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Thread: Voting is up for DarkSofts Neo Geo Multi Cart Design.

  1. #26
    Calvin & Hobbes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fygee View Post
    Sweet buttery Jesus people, lets just keep it to technical discussion and stop being so emotional and personal with each other. We can all benefit from this as a community, and it would be to our benefit if we can provide constructive feedback and suggestions to them either here or there. Razoola's comments are especially worthwhile because he's knows his shit, regardless of whether you agree or disagree with him.

    At any rate, for the poll I voted for option 1. Using FPGA to have drastically faster loading times, having a battery to store the games in memory for two days, and having a faux multi-cart experience for those who use AES or CMVS systems seems to be the most appealing option for me, even if its pricier.
    I SAID that already... No everyone SHUSH... I want Mitsu to post the multiple choice of...

    1) Yes... let's all play nice... and get this thing going... with Rots support...

    or...

    2) NO... Let's NOT play nice... and be subject to a very annoyed azn...

    xROTx

    PS. Options Options... options... It's like double jeopardy....

    EDIT: Fygee dude... I know you were trying to help out... but in all honesty... I'm not interested in "filler" posts... I want direct answers... so I can move on with this thread... kthx...

  2. #27
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    Look everyone, I love most of ya guyz as much as I love HnR. But most of you need to stop getting your panties in a bunch every time someone tries to bring up valid technical points, regardless of any perceived jealously or otherwise bad blood. Answering these questions instead of being butt hurt is part of the territory when releasing any new product especially when there already exists methods to do the same thing. What you really need to do is emphasize what's different than the status quo.

    Case in point, the J64 currently on kickstarter. Playing imports on an N64 is not a new idea. There are two practical ways to go about it that were both presented in the campaign. However, what's different is that it tries to be a more elegant solution compared the aforementioned methods and nothing more. People are still welcome to use the old methods as they see fit and we certainly won't cry foul if they decide against the J64. Lay down the facts instead of dodging the question. People are smart enough to make an informed decision when all the options are presented in the table.

  3. #28
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    I just PM'd Mitsurugi, and Dark Soft on their forums, and linked this thread asking them to come answer some questions. So hopefully you guys can get some answers.

    I am going to PM Kurtz as well.

    Beaten in 2017: Not a Damn thing! But the Year is Still Young.

    Close to Completion:
    Bravely Default - Skyrim (pc) - Dragon Quest IX -

    Games I can't beat that make me violent:
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  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    I just PM'd Mitsurugi, and Dark Soft on their forums, and linked this thread asking them to come answer some questions. So hopefully you guys can get some answers.
    WOO HOO!!!!

    I am going to PM Kurtz as well.
    ...eerr... why? I'm GENUINELY curious...

    xROTx

    PS. Time to flex.... /mod war'z....

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    WOO HOO!!!!



    ...eerr... why? I'm GENUINELY curious...

    xROTx

    PS. Time to flex.... /mod war'z....
    Well, I am out of the loop a bit, but I was under the impression JMKurtz had a big hand in creating Knight's Chance, which will probably be able to be flashed to this cart. Some people mentioned this in the beginning of this post, so I thought maybe he would like to know this, if he doesn't already, and state his position.

    Beaten in 2017: Not a Damn thing! But the Year is Still Young.

    Close to Completion:
    Bravely Default - Skyrim (pc) - Dragon Quest IX -

    Games I can't beat that make me violent:
    Solomon's Key (nes) (fuck Solomon and his damn key) - Festers Quest - R-Type - Ghost Pilots


    [B]

  6. #31
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    Greedostick: The Neo Geo diplomat.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    Well, I am out of the loop a bit, but I was under the impression JMKurtz had a big hand in creating Knight's Chance, which will probably be able to be flashed to this cart. Some people mentioned this in the beginning of this post, so I thought maybe he would like to know this, if he doesn't already, and state his position.
    Jeff is Tech mod... and someone I respect beyond doubt...

    ..Infact... when it comes to tech things... i'd defer to him... but YOU ask him about NG.com politics... I'm pretty sure he'll tell you what I'm just about to tell you...

    He's tired of it...

    xROTx

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    Jeff is Tech mod... and someone I respect beyond doubt...

    ..Infact... when it comes to tech things... i'd defer to him... but YOU ask him about NG.com politics... I'm pretty sure he'll tell you what I'm just about to tell you...

    He's tired of it...

    xROTx
    Well who isn't ROT? It's a bunch of people arguing about details that no matter what, are going to surface. It's like ranting on Facebook about politics. Doesn't matter what you say, what's inevitable to happen, can and will happen. There are so many perspectives, an agreement that pleases everyone will never be met unfortunately.

