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Thread: Important Capcom CPS2 Announcement

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by leonk View Post

    1) Aren't the people that make $$$ doing Phoenix repairs also out of business now?
    Not for people that still would prefer Phoenix, for their own reasons.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    From IDC on the Arcade-projects forum:

    ​Looks like the CPS2 multi was instrumental in making this happen much more quickly. Furthermore, mitsurugi has already confirmed that this announcement wont affect the use of the multiboard.
    It was just used to speed up testing by IDC for a single week. All testing by me and Eduardo was done on stock hardware.

  2. #27
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    For sure people will still use the multiboard, I was just saying a new multiboard could be made using this method so all original encrypted game are supported on and no decrypted sets. Or simply use the right settings so the CPS2 system can play with the encryption running. Like mitsu say about the multiboard, this new developement will not affect the phoenix edition sets either.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemio View Post
    Not for people that still would prefer Phoenix, for their own reasons.
    It was just used to speed up testing by IDC for a single week. All testing by me and Eduardo was done on stock hardware.
    Thanks for the clarification Artemio. Was the Capcom hardware you own instrumental in getting this done?
    Last edited by Razoola; 05-01-2016 at 02:35 PM.
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemio View Post
    It was just used to speed up testing by IDC for a single week. All testing by me and Eduardo was done on stock hardware.
    Insightful thanks for that!
    It's impossible to be a nice guy on the internet.

  5. #30
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    Is this just rewriting the tables that get deleted once the battery dies? That's pretty cool for the purists that don't want to Phoenix their boards. I was thinking it was something like using fram or something with the original tables. Either way, it's a big step forward. Congrats to the team that did it and of course thanks to those that helped to get it done.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    Noob question.

    What exactly does this mean?


    Means cps2 conversions will now be sold with batteries to look more real :-)

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westcb View Post
    Means cps2 conversions will now be sold with batteries to look more real :-)
    I understand the cynical approach, but you can always ask for pictures of the Mask ROMs, and boards can be preserved in their original state.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westcb View Post
    Means cps2 conversions will now be sold with batteries to look more real :-)
    Most but not all but most cps 2 boards use mask roms. Faking the mask roms will be prohibitively difficult as OTP are no longer produced and NOS still out there are fucking crazy expensive as which is common with legacy components, etching the rom names onto the OTP would not be to hard though. But for the sake of argument yes this does open the door for a whole new league of high end boots if you can source the component cheaply.

    This new break through gives you a purist option but at the end of the day do you really want to be so pure as to keep your board factory stock encrypted at the cost of keeping that time bomb of a battery on your board going way into the future if you plan to keep your board(s). If you have a multi it really wouldn't matter as all you have is a boot in the first place but if you have legit board(s) I would prefer the piece of mind of not worrying about my board(s) being destroyed. I can see why some people would want to reboot their games with encryption but I personally would not want to be bothered as I have too much equipment to monitor as it is and a board in my collection that has been phoenixed is a board I no longer have to religiously monitor.

    I am going to be honest yes my primary personal collection is still on battery power and yes I do make a effort to keep things factory original. But my mentality is if I didn't buy the board dead I am not going to kill it, I will wait for it to die on its own by means of me possibly forgetting to change batteries which I do every 4 years. If some crazy shit goes down like exploding batteries, I have a backup copy of my entire collection plus a army of sac boards I can use as a emergency transplant to recover the battery damaged board anyway.

    From a purely technical stance I am interested in this project because I prefer to be in the know because people tend to hit me up on cps1/2 related matters.


    Quote Originally Posted by Artemio View Post
    I understand the cynical approach, but you can always ask for pictures of the Mask ROMs, and boards can be preserved in their original state.
    That's a understatement Artemio. Day one after you released the means to reboot cps2 all in one as a example, someone used it for sinister purposes.
    Last edited by mainman; 05-01-2016 at 11:29 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    That's a understatement Artemio. Day one after you released the means to reboot cps2 all in one as a example, someone used it for sinister purposes.
    You can also argue this lowers the value of original/purist hardware.

    Of course people are going to use information for their own means, but implying information should not be released because people could abuse it is paternalistic as well.

    Regarding peace of mind and battery use; I keep my collection stock, and have a database worth dates on battery change. I also measured ESR of the batteries I used when new, and after use. That gives me a life expectancy.

    On top of that, I have a raspberry pi with thermometers and higrometers controlling a dehumidifier and generating statistics on order to have controlled conditions. I did that because my arcade room if close enough to the garden and kitchen.

