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Thread: Important Capcom CPS2 Announcement

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Just a quick question. Are you the type of person who actually reads all the post in a thread or do you just jump in where ever, maybe the last three replies.

    Any way your argument is coming from the perspective that there is no other method to revive a dead board. Basically despite the fact that you could phoenix your board to revive it you still want this new ability to restore cps2 board back to their in your words original condition despite the fact you will be removing that last firewall which is the absolute to distinguish a original from a counterfeit just to satisfy a small minority in the community.

    Your economics concerning the profit margin for such a boot is extremely misinformed. Taking into account the cost of material for building such a board it would cost me right now $100 and if you think I can get $500 for a SSF2X or Progear than I just made $370 after shipping.
    No I don't pick and choose this is the first time you explain things, did you bother to read any of my posts because you're the pot calling the kettle black right now when I've already explained that I don't consider a phoenix'd game a revived game (I should just refer you to the post #), it's a hack. The roms aren't original, they didn't come out of the factory that way. Do you pick and choose what you read? All of this nonsense you keep bringing up about how questions are asked rather than just getting to the meat and potatoes of what you mean is tiresome.

    The economics aren't wrong, you're not factoring in the effort to present it as an original creating passable labels among other things.

    Last firewall? Nonsense, this is how Capcom themselves revived these boards, it's the ability to restore dead boards, not provide a work around hack (again no offense to Razoola and others, as this is technically what they are I'm not being insulting). Regardless this is out there now and I'm excited it happened and it breathes back some life into the system. Next time try answering the question (which you still haven't) rather than trying to belittle someone and dance around the fact by saying you've explained this before when you clearly haven't. At this point it sounds like paranoia because this discovery adds absolutely nothing to what already could be done in terms of bootlegging.
    Last edited by Pasky; 05-03-2016 at 12:05 AM.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemio View Post

    I've been told just yesterday that someone in Mexico had the tools to make boots with working keys and encrypted ROMs during the 90s. I have no confirmation, just anecdotes from two operators that bought working CPS2 boards with the game they wanted, or had them converted for a smaller fee by someone in another city. They had CAPCOM stickers, stolen probably. I don't know if this is true at all, or what means they used. But if that is true, some of the "official" boards that have EPROMs and not Mask ROMs that came from Mexico are unofficial conversions. I've never seen one of those and I've changed batteries for hundreds of boards here in the past few years. My point is, this probably happened in the past and people didn't know.
    I wouldnt be surprised if this was true. More than likely it was someone working for Capcom making money on the side. I've seen this happen before in other "communities".

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasky View Post
    Last firewall? Nonsense, this is how Capcom themselves revived these boards
    Maybe I should explain things slower maybe that's the problem.

    Yes up until this project any board that is still running on encryption could be safely assumed to have been built by Capcom in which case you would be able to with little doubt assume its authenticity, this was the last firewall, that's the point I was making. See what I mean you made me repeat myself again. What exactly aren't you understanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasky View Post
    No I don't pick and choose this is the first time you explain things, did you bother to read any of my posts because you're the pot calling the kettle black right now when I've already explained that I don't consider a phoenix'd game a revived game (I should just refer you to the post #), it's a hack. The roms aren't original, they didn't come out of the factory that way. Do you pick and choose what you read? All of this nonsense you keep bringing up about how questions are asked rather than just getting to the meat and potatoes of what you mean is tiresome.

    The economics aren't wrong, you're not factoring in the effort to present it as an original creating passable labels among other things.

    Last firewall? Nonsense, this is how Capcom themselves revived these boards, it's the ability to restore dead boards, not provide a work around hack (again no offense to Razoola and others, as this is technically what they are I'm not being insulting). Regardless this is out there now and I'm excited it happened and it breathes back some life into the system. Next time try answering the question (which you still haven't) rather than trying to belittle someone and dance around the fact by saying you've explained this before when you clearly haven't. At this point it sounds like paranoia because this discovery adds absolutely nothing to what already could be done in terms of bootlegging.
    I very clearly said if I were to build one of these hypothetical boots in question it would cost me $100 to build a quality boot, you have absolutely no right to question my ability and resources, you don't know me like that son. If you believe it would cost more that reflects your abilities not mine.


