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Thread: Important Capcom CPS2 Announcement

  1. #51
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    It once again becomes up to a buyer to deal with a reputable seller.

    Thank you to all who participated in the project!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Artemio I am not attacking you I am just debating with you pros and cons and regardless of my opinion I am not trying to hinder you or imply you are personally doing anything nefarious for ill gain.

    I am just saying the people who would use this for its intended purpose are in the minority and those who would do otherwise will end up the majority.
    Fake labels are relatively easy to spot and you can't fake mask roms. I've yet to see accurately reproduced Capcom EPROM labels that you couldn't spot as fakes as well. I don't think it's as big of an issue as you're painting it to be. I understand the concern of people making conversions and trying to pass it off as the real thing, but I think anyone who cares about having a legitimate board that much is going to want proof it is original and can spot any inaccuracies pretty quickly.

    Personally I prefer the integrity of the original and not phoenix'ing roms. No offense to Razoola or IDC and crew but in the end it's just a hacked game and all your trust is set to the individuals that they successfully patched out the security while leaving the actual game unaltered. Who's to know this doesn't affect things such as RNG or timing. Not saying it does, it's just I'd rather just stick with the originals for piece of mind on this and for the progress on this I am grateful as more games can now be preserved in their original format.
    Last edited by Pasky; 05-02-2016 at 02:39 PM.

  3. #53
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    I can assure you the phoenix sets at least run identical to the originals including the encryption. Only when you start changing region in the phoenix menu do you open yourself up to possible situations which is why there is a warning. I fully understand though and there is nothing wrong with wanting your boards to use batteries and the encryption keys.
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  4. #54
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    On the flipside, the other great news is conversions can now be restored back to originals.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by FilthyRear View Post
    I just want to buy a cheap Street Fighter...
    Yup... affordable super turbos for all...

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Artemio I am not attacking you I am just debating with you pros and cons and regardless of my opinion I am not trying to hinder you or imply you are personally doing anything nefarious for ill gain.
    No offense taken, when I've cleared something up is due to either the vocabulary; or points of view where I believe there are other valid sides. The words chosen have been either unfortunate or slanted, instead of impartial.

    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    I am just saying the people who would use this for its intended purpose are in the minority and those who would do otherwise will end up the majority.
    That is indeed hard to foresee or determine. Once again, I believe that information shouldn't be hidden from the general public. And I trust that is for the best. Just check out how hiding information has worked for humanity in the past, for people that thought in a similar way you are pushing for now. There is good people out there, and I believe they are more than the ones that'll missuse it. You just won't hear from them as much.

    On the other side, this is the way we'll most probably have working cps2 boards in the long run, nomatter how careful we all are. It is the best way to reserve original hardware for those that care. The ones that don't, already do conversions left and right.

  7. #57
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    Knowledge like this should not be restricted just because some may abuse it.

    Really sad that innovations from anyone other than the NG.com old boy network are disparaged.

    Mainman: have any of your millions of CPS2 board batteries actually exploded? Jesus fucking Christ.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyo_vr4 View Post
    Knowledge like this should not be restricted just because some may abuse it.

    Really sad that innovations from anyone other than the NG.com old boy network are disparaged.
    We all have different ways of viewing things, my mentality is sharing info like this doesn't solve a problem it creates it.

    Quote Originally Posted by wyo_vr4 View Post
    Mainman: have any of your millions of CPS2 board batteries actually exploded? Jesus fucking Christ.
    Short answer yes, many. But these are the boards that were stacked in public storage.
    Last edited by mainman; 05-02-2016 at 09:19 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    We all have different ways of viewing things, my mentality is sharing info like this doesn't solve a problem it creates it.
    Creates the problem of what? De-valuing your stuff?
    [Rot] 1:39 pm: Twonk is a SAVIOR!


  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tw3ek View Post
    Creates the problem of what? De-valuing your stuff?
    My number one annoyance above all others is when people ask me questions I LITERALLY DIRECTLY already answered in the same thread. That being said I will not repeat myself with the addition that your question in general is meant to be hostile in its nature and I am trying to actually have a amicable debate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    My number one annoyance above all others is when people ask me questions I LITERALLY DIRECTLY already answered in the same thread. That being said I will not repeat myself with the addition that your question in general is meant to be hostile in its nature and I am trying to actually have a amicable debate.
    No, actually it's a legit question. Sure, some people are going to use it for nefarious means or make conversions or whatever, but so what? That kinda stuff is always going to happen. No matter what you do, someone will try and find a way to take advantage of it. Can't let that stop you from trying to move forward with ideas such as this though.
    [Rot] 1:39 pm: Twonk is a SAVIOR!