    Battery leakage hasn't been an issue this way. I've changed them every 5-7 years, and most of them could easily give 10 years under these conditions based on the limited statistics and measurements I have.

    The point is, you are not limited to that now. I'm not suggesting you kill your boards now, store them and only place a battery after prolonged storage and desuicide them. But that is now an option.

    It also will hopefully help find undocumented variants. Either because people have them stored dead, or because less boards will be phoenixed now that it is not the only option, erasing their original data. I've found at least 10 undocumented ones in the past 8 years this way.

    Speculation is a bad thing indeed. But people can view it in very different ways. Some will feel boots will flood the market. Some others know they have dozens of originals stored and dead, that can now be brought back without using a phoenix set. Those will now be able to enter the market. Some will not see a value difference between a dead or alive board of it is stock. Some won't see a difference with a phoenixed original board, since it can be restored.

  10. #35
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    Can you fucking shelf queens quite bitching about "the market" as if you give a fuck. Seriously, quit hoarding 2 or 3 of every game, then bitching about boots and flippers. You're the reason this is happening not because someone found away to revive what was previously thought to be dead.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko49 View Post
    Can you fucking shelf queens quite bitching about "the market" as if you give a fuck. Seriously, quit hoarding 2 or 3 of every game, then bitching about boots and flippers. You're the reason this is happening not because someone found away to revive what was previously thought to be dead.
    Another Johnny come fucking lately who does not even know anything about the subject at hand but just wants to pump up his chest. This is obviously news to you going by what you posted but it has been possible to revive dead boards for at least a decade now and Razoola gets credit for making that possible. Dead boards were being revived long before this came along, the concern here is that this new method remove the last safe guard that is used to authenticate a board. So if you have a in house conversion blue progear for example there is no longer a way you could validate it being legit if it is a loose board.

    Maybe sit back and actually read and learn about the topic before you put your foot in your mouth.
    Last edited by mainman; 05-02-2016 at 11:01 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemio View Post
    It also will hopefully help find undocumented variants. Either because people have them stored dead, or because less boards will be phoenixed now that it is not the only option, erasing their original data. I've found at least 10 undocumented ones in the past 8 years this way.
    It is unfortunate that the phoenix sets were placed into MAME because of this reason. This was the one biggest thing that happened that started the loss of undocumented sets from the preservation standpoint. Control was lost on what people did with the original ROM data before they were erased. I think I must have submitted forty plus revisions to MAME before that happened. In fact there is a set that is in the kawaks (released yesturday) that is not yet in MAME (submitted but never added along with a new rotd revision). Thats not to say that everyone who made phoenix sets did not care (yourself included) but many revisions have been lost as a result, probably mostly in the ASIA/JAPAN region.

    Your right that this may help with less revisions being erased, on the other side however is 'if' those sets will ever get dumped and submitted for preservation. The problem is working boards are still going to be reprogrammed to different games and the program ROMs still erased. Its the the equilivant of phoenixing in that way, as soon as somone programs a new key to the PCB that is not for the game there already.

    It is very unfortunate this happens but it is the reality.
    Last edited by Razoola; 05-02-2016 at 01:40 AM.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razoola View Post

    Your right that this may help with less revisions being erased, on the other side however is 'if' those sets will ever get dumped and submitted for preservation. The problem is working boards are still going to be reprogrammed to different games and the program ROMs still erased. Its the the equilivant of phoenixing in that way, as soon as somone programs a new key to the PCB that is not for the game there already.

    It is very unfortunate this happens but it is the reality.
    My hope is that dead boards that need to be desuicided and are not documented, would need their keys extracted in order to do so. And a dump would need to be emulated for that in most people's scenarios.
    Last edited by Artemio; 05-02-2016 at 02:28 AM.

  14. #39
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    Well done to all involved. How will this assist with CPS1 de-suicide?

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemio View Post
    My hope is that dead boards that need to be desuicided and are not documented, would need their keys extracted in order to do so. And a dump would need to be emulated for that in most people's scenarios.
    That is true but we have to remember the purist is very much in the minority. The majority consists of people who simply want to sale the game or play the game, they would have no problem simply changing the program ROMs to match the key instead.

    It is very unfortunate but the way things are now with CPS-2 and the devices and decrypted sets available, there is nothing we can do any longer to prevent the steps a person takes then they either phoenix or resserrect a dead CPS2 board. There are those of us who check for and ensure a potential non dumped game revision is preserved during the process, and those that do not. One of the reasons for the gamecart check on the unibios is to find undumped NeoGeo games, it can be used to easily check a game without having to open the cart and desolder ROMs first.