    Let me ask you this are you involved in this project because I didn't see you credited on the first post. Ok let me look at Artemio first post, uh no mention of Pasky. You call phoenixing a hack job fair enough but here is the thing are you intimate with the technical aspects of how this new method is being implemented. What I mean is do you know for a fact these boards are being rebooted with 100% the exact keys Capcom used to do it because if not that would still make them by your definition a hack. Now I know Aetemio had/have a rebooter with some keys but do you know for sure how their method works because you come across as if you know more than the people who are actually putting the work in.

    How the heck does this breath new life back into the system, I actually laughed when I read that, what a exaggeration. Christ it just a method to re-upload encryption keys. Man you act as if someone home brewed a new game for the hardware, damn I was more excited but not really when they made that progear hack halfway to hell.

    And that final rant toward the end of your post, yeah your going to want to maybe calm down man. Your starting to wear your heart to close to your sleeve. Something tells me I will have to reiterate the exact same points I just made again to you anyway.
    Last edited by mainman; 05-03-2016 at 01:55 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  4. #79
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    I can confirm about Capcom stickers. I was given plentry of them in the past (from Capcom themselves), there is no reason not to believe many other people have them also. The only way to root out a boot made using a key rewrite is to look at the mask ROMs I feel and not the EPROMs. Given one has to open the case anyway to look for the battery situation it is is not a really a hard thing to do.
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    Original quote that was edited:

    Spoiler:

    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Maybe I should explain things slower maybe that's the problem.

    Yes up until this project any board that is still running on encryption could be safely assumed to have been built by Capcom in which case you would be able to with little doubt assume its authenticity, this was the last firewall, that's the point I was making. See what I mean you made me repeat myself again. What exactly aren't you understanding. It's not that I am not answering your question you just aren't understanding them through no fault of my own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pasky View Post
    No I don't pick and choose this is the first time you explain things, did you bother to read any of my posts because you're the pot calling the kettle black right now when I've already explained that I don't consider a phoenix'd game a revived game (I should just refer you to the post #), it's a hack. The roms aren't original, they didn't come out of the factory that way. Do you pick and choose what you read? All of this nonsense you keep bringing up about how questions are asked rather than just getting to the meat and potatoes of what you mean is tiresome.

    The economics aren't wrong, you're not factoring in the effort to present it as an original creating passable labels among other things.

    Last firewall? Nonsense, this is how Capcom themselves revived these boards, it's the ability to restore dead boards, not provide a work around hack (again no offense to Razoola and others, as this is technically what they are I'm not being insulting). Regardless this is out there now and I'm excited it happened and it breathes back some life into the system. Next time try answering the question (which you still haven't) rather than trying to belittle someone and dance around the fact by saying you've explained this before when you clearly haven't. At this point it sounds like paranoia because this discovery adds absolutely nothing to what already could be done in terms of bootlegging.
    I very clearly said if I were to build one of these hypothetical boots in question it would cost me $100 to build a quality boot, you have absolutely no right to question my ability and resources, you don't know me like that son. If you believe it would cost more that reflects your abilities not mine.

    Now I would be able to understand if the reason you disliked phoenixed boards was based on gameplay or glitches but no it seems your dislike is based on some purist crap. Do you even play your boards or do you just hang them on the wall and look at them. And to answer your question yes I do actually do play my boards and all I am concerned about is said boards being legit. I would not think ill of any phoenixed board in my collection.

    Let me ask you this are you involved in this project because I didn't see you credited on the first post. Ok let me look at Artemio first post, uh no mention of Pasky. You call phoenixing a hack job fair enough but here is the thing are you intimate with the technical aspects of how this new method is being implemented. What I mean is do you know for a fact these boards are being rebooted with 100% the exact keys Capcom used to do it because if not that would still make them by your definition a hack. Now I know Aetemio had/have a rebooter with some keys but do you know for sure how their method works because you come across as if you know more than the people who are actually putting the work in.

    How the heck does this breath new life back into the system, I actually laughed when I read that, what a exaggeration. Christ it just a method to re-upload encryption keys. Man you act as if someone home brewed a new game for the hardware, damn I was more excited but not really when they made that progear hack halfway to hell.

