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Thread: Help troubleshooting my attempts to pass PC VGA into my Framemeister...

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    Ikari Warrior
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    Help troubleshooting my attempts to pass PC VGA into my Framemeister...

    I am trying to capture VGA footage from my DOS PC for use on my YT channel. I bought a "Kenzei" box from Behar Bros, which takes VGA in, combines the sync, and sends normal scart RGB (or component or composite) out. It was originally designed for use with a Dreamcast VGA box. I can use it with a Dreamcast just fine, passing the signal to my Framemeister. But when I hook my DOS PC up to the same box, I get nothing. I thought it wouldn't make a difference, because both VGA signals should be 31khz 640x480. The Framemeister does not acknowledge an input when I hook up the PC. I tried bypassing the Framemeister and hooking the Kenzei straight to my TV using the component outputs, and I still get nothing, which would obviously suggest that the Kenzei doesn't like the signal coming from my computer, but again I don't understand how it is any different than the signal coming out of a DC VGA box. Help?

    I know about the XPC-4, but it does not output HDMI. The only other thing I can think to try (other than just using the s-video out on my DOS PC's video card) is to just buy one of those VGA -> HDMI converters, but they all seem like cheap chinese shit.
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    JammaNationX
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    You made sure your screen resolution was 640 X 480 on the PC?

    I use a HDMI standalone capture device that saves in 2gb chunks to a USB flash drive. I used it with a VGA to HDMI converter and it worked great. You should try it out if this setup isn't working for you. I have a sample video or two on my YouTube channel of the capture quality. The VGA to HDMI converter was a small white one and was only $15. It only converts the signal to HDMI, not upscale. So 640 X 480 would just convert to 480p HDMI.

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    Ikari Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xian Xi View Post
    You made sure your screen resolution was 640 X 480 on the PC?

    I use a HDMI standalone capture device that saves in 2gb chunks to a USB flash drive. I used it with a VGA to HDMI converter and it worked great. You should try it out if this setup isn't working for you. I have a sample video or two on my YouTube channel of the capture quality. The VGA to HDMI converter was a small white one and was only $15. It only converts the signal to HDMI, not upscale. So 640 X 480 would just convert to 480p HDMI.
    Well, it's just DOS. How would I check the resolution? If I can get the VGA into 480p HDMI, then my Elgato should be able to record it just fine. I am looking at your YT channel right now, but am not sure which videos you are referring to. Thanks for the response!!
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    The Chinese Kid Kid Panda's Avatar
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    What kind of video card do you have? Are we talking like a real pure dos machine? My old speedstar64 ISA video card couldn't display at 640x480, so everything that came out was 320 x 240/220/etc. if your vid card is newer then there shouldn't be any issue with it pushing a 480 display out.
    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    I don't know why you're white knighting this guy, couldn't you buy the North Pole and have the elves build you anything you want?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    Well, it's just DOS. How would I check the resolution? If I can get the VGA into 480p HDMI, then my Elgato should be able to record it just fine. I am looking at your YT channel right now, but am not sure which videos you are referring to. Thanks for the response!!
    If it's just DOS and you have not installed any video card drivers, then DOS is using the default resolution of your video card, which may (or may not) be standard VGA (640 x 480). Which card are you using? can you plug a standard monitor and check in its menu the real resolution?

    Regards.

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    The Chinese Kid Kid Panda's Avatar
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    640x480 is not standard VGA. It's SVGA. Standard VGA is actually 320x/200/240.
    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    I don't know why you're white knighting this guy, couldn't you buy the North Pole and have the elves build you anything you want?

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    Hollywood Hulk Gohan GohanX's Avatar
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    The Kenzei doesn't output Component, btw. The RCA jacks are just another RGBS output. All the Kenzei does is combine the sync signals, it doesn't do any transcoding.

    If you are using the Kenzei by itself, make sure you are using an external power adapter and the power switch is set appropriately. I'm not sure if a PC video card outputs a power signal through the VGA output, and if it does it may not be enough.
    Last edited by GohanX; 03-22-2016 at 04:01 PM.
    Whatcha gonna do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Panda View Post
    640x480 is not standard VGA. It's SVGA. Standard VGA is actually 320x/200/240.
    True, I missed the S.

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    Ikari Warrior
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    The card is an ATI Rage 3D II. PCI. I bought it because it has s-video out, but would prefer to record RGB if possible. Although as DNSDies pointed out, some games run at lower resolutions, so maybe s-video is the best I can hope for without having more headaches.

    Yes, it is a real pure DOS machine. P90 I think, running DOS 6.22.

    I am using an external power brick for the Kenzei. As I said, it works fine with a Dreamcast, so there is something about the signal coming from my PC that it doesn't care for. Didn't know that the RCA jacks are still RGB and not component, so that makes sense. So is the yellow jack next to them just the sync line, then?

    Plugging it into a monitor and checking the resolution is a great idea.
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    Hollywood Hulk Gohan GohanX's Avatar
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    Yes, yellow is sync. Makes it easy to use with pvms.
    Whatcha gonna do?