  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tw3ek View Post
    No, actually it's a legit question.
    Read post 42, already answered your question.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Btw I don't have a blue progear or plan to own one and I don't look at my collection as a investment. I am just trying to preserve the integrity of the hobby which this break through is advertised as doing but has the greater potential of doing the opposite.
    Again, yes, some people are going to use it for nefarious means or make conversions or whatever, but so what? That kind of thing is going to happen regardless of this breakthrough. Should we avoid trying to find any solutions just because of what some people might do?
    [Rot] 1:39 pm: Twonk is a SAVIOR!


  14. #64
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    I still don't understand what makes this any different than phoenix'ing in terms of conversions being on the market. The only difference I can think of is you can put a battery on it and say it's on the original battery....which you could do with a phoenix'd board as well. So how does this create more problems when you still need to burn EPROMS to convert games just like you would on a phoenix'd board? You can only use the original mask roms if you're using the same game, I guess you could claim it's a different region but then the jumpers would be altered (I think?).

    This doesn't create any problems that didn't already exist, and I'd say reprogramming the encryption keys is probably an even lengthier task and not worth the trouble to someone trying to sell a conversion than suiciding a game, slapping a battery on it that does nothing and burning some ROMS.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tw3ek View Post
    Should we avoid trying to find any solutions just because of what some people might do?
    Is this a serious question or is it rhetorical. If its the former you know where I stand on THIS particular matter so once again you are asking me a question I already answered.

    And I emphasize this is where I stand on this matter so don't use my stance here to paint me as someone who would sit on the cure for cancer if I had it because I imagine you will eventually work your argument in such a radical direction.

    Here is a true story. I was the first person to phoenix the cps2 black all in one boards. After I did it I knew if I explained how it was done someone would instead use the info to utilize the black all in ones as a boot platform so I held to my cardinal rule of not leaking info. I sat on the method for a few YEARS and one day someone asked me for technical help concerning reviving the all in ones. So Tw3ek I decided to throw away my ways and think like you. To wrap this story up the guy I helped made public his revised method and on day one another member here was flashing boot conversions of the all in ones on this forum.

    Granted the guy I initially helped would have eventually figured it out in time, it is that I felted burned that I foolishly contributed to the problem when I did not have to.
    Last edited by mainman; 05-02-2016 at 10:50 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasky View Post
    I still don't understand what makes this any different than phoenix'ing in terms of conversions being on the market. The only difference I can think of is you can put a battery on it and say it's on the original battery....which you could do with a phoenix'd board as well. So how does this create more problems when you still need to burn EPROMS to convert games just like you would on a phoenix'd board? You can only use the original mask roms if you're using the same game, I guess you could claim it's a different region but then the jumpers would be altered (I think?).

    This doesn't create any problems that didn't already exist, and I'd say reprogramming the encryption keys is probably an even lengthier task and not worth the trouble to someone trying to sell a conversion than suiciding a game, slapping a battery on it that does nothing and burning some ROMS.
    Pasky read post 33


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  17. #67
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Pasky read post 33
    So you're worried people are going to buy expensive new old stock mask roms and/or people try to perfect the art of etching on newly made mask roms for the sake of making a CPS2 conversion.

    Okay....

    I just don't see the concern there.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasky View Post
    So you're worried people are going to buy expensive new old stock mask roms and/or people try to perfect the art of etching on newly made mask roms for the sake of making a CPS2 conversion.

    Okay....

    I just don't see the concern there.
    You pretty much intentionally misinterpreted what I wrote. Never did I say anyone would commission the manufacturing of new mask roms and I straight out said the OTP still in the wild THAT I SOURCED are expensive, doesn't mean someone else couldn't source them cheaper.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    You pretty much intentionally misinterpreted what I wrote. Never did I say anyone would commission the manufacturing of new mask roms and I straight out said the OTP still in the wild THAT I SOURCED are expensive, doesn't mean someone else couldn't source them cheaper.
    When you tell me to read a post that has almost no context and it's your go to answer, I'm not sure how else to interpret it when that's the only mention of any bootlegging possibilities in the reply. If you don't want people to misinterpret what you say, take the time to get your point across rather than leading people to prior posts that have almost no substance for the question asked. Even this reply doesn't explain your concern.

    The ability to restore so many suicided boards back to their original condition outweighs any far fetched bootleg attempts people that make conversions could possibly conjure up that they aren't already doing. I mean I think the only thing they could ever come up with worthwhile for this would be to claim some prototype or something but it would be under so much scrutiny. No one is gonna take the time to fake mask roms or capcom labels to reproduce a SSF2X or Progear for $500. They'd have to go big time with some sort of 'NEVER RELEASED' game to get any return on their effort.

    And as I previously mentioned, even if a game is converted, with this knowledge there is now the ability to restore it back to the original.
    Last edited by Pasky; 05-02-2016 at 11:03 PM.

