Voting is up for DarkSofts Neo Geo Multi Cart Design.

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Razoola

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As shadowkn says. On a normal multislot the bios handles the game swapping totally.

It is possible to do the same swapping from within a cart slot only (If I understand what you mean) so it behaves identically to a multislot without using the bios or physically patching every game you have on the cart at the ROM level. This can work even down to using the select button on the JAMMA edge / Joystick to select through games. You just have design the cart hardware with the needed components in mind to allow this.
 

greedostick

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Why don't shadowkun and razoola just design a cart together? You guys obviously have the know how, and skills to create product and distribute the product. I think having a cart designed by people who are in tight knit with the community would be ideal, since you both obviously have everyone in mind, including active independent developers, and share similar views regarding hardware design.

I would think a kick start would be successful.
 

Fygee

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Why don't shadowkun and razoola just design a cart together? You guys obviously have the know how, and skills to create product and distribute the product. I think having a cart designed by people who are in tight knit with the community would be ideal, since you both obviously have everyone in mind, including active independent developers, and share similar views regarding hardware design.

I would think a kick start would be successful.

I think this would be a neat idea.
 

max 330 mega

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Why don't shadowkun and razoola just design a cart together? You guys obviously have the know how, and skills to create product and distribute the product. I think having a cart designed by people who are in tight knit with the community would be ideal, since you both obviously have everyone in mind, including active independent developers, and share similar views regarding hardware design.

I would think a kick start would be successful.
i have no idea how this had been overlooked before and for so long at this point. i agree. do this.
 

BanishingFlatsAC

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Why don't shadowkun and razoola just design a cart together? You guys obviously have the know how, and skills to create product and distribute the product. I think having a cart designed by people who are in tight knit with the community would be ideal, since you both obviously have everyone in mind, including active independent developers, and share similar views regarding hardware design.

I would think a kick start would be successful.

I'd rather they team up to invent some sort of low priced but highly flavorful pizza.
 

greedostick

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i have no idea how this had been overlooked before and for so long at this point. i agree. do this.

I'm guessing it's been brought up. Kurtz said he has one already. Maybe he could offer guidance, or even be part. Bit it seems like he has a lot going on, on the side.
 

Newsdee

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Looking at other flash carts, my Virtual boy cart needs to be flashed from a PC via USB (one game at a time), and all the Everdrives load one game only but offer a selection menu from the SD card to replace it. Seems to me one game in memory is a much simpler design, and there are other ways to switch them without a PC.
 
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Razoola

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One game at a time is much easier for sure. Having a multicart (not flashcart) that has a game swapping method that is identical to a multislot would be god mode however. A seamless game swapping protocol we all know works perfectly in an arcade environment.
 

ki_atsushi

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Why don't shadowkun and razoola just design a cart together? You guys obviously have the know how, and skills to create product and distribute the product. I think having a cart designed by people who are in tight knit with the community would be ideal, since you both obviously have everyone in mind, including active independent developers, and share similar views regarding hardware design.

I would think a kick start would be successful.

This is what I was hinting at when I asked Raz if he was jealous. Since he has so much technical knowledge and so many ideas of what it should be, why doesn't he do one better for us? Or be quiet...
 

Heinz

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I'd be in for a single game loaded flash cart. I think the battery idea is a bad one, we all try very hard to get away from them (some like them...) due to the ongoing maintenance.

Raz can say whatever he wants on this stuff, I think he's got some very good questions. Holders of knowledge can be guiders, not builders ;)
 

Razoola

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Your right lachian. Its like Brunel, he designed the suspension bridge in Bristol, you can be sure if he was the bricky laying the bricks it probably would have crumbled. Just like if the bricky designed the bridge it would have crumbled. I have always been a programmer/designer and not a builder. Both skills are equally important and needed when creating physical things.

There are two ways at approaching building such devices like multicarts/flashcarts/everdrives ets. One is to work from the angle of replacing the ROM with the flash and then working backwards (to get it working on the host system). The other is to work from the host system internals and what you want to happen to replace the ROM with flash. In short if you don't fully know the system your trying to interface with and its software (firmware/bios) your kind of working in the dark until you find a solution that works. Your not hampered by this when going the other way, you can design and build on what you know will be needed to achieve the best result that interfaces perfectly.
 

oliverclaude

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Raz can say whatever he wants on this stuff, I think he's got some very good questions. Holders of knowledge can be guiders, not builders ;)

Of course he can and I agree with your argument, but if I'd offer someone my help as a guider and they'd refuse not wanting me to become part of their team, I'd let go immediately. It's a question of dignity: Raz has our trust & indefinite gratitude for his grand oeuvre dedicated to the Neo-Geo & this forum. His BIOS masterpiece sets him right there to go down in history of this console.

I may lack the details of his relationship to Darksoft & his people, but seeing how they act and how repulsive their attitude is towards Razoola, it looks like he's just humiliating himself on the regular in front of them forcing his unwanted, tough competent, knowledge. I hate to see legends caught up like that. This game is not worth it. For God's sake, he's RAZ. He doesn't have to put up with anything like that. At all.

Of course, if they explicitly & kindly request Raz' invaluable help or did that already -- I'm all for it. If not, then there's no reason to care about them anymore, neither from a distance of a voluntary guider nor a curious professional.
 
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JMKurtz

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I do have a flash cart, but not like what you're thinking... It's standard SNK board but uses flash roms in place of eproms. Quick for me to use since I don't have to erase eproms, but I also have a device programmer handy too.

