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Thread: Voting is up for DarkSofts Neo Geo Multi Cart Design.

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    Ditto, thanks for the informative post.
    Greedo... upto YOU pal...

    Make up you OWN mind... on what YOU see....

    ...i just spent 36 hours on that god awful website... man... at least Schmups and AO have people who make fookin sense...

    I need a bath after I read all through that stuffs...

    xROTx

  2. #77
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    Ok, here's a question:

    How would one go into 'flash mode', as in: prevent the flash/ram loaded game from booting and being able to select another game to be flashed (or loaded into cart RAM)?
    On the flashcarts I have for my MSX's, it's either a button/switch on the cart itself or a keypress on the keyboard during boot.
    Of course the Neo Geo does not have a keyboard and ample keys to choose from to do 'interesting things' during boot without conflicting with other interesting things that other devices/software might have available.
    I believe in math.

  3. #78
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    OK lads...

    10.30pm (GMT)... Im off to bo bo land...

    ...in about 9 hours 30 minutes I log back into the forums...

    If Mitsu doesn't want to reply... well.. you lads all know that it's going to go to hell in a basket...

    xROTx

    PS. You lads can't deny... Ive been pretty reasonable on this one...

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkn55 View Post
    The encrypted roms are titles that were released late in 1998 starting with Slug X and KoF98. It was SNK's attempt to thwart piracy and conversion of less desirable titles into the latest and greatest (i.e. converting World Heroes into Puzzle Bobble). This employed decryption chips on the PROG and/or CHA boards that would decrypt the data into a usable format on neo hardware. This was to stop bootleggers from simply desoldering the rom, making an eprom copy and slapping it onto donor board from an older, non-encrypted title.

    So in order to duplicate a current title, the bootleggers had to do one of two things: reverse engineer the decryption chip in order to use the unmodified roms or decrypt the scrambled data and patch the program rom to bypass the software routines related to decryption. The problem with the second one is careful attention is needed by the crackers to make sure that the game play behavior isn't modified by the changes. When it comes to China specials (boots and multi-carts), they are in the mindset of "works good enough." As long as the game "appears" to play the same, their work is done. If they really cared about making the multis 100%, they would have fixed all the sound glitches and updated the prototype titles like Garou with the final release when they became available.

    Now the bigger problem with the multis is that EVERY game needs to be patched and modified in some way to respond to holding start return to the game select menu. You can verify this by running a CRC check and none of them will pass. It takes time and effort to patch an individual title and if this was a trivial process, we'd already have a 999 in 1 cart with every single title in it along with kof hacks to last a lifetime. Throwing in an extra routine to check for another button press could through off a game's counter that depends on a set of instructions executing in a predetermined number of cycles. You can see here that there are a handful of games that exhibit funky behavior due to this.

    http://wiki.arcadeotaku.com/w/MVS_Multicart

    So what's the problem with patching a rom to run on a multi? Nothing really. But what I see is the main appeal of this product is that people are planning to get it to run games that are not found any multi such as Windjammers, Magician Lord, Matrimelee, Real Bout(s), etc. Otherwise very affordable solutions to play the rest already exist. Now if Darksoft's multicart does not play unmodified roms, his team will need to go through the process of patching every title that exists and/or reuse the pre-patched/potentially buggy code courtesy the existing multi-carts. It is still an enormous effort to patch the 50 or so outstanding titles if they reuse the code from the existing multis. This is the technical answer to why Raz is up in arms about Mitsu's statement about the Darksoft multi playing "original roms." They need to be upfront about what it actually does and needs to be done in order for people to make an informed decision about purchasing. Selling with the promise of future patches to come may be a deal breaker for some as they would prefer to wait until the patches of interest are fully tested and released.
    Thank you for this very insightful post. I unsterstand now where the sticking point is in the proposition of a multicart.

    And rot, while many see me as a rabble-rowser, I believe that opposing voices still have a place, especially ones that have not descended into name calling. That's not my goal. We're all friends here (mostly) and I believe that this can be handled diplomatically.
    It's impossible to be a nice guy on the internet.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    And rot, while many see me as a rabble-rowser, I believe that opposing voices still have a place, especially ones that have not descended into name calling. That's not my goal. We're all friends here (mostly) and I believe that this can be handled diplomatically.
    ..... I don't like your hypocrisy...



