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Thread: Tim Worthington N64 RGB kit

  1. #1
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    Tim Worthington N64 RGB kit

    Have any of you guys done this mod or have a system modded with Tim's new RGB kit? Wondering how easy it is to do vs the old RGB N64 RGB mod. And is there any noticeable differences between the old and new? I like that any N64 not just the early run / certain serial # can be modded.
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  2. #2
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    Tim's N64 board has a SLIGHTLY clearer image than the regular RGB mod that only certain N64's have available to them, it's pretty negligible though as it's such a minor difference. It's more involved than the 'regular' mod as it requires soldering to some SMD pins iirc. If you can solder on a small pitch IC, you should be okay.

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    I'm in Tim's "Recommended Installation Services" list (Apocalypse Mods) and in all honesty it worth it if your N64 isn't easily RGB moddable (early NTSC models and FRA models). And that's the original purpose of the board: provide RGB for non-compatible N64s. For compatible models the best solution is the THS7314 based mod (you can also install the missing SMD components in a FRA model but that's not necessarily easy and I didn't notice any difference).
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 04-04-2016 at 04:21 PM.
    Current SNK projects:
    - Samurai Spirits (Shodown) RPG English version for the NGCD:
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...nch-to-English)
    - AES to MVS converter (plays AES games on MVS):
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...-games-on-MVS)


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    Just remember: No matter what, it's still not gonna look great. That being said, I did buy one of Tim's Atari 2600 kits, mostly for the lulz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    Just remember: No matter what, it's still not gonna look great. That being said, I did buy one of Tim's Atari 2600 kits, mostly for the lulz.
    I tend not to agree with you. The first time I've installed a RGB kit in one of my N64s I was like "How could I have played the games with such a poor composite quality before!".
    Where you're right is the blurring effect on the N64 is due to the anti-aliasing algorithm. You can disable it with an Action Relay/Game Shark.
    Current SNK projects:
    - Samurai Spirits (Shodown) RPG English version for the NGCD:
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...nch-to-English)
    - AES to MVS converter (plays AES games on MVS):
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...-games-on-MVS)


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    I always played the 64 in svideo, so combined with the fact that even in RGB most of the games were still blurry as hell it wasn't a marked improvement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    I always played the 64 in svideo, so combined with the fact that even in RGB most of the games were still blurry as hell it wasn't a marked improvement.
    Yeah I've heard people saying there isn't much difference between s-video and RGB.
    You should try to disable the AA if you have a GS, it makes a HUGE difference:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csgtihnp75c
    Current SNK projects:
    - Samurai Spirits (Shodown) RPG English version for the NGCD:
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...nch-to-English)
    - AES to MVS converter (plays AES games on MVS):
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...-games-on-MVS)


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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    I always played the 64 in svideo, so combined with the fact that even in RGB most of the games were still blurry as hell it wasn't a marked improvement.
    It really works on a game by game basis tbh. Certain games, as you say, benefit minimally from the RGB mod. Other games benefit considerably. Specifically, as an example, my fave N64 title comes to mind: Doom64. It looks utterly phenomenal via RGB without the blur. Really nice indeed...
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    I've emailed back and forth with Tim a few times on the topic of integrating some work I did for de-bluring the N64's output. Here is my before and after:




    Sounds like he will be looking into putting it in to his next revision.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikejmoffitt View Post
    I've emailed back and forth with Tim a few times on the topic of integrating some work I did for de-bluring the N64's output. Here is my before and after:

    Sounds like he will be looking into putting it in to his next revision.
    How does it work? IIRC there is 2 different anti-aliasing things in the N64, one is software and one is hardware, isn't it?
    Current SNK projects:
    - Samurai Spirits (Shodown) RPG English version for the NGCD:
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...nch-to-English)
    - AES to MVS converter (plays AES games on MVS):
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...-games-on-MVS)


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    How does it work? IIRC there is 2 different anti-aliasing things in the N64, one is software and one is hardware, isn't it?
    It's not anti-aliasing, it's a horizontal blur. The RCP will generate AA for polygons, etc. but the horizontal blur does not appear to be related to this .The mode of operation is described earlier in my shmups thread on the topic (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=56988), where every other column of the frame is dropped.
    Last edited by mikejmoffitt; 04-06-2016 at 09:54 PM.

  12. #12
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    I haven't tried the N64 in RGB, never bothered w/the mod and was always happy w/the s-video. I wouldn't mind going RGB on it since I've got cables for most of my other systems.
    >

  13. #13
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    Here's another explanation that I ran across today from the guy that makes the N64 HDMI mod:
    http://retroactive.be/forum/viewtopi...&t=7&start=360

    It's at the bottom
    Last edited by buaku; 04-06-2016 at 10:36 PM. Reason: add more info

  14. #14
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    I was expecting more from the RGB modded N64. I have a modable model and plugged it into the Framemeister and wasn't blown away. That was most likely because I had already connected the s-video into the upscaler. Though it's nice to say you have an RGB modded system, when it comes to the N64, I would say that most would be somewhat disappointed in the difference.

    However, hearing of disabling AA sounds interesting. Anything to get that bad boy looking great!

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    Disabling AA is not the real fix, as that's going to change other things. What you want is removing the blur, which the HDMI kit calls VI De-Blur. In software, the VI dither filter can be disabled to accomplish this effect, which is not the same as removing AA.

    I just got a PVM 20M2U so I can take pictures soon of the difference over RGB.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikejmoffitt View Post
    Disabling AA is not the real fix, as that's going to change other things. What you want is removing the blur, which the HDMI kit calls VI De-Blur. In software, the VI dither filter can be disabled to accomplish this effect, which is not the same as removing AA.

    I just got a PVM 20M2U so I can take pictures soon of the difference over RGB.
    The only way to get this is to get an HDMI kit? I also have a PVM. I've never heard of the removal of the dithering. I always thought AA was the major source of the "blah" factor.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by byted View Post
    The only way to get this is to get an HDMI kit? I also have a PVM. I've never heard of the removal of the dithering. I always thought AA was the major source of the "blah" factor.
    The HDMI kit, or any other FPGA/CPLD kit implementing the same de-blur algorithm (the PCB I've produced for myself, and possibly an update to Tim's board).

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