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    Not sure if it will help you Jibba, but it might be worth a try? http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=15190

    Regards.

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    Ikari Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by aha2940 View Post
    Not sure if it will help you Jibba, but it might be worth a try? http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=15190

    Regards.
    Thanks dude, I'll check that out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    Thanks dude, I'll check that out.
    I would definitely ask around at Vogons. It's the Neo Geo forums of classic PC gaming.

    And read this. Near the bottom.

    http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...olution-IN-DOS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Panda View Post
    640x480 is not standard VGA. It's SVGA. Standard VGA is actually 320x/200/240.
    No, that's not quite right. 640x480 is the original VGA, 800x600 is SVGA, 1024x768 is XGA, etc.

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    Ikari Warrior
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    I tried hooking the s-video out on my video card directly to the Elgato. Still doesn't really work because every time the resolution switches, the signal cuts out. This is going to be a real bitch to figure out.

    In case anyone is curious, I am trying to capture a bunch of old Gravis Ultrasound demos. Example:



    The dude that made this video used some kind of crazy $1,000 capture card, tho.

    Edit: Thanks Greedo, but that's for Windows.
    Last edited by Jibbajaba; 03-23-2016 at 12:37 AM.
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    Chang's Grocer
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    Might wanna hit up LGR on YouTube. He does alot of DOS videos and may have a solution for you.

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    Ikari Warrior
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNSDies View Post
    Jibba,

    You might try reading this thread:
    http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33392&start=0

    Using VLC or Media Player Classic to view the video stream from a capture device might make it work, although at some delay. It's worth trying, and doesn't cost anything except your time.
    Yeah, I've been poking around on the Vogons site. They actually have a whole mega-thread dedicated to VGA capture, and the takeaway message I got was that it isn't easy, and it isn't cheap. I already sunk about $400 into a framemeister and an Elgato for capturing console stuff, and it looks like I would have to buy more stuff to capture DOS VGA, and it may or may not work that well. That Avermedia card looks neat, but I would have to build a PC in order to use it, which of course drives the cost WAY up. The s-video solution might not give me the highest-quality video, but it won't care about things like on-the-fly resolution changes.

    Edit: If it were just DOS game footage, I wouldn't really mind using DOSBox. But I've tried running these GUS demos in DOSBox and they're glitchy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    Might wanna hit up LGR on YouTube. He does alot of DOS videos and may have a solution for you.
    Yeah, I reached out to him but haven't heard back. People on Vogons seem to think that he's using DOSBox, though.
    Last edited by Jibbajaba; 03-23-2016 at 03:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmjr25 View Post
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    Chang's Grocer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    Yeah, I reached out to him but haven't heard back. People on Vogons seem to think that he's using DOSBox, though.
    That would be a bit disappointing. I was always under the assumption that he was running real hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    That would be a bit disappointing. I was always under the assumption that he was running real hardware.
    I think I remember him doing a Q/A episode saying that he uses dosbox for it's ease of capture. I think when he streams old dos games he's even using Dosbox too.
    Quote Originally Posted by DecepticonZero View Post
    I don't know why you're white knighting this guy, couldn't you buy the North Pole and have the elves build you anything you want?

  20. #20
    Ikari Warrior
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    I just don't like using emulation on my channel because I don't think you can legitimately talk about a game from a technical perspective when you're emulating it. Shitty framerate, glitchy graphics, glitchy sound, etc. Is it the game, or just the emulation?
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    Chang's Grocer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    I just don't like using emulation on my channel because I don't think you can legitimately talk about a game from a technical perspective when you're emulating it. Shitty framerate, glitchy graphics, glitchy sound, etc. Is it the game, or just the emulation?
    This too a T is my feelings. I love emulation, but when your doing a show on it use the real hardware.

  22. #22
    Rugal's Thug
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    What do you get if you select the "full status" option in the XRGB? That should give you a clue of what is wrong with the signal.

    I use an UMSA from ArcadeForge to convert a 480p VGA signal from a MiST FPGA into an X-RGB, and it works fine except if I try using some of the Atari ST or Amiga monochrome resolutions which have different timings.

  23. #23
    Choi's Barber
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    XPC4 -> Frameister -> Elgato?

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    Chang's Grocer
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNSDies View Post
    Another Idea after reading some threads on VOGONS.

    buy a PCI GeForce FX 5200 with a DVI port on it.
    It's compatible all the way down to Windows 95, and you can use a DVI to HDMI passive adapter.

    Best of all, they're $15-20 on ebay.
    That's a fantastic idea.

  25. #25
    Choi's Barber
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    Quote Originally Posted by DNSDies View Post
    It's compatible all the way down to Windows 95, and you can use a DVI to HDMI passive adapter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jibbajaba View Post
    Yes, it is a real pure DOS machine. P90 I think, running DOS 6.22.
    Hmm...

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