I think it would be rather simple to build a new set of boards that would be a one-game flash cart. The part I would get stuck at is the USB interface to program the flash roms from a PC. I've never done anything like that, but it's not protected knowledge and there's some guys on here that have done this type of thing, so it could be hammered out with some research. In theory, the boards would be compatible with any game that used SNK's non-protected boards.

Another idea would be to build adapters that sat on top of a set of SNK boards that would interface the standard rom sockets to flash cards (much like actual SNK dev carts) and then program the cards via PC and slide them into place and play - kind of like an MGD3 device.

Jeff


I'm guessing it's been brought up. Kurtz said he has one already. Maybe he could offer guidance, or even be part. Bit it seems like he has a lot going on, on the side.
 

xsq

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The part I would get stuck at is the USB interface to program the flash roms from a PC. I've never done anything like that, but it's not protected knowledge and there's some guys on here that have done this type of thing, so it could be hammered out with some research.
flavor comes to mid... the latest revision of the flashmasta have a USB port to transfer the roms...
 

Razoola

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Looks like darksoft is aiming the first prototypes to be around May time but there is no mention of what specs they are looking to use after all the options they put out there. One thing is now crystal clear, darksoft will be relying on third parties to make hacks (to remove protections/change the games specs) to allow some games to be played. So much for all the 'it will play all original games' hype. I'm really not sure how this will stand up as that aspect is beyond darksofts control and there are still issues with games on other devices he has made. The cps3 fixes have incomplete conversions due to incorrect decryption in places. The same goes for some of the CPS2 games on his device third parties made.

The device as they first envisioned it is moving backwards from the original grand design. I really hope it does not go so far back that the device ends up attaching to an already working modded GeoGeo MVS/AES cart. That would be very sad indeed.
 

Niko

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Looks like darksoft is aiming the first prototypes to be around May time but there is no mention of what specs they are looking to use after all the options they put out there. One thing is now crystal clear, darksoft will be relying on third parties to make hacks (to remove protections/change the games specs) to allow some games to be played. So much for all the 'it will play all original games' hype. I'm really not sure how this will stand up as that aspect is beyond darksofts control and there are still issues with games on other devices he has made. The cps3 fixes have incomplete conversions due to incorrect decryption in places. The same goes for some of the CPS2 games on his device third parties made.

The device as they first envisioned it is moving backwards from the original grand design. I really hope it does not go so far back that the device ends up attaching to an already working modded GeoGeo MVS/AES cart. That would be very sad indeed.

You obviously know more about this than me, so forgive me if this is a stupid question. But whats wrong with just disabling protections and providing decrypted data? Unlike the chinese multicarts they arnt adding any code just bypassing no-oping functions which outside of breaking CRC checks shouldnt have any ill affect right?
 

xsq

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I think the points are:
1) the games are altered, so no "original rom on original hardware" plus the possibilty of bugs.
2) they aren't doing it themselves and therefore rely on other people doing it - which might result in some games not becoming available at all...
[3) deviation from the original proposal.]

but I could be wrong. I'm not that tech knowledgable myself.
 

aha2940

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I think the points are:
1) the games are altered, so no "original rom on original hardware" plus the possibilty of bugs.
2) they aren't doing it themselves and therefore rely on other people doing it - which might result in some games not becoming available at all...
[3) deviation from the original proposal.]

but I could be wrong. I'm not that tech knowledgable myself.

Which games are currently only available in encrypted form? from my research, it seems that ko99 to 2003, MS3 to 5, Garou, Bang bead, Zupapa, Samurai Shodown V and V Special, Nightmare in the Dark, Matrimelee and Ganryu have already been decrypted, which games would be missing?

Regards.
 
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sparksterz

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Yeah...I had picked up an F3 setup in preparation for the future, but with the CPS2 and the Neo Geo work arounds, I'm feeling less confident that the F3 setup won't have drawbacks as well. At least the STV multicart was straightforward no nonsense.
 

Fygee

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What I don't get, and maybe its because I'm not Neo tech savvy, is that we live in a world with multiple 1XX in 1 bootleg carts, with plenty of games that are easily selectable and load instantly. Why not just make a cart in that vein that has all of the official games with good ROM sets, no bootlegs, and reliable hardware? Why over complicate it by having to bother with SD cards, LCD screens, hacked ROMs etc? No loading times. No worries about having to use peripherals. No worries about games being there that would take away from current Neo dev teams. Just put the cart in the slot and go.
 
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greedostick

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What I don't get, and maybe its because I'm not Neo tech savvy, is that we live in a world with multiple 1XX in 1 bootleg carts, with plenty of games that are easily selectable and load instantly. Why not just make a cart in that vein that has all of the official games with good ROM sets, no bootlegs, and reliable hardware? Why over complicate it by having to bother with SD cards, LCD screens, hacked ROMs etc? No loading times. No worries about having to use peripherals. No worries about games being there that would take away from current Neo dev teams. Just put the cart in the slot and go.

Seems like a good idea to me, if we could find someone willing, and do a kickstarter. There's really no reason to even deal with SD cards when there are only a little over 100 games on the Neo. I think everyone would just put them all on there anyway. And if they didn't want them all, it's still better than the 161 in 1 carts filled with crap hacks.

But I think the problem is still that all the ROM need to be altered in order to get them to boot. Which is what all the fuss is about. Because it can make games buggy, and takes a lot of work to try and attempt to fix them all.

Maybe it would be easier on a multi to just throw the real unaltered roms on there, or maybe not. But I would be curious to know if it would be easier/possible.

I would be more than happy to sacrifice an SD card, for a fixed complete unaltered rom set, with a primitive menu. Not like there are a lot of games to scroll through. Basicall holding down, to scroll one at a time, or hitting right to jump 10 at a time would be fine with me.
 
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