    I mentioned before about shelvies being disgruntal their games are going to devalue, and repro makers are going to be upset someone might flash a metal slug instead of paying $500.00 for their conversion. That right there is 98% of the problem, and it is hidden in lies by these people who state multi carts are illegal, and immoral, when they really don't give a shit about anything but $$$. The other 2% are people with genuine concerns like NG Dev, who create quality products that appeal to retro gamers. I respect what people like them do, because it helps keep the Neo Geo alive, and interesting.

    But back to alive and interesting. What I think it comes down to, is that these games are part of our history. People have deep ties to them, and they are a big part of their life for whatever reason. Just like old paintings, comic books, music, etc.. people should be able to enjoy these games, as accurately as possible, for as many generations as possible, as it is part of history. Maybe even a more significant piece then we all will ever know. Our generation is just the beginning of an era. I think this Neo Flash has a great potential to let current, and future generations enjoy this piece of history for a very long time.

    Regardless of whether this goes into production or not, it is inevitable that this will happen, and it doesn't matter what anyone says, or does. If this never see production, someone would do it in silence in China, or somewhere else. The destiny of the Neo Geo, and every other console ever created, is to be emulated, enjoyed, and appreciated by fans, who are tired of the creators of the games losing source, and in general just not caring about the history they have created.

    In summary, people have forgotten what gaming is, and turned it into a collectors hobby. Let the world turn as it is destined to do. Quit slowing things down. It's like a church putting scientific research in absolute zero back in the day.
    Last edited by greedostick; 01-18-2016 at 04:29 PM.

    Beaten in 2017: Not a Damn thing! But the Year is Still Young.

    Close to Completion:
    Bravely Default - Skyrim (pc) - Dragon Quest IX -

    Games I can't beat that make me violent:
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  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    Well who isn't ROT? It's a bunch of people arguing about details that no matter what, are going to surface. It's like ranting on Facebook about politics. Doesn't matter what you say, what's inevitable to happen, can and will happen. There are so many perspectives, and agreement that pleases everyone will never be met unfortunately.

    I mentioned before about shelvies being disgruntal their games are going to devalue, and repro makers are going to be upset someone might flash a metal slug instead of paying $500.00 for their conversion. That right there is 98% of the problem, and it is hidden in lies by these people who state multi carts are illegal, and immoral, when they really don't give a shit about anything but $$$. The other 2% are people with genuine concerns like NG Dev, who create quality products that appeal to retro gamers. I respect what people like them do, because it helps keep the Neo Geo alive, and interesting.

    But back to alive and interesting. What I think it comes down to, is that these games are part of our history. People have deep ties to them, and they are a big part of their life for whatever reason. Just like old paintings, comic books, music, etc.. people should be able to enjoy these games, as accurately as possible, for as many generations as possible, as it is part of history. Maybe even a more significant piece then we all will ever know. Our generation is just the beginning of an era. I think this Neo Flash has a great potential to let current, and future generations enjoy this piece of history for a very long time.

    Regardless of whether this goes into production or not, it is inevitable that this will happen, and it doesn't matter what anyone says, or does. If this never see production, someone would do it in silence in China, or somewhere else. The destiny of the Neo Geo, and every other console ever created, is to be emulated, enjoyed, and appreciated by fans, who are tired of the creators of the games losing source, and in general just not caring about the history they have created.
    HEY Greedo...

    Relax man... I'm awesome relaxed atm... You see... I don't mind forum politics and stuff...

    ...Here's the SECRET.... I made a choice... and I'll prob stick to it... the choice is this:

    1) Mitsu... Darksoft... ANYONE that was fooked over during the last fuckfest will be let free... AS LONG as they CONSTRUCTIVELY join in the site...

    This means playing ball.. answering questions... and providing a good service to the whackos here... in RETURN... they have me off their back... (unless they do something dumb... NOT advisable...)

    2) They decide NOT to play ball... and feel they don't need to be here...

    xROTx

    PS. Greedo... you're talking about things that I know already... and to be frank...

    A) I KNOW the project is good for the community... hence they get the deal... (EVEN tho... i find them arrogant and almost childlike in the way they're going about this..)
    B) ALL they had to do FIRST time was address a few issues (mainly with Raz)... and they would've got my support... yet they chose not too...
    C) I have NEVER had this problems with NTM... Yodd... Lemony... Raz... Xian Xi... as they're mature enough to know how to manage a tech project like this...

    Pfft... kids...

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rot View Post
    HEY Greedo...

    Relax man... I'm awesome relaxed atm... You see... I don't mind forum politics and stuff...

    ...Here's the SECRET.... I made a choice... and I'll prob stick to it... the choice is this:

    1) Mitsu... Darksoft... ANYONE that was fooked over during the last fuckfest will be let free... AS LONG as they CONSTRUCTIVELY join in the site...