    And that final rant toward the end of your post, yeah your going to want to maybe calm down man. Your starting to wear your heart to close to your sleeve. Something tells me I will have to reiterate the exact same points I just made again to you anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Maybe I should explain things slower maybe that's the problem.

    Yes up until this project any board that is still running on encryption could be safely assumed to have been built by Capcom in which case you would be able to with little doubt assume its authenticity, this was the last firewall, that's the point I was making. See what I mean you made me repeat myself again. What exactly aren't you understanding. It's not that I am not answering your question you just aren't understanding them through no fault of my own.
    No, you still haven't answered how this can be used any differently then what can already be done. I'm done with this dead horse, you got a thick skull no doubt.


    very clearly said if I were to build one of these hypothetical boots in question it would cost me $100 to build a quality boot, you have absolutely no right to question my ability and resources, you don't know me like that son. If you believe it would cost more that reflects your abilities not mine.


    I don't care, time is money and saying you can do this effortlessly is x2.....son...lol

    Let me ask you this are you involved in this project because I didn't see you credited on the first post. Ok let me look at Artemio first post, uh no mention of Pasky. You call phoenixing a hack job fair enough but here is the thing are you intimate with the technical aspects of how this new method is being implemented. What I mean is do you know for a fact these boards are being rebooted with 100% the exact keys Capcom used to do it because if not that would still make them by your definition a hack. Now I know Aetemio had/have a rebooter with some keys but do you know for sure how their method works because you come across as if you know more than the people who are actually putting the work in.
    Explain how these games can be run using original encrypted roms in any other possible way other than restoring the original working keys, otherwise you're just grasping for straws. Anyone who's read the MAME documents or followed the CPS2 decryption scheme since the beginning would tell you this would be an incredible feat and would have probably been done by now if that's the case.

    I've spoken with ArcadeHacker several times on Freenode, albeit not about this project, but I'm pretty confident in his ability if he believes he has found the way Capcom reprogrammed these boards.

    Do you even play your boards or do you just hang them on the wall and look at them.
    .

    Now we're getting petty. You got a wall of games rotting on a shelf. I have very few CPS2 carts but the ones I do, I play thoroughly. That goes for just about all the arcade games I own.



    Where's your proof shelf queen? I play Super Turbo (that I own) quite often, I enjoy that game a ton and it's my favorite fighter, along with Vampire Savior (which I also own). I've played several people on this board and had a blast. I got the board of that too, I'm sure I could whoop your ass in either of them, well maybe not, you probably play it so much .

    How the heck does this breath new life back into the system, I actually laughed when I read that, what a exaggeration.
    Ya...the ability to restore a dead a board back to it's original working condition. Hilarious. Dunno how I put those two together. Comedy gold.

    And that final rant toward the end of your post, yeah your going to want to maybe calm down man. Your starting to wear your heart to close to your sleeve. Something tells me I will have to reiterate the exact same points I just made again to you anyway.
    What does this even mean?

    Like seriously, this is about as ridiculous as you referring to post #'s to answer questions that are asked. Who does that???

    I'm done with this subject, the project is finished, I'm awaiting ArcadeHacker's technical details on the project so I'm excited, I really don't give a shit what a shelf queen thinks. The reprogrammer genie isn't going back in the bottle.

    I'm starting to see why the previous comments directed towards you about devaluing games is coming into play here. You can't even answer a simple question of how this changes the playing field for bootleggers and instead dragged this on.

    Last comment I'm gonna make in this milestone thread and a big thanks to everyone involved in the CPS2 reverse engineering since the beginning. I've always lurked in #emu even back in the day back when Razoola was still on EFnet (albeit I was on a different nick then). It's been one heck of a journey to get this far.
    Last edited by Pasky; 05-03-2016 at 02:23 AM.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Is this a serious question or is it rhetorical. If its the former you know where I stand on THIS particular matter so once again you are asking me a question I already answered.

    And I emphasize this is where I stand on this matter so don't use my stance here to paint me as someone who would sit on the cure for cancer if I had it because I imagine you will eventually work your argument in such a radical direction.