  21. #71
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    To mainmans point, I picked up a dead SFZ3 all in one and attempted to revive it using artimio's tool. It had GFX corruption so to see if it was a rom issue, I burned some hyper anniversary roms and tested. Still had issues, so i reburned all new SFZ3 roms and tested, same issues with gfx.

    I pinged the forum with my findings and didn't receive a very warm welcome The thing is this. There are people that just want to play the game.. If anything, this would give them more options in restoration of dead boards, just like artimio's black CPS2tool. Tbh, if I had the ability to re-encrypt or restore the encryption keys then, I would have.

    The board has since sat in a box in my arcade because I dont know where to go from here. :/
    It's impossible to be a nice guy on the internet.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasky View Post
    The ability to restore so many suicided boards back to their original condition outweighs any far fetched bootleg attempts people that make conversions could possibly conjure up that they aren't already doing. I mean I think the only thing they could ever come up with worthwhile for this would be to claim some prototype or something but it would be under so much scrutiny. No one is gonna take the time to fake mask roms or capcom labels to reproduce a SSF2X or Progear for $500. They'd have to go big time with some sort of 'NEVER RELEASED' game to get any return on their effort.

    And as I previously mentioned, even if a game is converted, with this knowledge there is now the ability to restore it back to the original.
    Just a quick question. Are you the type of person who actually reads all the post in a thread or do you just jump in where ever, maybe the last three replies.

    Any way your argument is coming from the perspective that there is no other method to revive a dead board. Basically despite the fact that you could phoenix your board to revive it you still want this new ability to restore cps2 board back to their in your words original condition despite the fact you will be removing that last firewall which is the absolute to distinguish a original from a counterfeit just to satisfy a small minority in the community.

    Your economics concerning the profit margin for such a boot is extremely misinformed. Taking into account the cost of material for building such a board it would cost me right now $100 and if you think I can get $500 for a SSF2X or Progear than I just made $370 after shipping.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    To mainmans point, I picked up a dead SFZ3 all in one and attempted to revive it using artimio's tool. It had GFX corruption so to see if it was a rom issue, I burned some hyper anniversary roms and tested. Still had issues, so i reburned all new SFZ3 roms and tested, same issues with gfx.

    I pinged the forum with my findings and didn't receive a very warm welcome The thing is this. There are people that just want to play the game.. If anything, this would give them more options in restoration of dead boards, just like artimio's black CPS2tool. Tbh, if I had the ability to re-encrypt or restore the encryption keys then, I would have.

    The board has since sat in a box in my arcade because I dont know where to go from here. :/
    Lemony Vengeance I am being honest. You are not the member in my story, he knows who he is and so does almost everyone else.

    Using the revival tool to troubleshoot a bad board is one of its legitimate uses.
    Last edited by mainman; 05-02-2016 at 11:40 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Lemony Vengeance I am being honest. You are not the member in my story. Using the revival tool to troubleshoot a bad board is one of its legitimate uses.
    Thank you for that... My goal has always been to put games in peoples hands and I've honestly worried about it since that day over two years ago.
    It's impossible to be a nice guy on the internet.

  25. #75
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    We don't really know what will happen with prices, that will only be dictated by the majority and the market. They could go down for all we know, and just rise in special conditions.

    Let's take the case of the black CPS2 boards and my code for example. If I hadn't released the code, it would have been figured out in a matter of days and used commercially without warning to the public that an all in one boot was possible. Would you have preferred that? If I kept it secret consequences would have been worse from my point of view, I rather made it public so people would know it was a possibility now and take that into consideration.

    I've been told just yesterday that someone in Mexico had the tools to make boots with working keys and encrypted ROMs during the 90s. I have no confirmation, just anecdotes from two operators that bought working CPS2 boards with the game they wanted, or had them converted for a smaller fee by someone in another city. They had CAPCOM stickers, stolen probably. I don't know if this is true at all, or what means they used. But if that is true, some of the "official" boards that have EPROMs and not Mask ROMs that came from Mexico are unofficial conversions. I've never seen one of those and I've changed batteries for hundreds of boards here in the past few years. My point is, this probably happened in the past and people didn't know.

    I understand your feeling Mainman, and respect them. You also know you aren't accountable for those messages we exchanged back in 2012, go and re-read them. We believe in the same things, just have different points of view in terms of the good in people and how to protect people in this particular matter.

    I believe that making this as public as possible, so all the interested parties know about it and generate their own criteria, is the best course of action. So they can make up their own mind. You probably believe that is idealystic and impossible to achieve, and that the less interested will never be informed. Both are true in a way.
    Last edited by Artemio; 05-02-2016 at 11:58 PM.

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