    You were there mouthing off LAST time as well (I remember it well...).... You've turned into a little bitch...

  6. #81
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    Shadowkn55's post shared info that I didn't know about before. Suffice it to say, I was wrong about my take on this. But you have to admit, at face value previous interactions between both camps have appeared that you've been in one side's pocket. As youve stated, You and raz have been friends for a while, so there's that.

    I'll cool my jets.
    Last edited by Lemony Vengeance; 01-19-2016 at 06:08 PM.
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  7. #82
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    ...I will NOT support them... and will do what i need to to protect the members here...
    Protect us from what, exactly?

    Do you think we need our hands held like children? We're all adults and can make our own decisions on whether something is worth buying or not. We know how to do our due diligence and research stuff before we buy it, we can wait for reviews on youtube, etc.

    Stop trying to act like our father, dude. And stop letting Raz run his mouth before any details are finalized. You want to talk about being fair? LMAOOOOOO


    P.S.- Good job locking the other thread before any serious discussion could take place.

  9. #84
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    Am I the only one who almost choke on his coffee upon hearing that 400 dollar price figure?
    How does that make sense for a Neo-Geo multicart?

    Donīt get me wrong. I love the ST-V flashcart, I got one and it works great for what it is.
    The CPS2 multicart also makes a lot of sense. There isnīt anything quite like it (other than the super rare 18-in-1) and I heard it works great. Especially seeing as how big and expensive genuine cps2 games are, having one cart to play all of them games makes sense. And I donīt even consider the battery/encryption/dead game worries in that consideration.

    But for Neo Geo the xxx-in-1s are very cheap, they load the games very fast, the game selection may not be complete but there are a lot of games there. if you arent satisfied with a couple different xxx-in-1s and couple cheap original carts and you still need a flashcart to play the rest of the games you are still missing... I donīt think paying 400 for the rest of the games feels much of a big saving. Also, if the cart only stores 1-4 games at a time then I dont think it will be much of a pleasure to use.

    I mean, changing game on the st-v flashcart is a bit of a hassle with all the jumpers and stuff, it takes a couple minutes to load a game for the first time... itīs okay for stv though cause thereīs no nice menu driven fast loading alternative. But if I had to choose between that experience and 161-in-1, especially seeing as you can have 161-in-1 for a fiddy. Thereīs no contest.

    All Iīm saying is this project makes no sense to me. Taito F3 should have been higher priority for one. If someone still likes this and wants to buy it though... by all means go ahead!

    edit: now one very valid use case for this product does come to mind... testing little homebrew games. If this product results in more homebrew development (the kinds that are ok to copy for free) then that is of course a very good thing.
    Last edited by Mendel; 01-19-2016 at 08:23 PM.

  10. #85
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    I agree, so far it's not making sense. As it is, the XXX-in-1's do the same thing on paper for cheaper.

    It is a bit early though, and changes can be made before it's released. I'll just wait for a review to see if it's worth it.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    time is running out

  12. #87
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    If you already have an MVS system and multiple XXX in 1 carts, this doesn't make sense. Since I have a 5V AES wouldn't this be a better option than buying a converter and multiple multi carts?

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyeth View Post
    If you already have an MVS system and multiple XXX in 1 carts, this doesn't make sense. Since I have a 5V AES wouldn't this be a better option than buying a converter and multiple multi carts?
    Best option would be selling your AES and getting a consolized CMVS.
    >

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Best option would be selling your AES and getting a consolized CMVS.
    Haha....I had a feeling someone would say that

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    Quote Originally Posted by madman View Post
    Best option would be selling your AES and getting a consolized CMVS.
    I'm doing that right now actually. MV-1F seems to be the best, not overly big and has built-in joysticks and separate speaker and headphone outputs. Pretty swank.

  16. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyMachineGun View Post
    I'm doing that right now actually. MV-1F seems to be the best, not overly big and has built-in joysticks and separate speaker and headphone outputs. Pretty swank.
    No memory card slot, though. Won't you miss being able to save certain games?