    Here is a true story. I was the first person to phoenix the cps2 black all in one boards. After I did it I knew if I explained how it was done someone would instead use the info to utilize the black all in ones as a boot platform so I held to my cardinal rule of not leaking info. I sat on the method for a few YEARS and one day someone asked me for technical help concerning reviving the all in ones. So Tw3ek I decided to throw away my ways and think like you. To wrap this story up the guy I helped made public his revised method and on day one another member here was flashing boot conversions of the all in ones on this forum.

    Granted the guy I initially helped would have eventually figured it out in time, it is that I felted burned that I foolishly contributed to the problem when I did not have to.
    Rhetorical, but thanks for assuming the worst right off the bat. I'm just trying to have, as you put it, an amicable debate since I do not own many CPS2 boards or know a ton about the system, and you're bringing the insults into this.

    I'm sorry you got burned by someone shitty with the all in one board, and yes those people are out there. I agree that it sucks, but as you said, eventually he would have figured it out and pulled the same crap anyway. You shouldn't beat yourself up for trying to help someone when the fault lies with the person who would use the knowledge you provided to make bootlegs.
    [Rot] 1:39 pm: Twonk is a SAVIOR!


  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tw3ek View Post
    Rhetorical, but thanks for assuming the worst right off the bat. I'm just trying to have, as you put it, an amicable debate since I do not own many CPS2 boards or know a ton about the system, and you're bringing the insults into this.

    I'm sorry you got burned by someone shitty with the all in one board, and yes those people are out there. I agree that it sucks, but as you said, eventually he would have figured it out and pulled the same crap anyway. You shouldn't beat yourself up for trying to help someone when the fault lies with the person who would use the knowledge you provided to make bootlegs.
    The way I approach situations like the break through being discussed here is to assume the worse outcome will spawn from it. Unfortunately my pessimism is usual proven true in the end.

    Well anyway the views of one person should not persuade those of the majority and that was never my intention here.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    The way I approach situations like the break through being discussed here is to assume the worse outcome will spawn from it. Unfortunately my pessimism is usual proven true in the end.

    Well anyway the views of one person should not persuade those of the majority and that was never my intention here.
    Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one then. I certainly hope that the worst outcome doesn't happen though, as I am sure you do too
    [Rot] 1:39 pm: Twonk is a SAVIOR!


  9. #84
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    Boots were made prior to this and will continue to be made. Is there bad that will come from this due to being more difficult to spot a legit from factory? Yes quite possibly. You have to take a higher path on this. To get all pissy about this is foolish. You get to play the game on original hardware. If it keeps more boards in circulation as a whole and not in a landfill its a better alternative.

    The hobby has gone to shit. Enjoy the games, if you can. The problem lies in people willing to drop big money on this. If those people didn't exist then there wouldn't be a market for creating bootlegs.

    Hopefully some day a valid source of repro's, for video games in general, can be had so that those that want the part can have it without paying the originality cost. It's like parts for classic cars.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tw3ek View Post
    Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one then. I certainly hope that the worst outcome doesn't happen though, as I am sure you do too
    Sounds like people have forgotten what happened with professor plum because I haven't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkn55 View Post
    Sounds like people have forgotten what happened with professor plum because I haven't.
    I remember.
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  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkn55 View Post
    Sounds like people have forgotten what happened with professor plum because I haven't.
    They go out of business?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    I remember.
    With every technical achievement in the name of preservation will inevitibly bring out those who abuse it. Just look at repros. They were originally a mechanism to play fan translations, hacks, and homebrews on real hardware. Now there are boots of any game worth more than a few bucks. Mainman is just putting out his words of caution because it WILL happen. Too many uneducated newcomers on the scene and this will be an I told you so moment.

  14. #89
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    I LIKE a good healthy discussion... hence, I have no further interest in this...