    We are all very lucky for example that NeoTurfMasta is the kind of person he is and was the one who got hold of the newly fround proto. Anyone else and that game would still be unknown or sold to a collector for a vast ammount of money who would then never share it.
    Last edited by Razoola; 05-02-2016 at 03:45 AM.
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Another Johnny come fucking lately who does not even know anything about the subject at hand but just wants to pump up his chest. This is obviously news to you going by what you posted but it has been possible to revive dead boards for at least a decade now and Razoola gets credit for making that possible. Dead boards were being revived long before this came along, the concern here is that this new method remove the last safe guard that is used to authenticate a board. So if you have a in house conversion blue progear for example there is no longer a way you could validate it being legit if it is a loose board.

    Maybe set back and actually read and learn about the topic before you put your foot in your mouth.
    lol I'm well aware of the difference between this and 'phoenixing' a board. Go play your "investments" and stop worrying if you will be able to prove the authenticity of your "in house conversion blue progear" to people on the internet.
    Last edited by Niko; 05-02-2016 at 10:17 AM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko49 View Post
    lol I'm well aware of the difference between this and 'phoenixing' a board. Go play your "investments" and stop worrying if you will be able to prove the authenticity of your "in house conversion blue progear" to people on the internet.
    Nice try back peddling but going by your initial post your ignorance is clear.

    Btw I don't have a blue progear or plan to own one and I don't look at my collection as a investment. I am just trying to preserve the integrity of the hobby which this break through is advertised as doing but has the greater potential of doing the opposite.

    One more thing I don't need you or anyone else to dictate my personal concerns
    Last edited by mainman; 05-02-2016 at 11:23 AM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    Nice try back peddling but going by your initial post your ignorance is clear.

    Btw I don't have a blue progear or plan to own one and I don't look at my collection as a investment. I am just trying to preserve the integrity of the hobby which this break through is advertised as doing but has the greater potential of doing the opposite.

    One more thing I don't need you or anyone else to dictate my personal concerns
    I'm sorry where did I back peddle?

    I have a backup copy of my entire collection plus a army of sac boards
    Great job preserving the integrity of the hobby. The only integrity you're preserving is for being a collectard.

  19. #44
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    Stop hijacking Niko, take the drama elsewhere.

  20. #45
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    wont be long before this ends up in the war room

    BTW, great job to those involved.
    Gil Perales

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niko49 View Post
    I'm sorry where did I back peddle?



    Great job preserving the integrity of the hobby. The only integrity you're preserving is for being a collectard.
    It's clear that by you resorting to childish name calling my assumptions about your lack of knowledge of the subject is correct.

    But it has alao come to my awareness that by how you conduct yourself when someone exposes your ignorance that you also lack intelligence of any kind so it is pointless to continue debating a obvious child so I will leave you to yourself so not to derail the thread.
    Last edited by mainman; 05-02-2016 at 02:23 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    I am just trying to preserve the integrity of the hobby which this break through is advertised as doing but has the greater potential of doing the opposite.
    "Advertise" implies a profit (marketing, promotion and business in general), and also seems to imply we have a hidden agenda. Neither is the case, we are being and will be as open as possible about it.

    Knifes are also advertised as simplifying human life, and also have the greater potential of doing the opposite.

  23. #48
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    I just want to buy a cheap Street Fighter...
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvie View Post
    Xorthen was on my case for a few days via PM (and then some) offering to pay me $20 just to talk on the phone with me for an hour, but he chickened out or something and then decided to be an asshole in public towards me

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artemio View Post
    "Advertise" implies a profit (marketing, promotion and business in general), and also seems to imply we have a hidden agenda. Neither is the case, we are being and will be as open as possible about it.

    Knifes are also advertised as simplifying human life, and also have the greater potential of doing the opposite.
    Artemio I am not attacking you I am just debating with you pros and cons and regardless of my opinion I am not trying to hinder you or imply you are personally doing anything nefarious for ill gain.

    I am just saying the people who would use this for its intended purpose are in the minority and those who would do otherwise will end up the majority.


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    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    I am just saying the people who would use this for its intended purpose are in the minority and those who would do otherwise will end up the majority.
    This is a sadly negative worldview on what should be an occasion for celebration.

    Sure, some people will use knowledge like this for nefarious purposes, but this will be the case with anything. I think most people just want to play the games.
    [Rot] 1:39 pm: Twonk is a SAVIOR!


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