    This means playing ball.. answering questions... and providing a good service to the whackos here... in RETURN... they have me off their back... (unless they do something dumb... NOT advisable...)

    2) They decide NOT to play ball... and feel they don't need to be here...

    xROTx

    PS. Greedo... you're talking about things that I know already... and to be frank...

    A) I KNOW the project is good for the community... hence they get the deal... (EVEN tho... i find them arrogant and almost childlike in the way they're going about this..)
    B) ALL they had to do FIRST time was address a few issues (mainly with Raz)... and they would've got my support... yet they chose not too...
    C) I have NEVER had this problems with NTM... Yodd... Lemony... Raz... Xian Xi... as they're mature enough to know how to manage a tech project like this...

    Pfft... kids...
    I'm cool. Maybe I am a little out of the loop why all the tension. Obviously I am I guess. I am more of a sporadic member these days, and don't know all the, or any of the details of the last issue. I just though people were upset for other reasons.

    May the Schwartz be with you.

    Beaten in 2017: Not a Damn thing! But the Year is Still Young.

    Close to Completion:
    Bravely Default - Skyrim (pc) - Dragon Quest IX -

    Games I can't beat that make me violent:
    Solomon's Key (nes) (fuck Solomon and his damn key) - Festers Quest - R-Type - Ghost Pilots


    [B]

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    Well who isn't ROT? It's a bunch of people arguing about details that no matter what, are going to surface. It's like ranting on Facebook about politics. Doesn't matter what you say, what's inevitable to happen, can and will happen. There are so many perspectives, an agreement that pleases everyone will never be met unfortunately.

    I mentioned before about shelvies being disgruntal their games are going to devalue, and repro makers are going to be upset someone might flash a metal slug instead of paying $500.00 for their conversion. That right there is 98% of the problem, and it is hidden in lies by these people who state multi carts are illegal, and immoral, when they really don't give a shit about anything but $$$. The other 2% are people with genuine concerns like NG Dev, who create quality products that appeal to retro gamers. I respect what people like them do, because it helps keep the Neo Geo alive, and interesting.

    But back to alive and interesting. What I think it comes down to, is that these games are part of our history. People have deep ties to them, and they are a big part of their life for whatever reason. Just like old paintings, comic books, music, etc.. people should be able to enjoy these games, as accurately as possible, for as many generations as possible, as it is part of history. Maybe even a more significant piece then we all will ever know. Our generation is just the beginning of an era. I think this Neo Flash has a great potential to let current, and future generations enjoy this piece of history for a very long time.

    Regardless of whether this goes into production or not, it is inevitable that this will happen, and it doesn't matter what anyone says, or does. If this never see production, someone would do it in silence in China, or somewhere else. The destiny of the Neo Geo, and every other console ever created, is to be emulated, enjoyed, and appreciated by fans, who are tired of the creators of the games losing source, and in general just not caring about the history they have created.

    In summary, people have forgotten what gaming is, and turned it into a collectors hobby. Let the world turn as it is destined to do. Quit slowing things down. It's like a church putting scientific research in absolute zero back in the day.
    I agree with some of this, but I'd also argue this will only drive original games even further from reach of the common man. More people will be exposed to the neo and eventually they will want the real deal. Not that it matters really, but these and other arcade games were never meant to be easily obtainable in the first place. Sure we have the tech now, but even with everdrives and repros available for many platforms the price of games continues to trend on the upwards.
    Either way I'm interested to see how this project turns out, and I'll continue to stroke my 120 in 1 lovingly for the cheap whore it is.

  12. #37
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    Thanks greedostick for letting me know about this thread... Yes, I had a very big hand in developing Knight's Chance (and other stuff not yet announced).

    I'm okay with a flash cart for the Neo Geo.

    I am *not* okay with Knight's Chance being available for the flash cart or openly traded/available as a ROM. KC is not out of print or abandoned. There's still future plans for the IP.

    Knight's Chance does have a form of copy protection so getting it to "run" in/on different hardware than it was designed is a violation of DMCA. Each build of KC is serialized and code scrambled so each version of the data is completely unique and therefore would be VERY EASY to track down how it makes it to the Internet.

    I would like the flash cart for my own testing, but it's really pointless to me as I already have a flash cart that I test dev builds with, but I would buy one for the novelty.

    That's just my .02 on the subject.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMKurtz View Post
    Thanks greedostick for letting me know about this thread... Yes, I had a very big hand in developing Knight's Chance (and other stuff not yet announced).

    I'm okay with a flash cart for the Neo Geo.

    I am *not* okay with Knight's Chance being available for the flash cart or openly traded/available as a ROM. KC is not out of print or abandoned. There's still future plans for the IP.

