

I agree, Smoke. PITA. Maybe I'm too impatient for it, but I'll learn. Hopefully the procedures become standard sooner rather than later.

madman said:

Your credit card should be interest free if you pay the balance off each month.

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Fucking a. Don't pick up unnecessary debt if you don't need to.

JoeAwesome said:

I agree, Smoke. PITA. Maybe I'm too impatient for it, but I'll learn. Hopefully the procedures become standard sooner rather than later.

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I imagine it will, and (like usual), I'm just bitching.

The thing just came to a head when I made purchases at 5 or 6 stores in short order and all of them were different.

I use it on the U-Scan at the local Fry's (Krogers) Supermarket. Pretty smooth so far as I put the card in the reader, the screens says transaction pending, then it makes a couple of beeps and tells you to remove your card. Never had to put a pin and except for my Discover Card, never had to put in a signature either.

The worst is how stores have different machines. Some places it is press green button for credit, sometimes press red button.

Get used to it, because it isn't going away. The fact that the US hasn't had it in place while it's been going strong in Europe for more than ten years in some spots. Really it's a game of catch up for America, so catch the fuck up.

use cash, case close.

VISA and MasterCard are working on a faster method to process transactions. We should star seeing these new methods by the end of the year. So far from testing, it speeds up the transaction by a good 15-20 seconds.

Tripredacus said:

The worst is how stores have different machines. Some places it is press green button for credit, sometimes press red button.

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That sounds really confusing. Having to, like, read and shit.

Liquid Snake said:

use cash, case close.

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I kind of feel that way.
We took care of a friend's dog and she gave us her chip credit card to take care of food and odds and ends as needed. It took longer for the transaction than I was used to and didn't require a pin. I understand it being more secure behind the scenes, but I kind of wish there was more security on the physical side of the transaction, despite credit card fraud assurances.