    I just came here to congratulate Artemio and the guys who achieved this...

    xROTx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    I remember.
    pepperidge farm.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkn55 View Post
    With every technical achievement in the name of preservation will inevitibly bring out those who abuse it. Just look at repros. They were originally a mechanism to play fan translations, hacks, and homebrews on real hardware. Now there are boots of any game worth more than a few bucks. Mainman is just putting out his words of caution because it WILL happen. Too many uneducated newcomers on the scene and this will be an I told you so moment.
    This is true with ANY technological advancement. Printing press to PC. A lot of good has been brought to pass, but also a lot of evil as well. A select few (in the past it was the ruling class) should not be the only ones to have information though, EVEN if it means boots will happen. It sucks, but its almost an inevitability.
    Last edited by Lemony Vengeance; 05-03-2016 at 03:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkn55 View Post
    With every technical achievement in the name of preservation will inevitibly bring out those who abuse it. Just look at repros. They were originally a mechanism to play fan translations, hacks, and homebrews on real hardware. Now there are boots of any game worth more than a few bucks. Mainman is just putting out his words of caution because it WILL happen. Too many uneducated newcomers on the scene and this will be an I told you so moment.
    No good deed goes unpunished. Like Lem said, you're going to have some people use information for bad or unseen circumstances. You just have to take the bad with the good. It's a fookin' video game. The world won't collapse upon itself.
    Last edited by mr_b; 05-03-2016 at 04:02 PM.

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    All we need now is CPS2 re-pro sticker tech to advance and become on par with the original stickers/labels. Then spotting a fake will get real fun.

    Tx

    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    ... So if you have a in house conversion blue progear for example there is no longer a way you could validate it being legit if it is a loose board.

    ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyranix95 View Post
    All we need now is CPS2 re-pro sticker tech to advance and become on par with the original stickers/labels. Then spotting a fake will get real fun.

    Tx
    I can make 1:1 scans of the original stickers then offset print them, they end up looking 100% like the original, too bad I only asked for prints of the few games I own, I should have asked for some Progears, SSF2TE, SSF2T and Dimahoo.

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    My friend Juan sent me this. This is the answer to my dead MVC board.
    All my tutorial videos, combo videos, bug video's and general gaming videos can be found on my youtube. Youtube.com/URLWK


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    This is exciting stuff, and definitely something I would like to learn more about; I'm always worried about data loss on CPS Dash, CPS2 stuff. Just curious, is this method in anyway related to that device created by a KLOV member a year and a half - two years ago that could revive a dead board? I remember watching his tutorial video, and the device was a little board with LCD that you would select the appropriate game for from the included list matching the ROMS on your board and it would retrieve the encryption data. At the time, only certain games were on the default list within the device, but it caught my attention because C&D was on there, and it took so long to find that game, I'm always concerned about losing it. Again, just wondering if there is a relationship between the two methods.

    Great news indeed if you buy a battery board blind because a seller can't test it, or any other extenuating circumstance really!

  22. #97
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    I was just wondering yesterday what had happened to this announcement. Looks like I'll need to get my hands on an arduino, if I understand what's happening here...
    There is no knowledge that is not power

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renmauzo View Post
    This is exciting stuff, and definitely something I would like to learn more about; I'm always worried about data loss on CPS Dash, CPS2 stuff. Just curious, is this method in anyway related to that device created by a KLOV member a year and a half - two years ago that could revive a dead board? I remember watching his tutorial video, and the device was a little board with LCD that you would select the appropriate game for from the included list matching the ROMS on your board and it would retrieve the encryption data. At the time, only certain games were on the default list within the device, but it caught my attention because C&D was on there, and it took so long to find that game, I'm always concerned about losing it. Again, just wondering if there is a relationship between the two methods.

    Great news indeed if you buy a battery board blind because a seller can't test it, or any other extenuating circumstance really!
    Yes, its the same guy, the device he's using in that video is the same he uses in the CPS1 and Kabuki desuicide tutorial.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinitosoccer View Post
    Yes, its the same guy, the device he's using in that video is the same he uses in the CPS1 and Kabuki desuicide tutorial.
    Thanks! That makes sense then. I'm guessing that this is about how things have progressed to the point were it's not just select games anymore, all CPS hardware before 3 can be saved now. What a great tool to have around just in case!

  25. #100
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    So what is the tool exactly?

    I have a couple of CPS that have suicided over the years that are in their original state. I'd love to bring them back.

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