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by aoiddr View Post
    No memory card slot, though. Won't you miss being able to save certain games?
    Did I mention the MV-1F is like 1/2 the cost of a 2-slot board? Also no pesky metal cover to condition and drill. I had a NeoSaveMasta for my AES, I hardly ever used it. With an MVS board set to free play (or a UniBIOS), the memory card is unnecessary.

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    Greedo... upto YOU pal...

    Make up you OWN mind... on what YOU see....

    ...i just spent 36 hours on that god awful website... man... at least Schmups and AO have people who make fookin sense...

    I need a bath after I read all through that stuffs...

    xROTx
    ROT

    Too bad, you have no gills.

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  19. #94
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    YAWN... awake now...

    Ki_tushi...

    Quote Originally Posted by ki_atsushi View Post
    Protect us from what, exactly?
    From the fact that a lot of unanswered questions about the validity of which roms they are using and not all games are compatible with this device...

    It's been advertised as the SAVIOUR project... Z'OMG... it plays EVERYTHING... (but may not play all the games... doh...)

    Do you think we need our hands held like children? We're all adults and can make our own decisions on whether something is worth buying or not. We know how to do our due diligence and research stuff before we buy it, we can wait for reviews on youtube, etc.

    Stop trying to act like our father, dude. And stop letting Raz run his mouth before any details are finalized. You want to talk about being fair? LMAOOOOOO
    You see... the REVERSE argument to that is... "Why didn't one of the mods act when they felt a dodgy project was being created..."... Z'OMG... Hindsight...

    P.S.- Good job locking the other thread before any serious discussion could take place.
    I locked the other thread because 90% was crap... arguing and such like...

    THAT's why I wished a new thread created and would've accepted the project as long as Mitsu and his motley crew... YOU included played ball and just answered the freaking questions without the need for bullshit all the time...

    xROTx

    PS. Times up...

    EDIT: List of disciplinary measures... coming in the next few hours...

    1) Mitsu and all people I have felt have added to the chaos... pm and market place privileges revoked...
    2) All links will be deleted to their website... and anyone deciding to secretly try and post new ones will be subject to harsher punishments...
    3) This thread stays open for discussion about this project... it will be the ONLY one allowed to be used...
    4) Ki_atushi gets SPECIAL treatment for not understanding jack shit about the last 48hours... and how reasonable I have been....

    EXTRA EDIT: Lemony has full privileges maintained... because well... we're friends... and after reviewing things... what he said wasn't so bad

    Ki_atushi is also my friend... but he was dumb... TOO dumb... for me to ignore...

  20. #95
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    I'm not so dumb that I didn't see this juvenile account fuckery coming.

    Come on Rot, I thought we were adults here.

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    P.S.- I don't know Mitsurugi from Adam, so the name change is a lame attempt.

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by ki_ss_ing_Mitsus_ass View Post
    I'm not so dumb that I didn't see this juvenile account fuckery coming.

    Come on Rot, I thought we were adults here.
    OF COURSE we're adults... adults on a gaming website... for nerds..

    Quote Originally Posted by ki_ss_ing_Mitsus_ass View Post
    P.S.- I don't know Mitsurugi from Adam, so the name change is a lame attempt.
    ...Yeah.. I amused myself... I had ALREADY told everyone what would happen... why do you think THEY kept their head under the paraphet..

    xROTx

    PS. I might change it back one day... and give you back full privileges.. but it wouldn't feel right now... seeing as I put so much effort into it....

  23. #98
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    I thought this was neo-geo.com though, not rot-geo. But do what you will, I don't care.

    I'm not the only one tired of your shenanigans though, I'm just one of the only ones who will speak up.

    I think you're a good dude, Rot, I really do... but you're not mod material. Sorry. Grow a thicker skin (and REAL impartiality while you're at it).

  24. #99
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    I turned off signatures. So should you.

  25. #100
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    Can I be a mod now?
    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    This place is a pool of toxic garbage. A bunch of old, grumpy, hateful, negative, hater assholes that don't even play Neo Geo.

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