    Knight's Chance does have a form of copy protection so getting it to "run" in/on different hardware than it was designed is a violation of DMCA. Each build of KC is serialized and code scrambled so each version of the data is completely unique and therefore would be VERY EASY to track down how it makes it to the Internet.

    I would like the flash cart for my own testing, but it's really pointless to me as I already have a flash cart that I test dev builds with, but I would buy one for the novelty.

    That's just my .02 on the subject.
    Here's a question, would you consider selling the ROM to members so they do have a way to play it? I would gladly pay for a clean rom, then I could decide if I did want to pick up a real copy, if it is ever available again.

    Beaten in 2017: Not a Damn thing! But the Year is Still Young.

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    Bravely Default - Skyrim (pc) - Dragon Quest IX -

    Games I can't beat that make me violent:
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  14. #39
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    Clean rom? Wtf man, JMK just said he doesn't want the rom out. Don't rock the boat ;-p.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wyndcrosser View Post
    Clean rom? Wtf man, JMK just said he doesn't want the rom out. Don't rock the boat ;-p.
    He also said every ROM is unique, and can be tracked if leaked to the internet. I am assuming he will not, but I would assume a ROM would be traceable, just as a cart that was dumped would be. Since it's really the same thing, just in digital form.

    Yeah, a long shot.

    Beaten in 2017: Not a Damn thing! But the Year is Still Young.

    Close to Completion:
    Bravely Default - Skyrim (pc) - Dragon Quest IX -

    Games I can't beat that make me violent:
    Solomon's Key (nes) (fuck Solomon and his damn key) - Festers Quest - R-Type - Ghost Pilots


    [B]

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMKurtz View Post
    Thanks greedostick for letting me know about this thread... Yes, I had a very big hand in developing Knight's Chance (and other stuff not yet announced).

    I'm okay with a flash cart for the Neo Geo.

    I am *not* okay with Knight's Chance being available for the flash cart or openly traded/available as a ROM. KC is not out of print or abandoned. There's still future plans for the IP.

    Knight's Chance does have a form of copy protection so getting it to "run" in/on different hardware than it was designed is a violation of DMCA. Each build of KC is serialized and code scrambled so each version of the data is completely unique and therefore would be VERY EASY to track down how it makes it to the Internet.

    I would like the flash cart for my own testing, but it's really pointless to me as I already have a flash cart that I test dev builds with, but I would buy one for the novelty.

    That's just my .02 on the subject.
    So, Jeff, from what you wrote I understand that KC already has its own protection method, and creating a cart that works with original Neo releases (from NAM to SSVS) will not automatically make KC work with it, right? IOW, for KC to play on a multicart you have to explicitly put code/hardware/whatever in the cart to decode KC and play it, is that correct?

  17. #42
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    This thread is about the flashcart and Jeff has made his view very clear. Jeff has said is Knights Chance has a copy protection and that is all you need to know really. It comes down to what darksoft will do in relations to that given he has already said he does not care, I hope he has a change of heart towards homebrew work. I don't know if Mitsu shares the same view as he as not responded yet to either of my queries.
    Last edited by Razoola; 01-19-2016 at 02:18 AM.
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
    This thread is about the flashcart and Jeff has made his view very clear. Jeff has said is Knights Chance has a copy protection and that is all you need to know really. It comes down to what darksoft will do in relations to that given he has already said he does not care, I hope he has a change of heart towards homebrew work. I don't know if Mitsu shares the same view as he as not responded yet to either of my queries.
    So, their focus is on making all ORIGINAL games playable..

    Why is homebrew still coming up?
    It's impossible to be a nice guy on the internet.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razoola View Post
    This thread is about the flashcart and Jeff has made his view very clear. Jeff has said is Knights Chance has a copy protection and that is all you need to know really. It comes down to what darksoft will do in relations to that given he has already said he does not care, I hope he has a change of heart towards homebrew work. I don't know if Mitsu shares the same view as he as not responded yet to either of my queries.
    They have been posting in the darksoft forums all day and never came here or responded to any pms. Im sure you saw the comments. I dont think its a consideration. The KC thing. But it looks like kurtz saw this pissibky coming, or the dumping of his rom. So i guess that part doesnt matter.

    It looks like neo dev and KC wont work on this thing so thats good.

    Beaten in 2017: Not a Damn thing! But the Year is Still Young.

    Close to Completion:
    Bravely Default - Skyrim (pc) - Dragon Quest IX -

    Games I can't beat that make me violent:
    Solomon's Key (nes) (fuck Solomon and his damn key) - Festers Quest - R-Type - Ghost Pilots


    [B]

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by greedostick View Post
    They have been posting in the darksoft forums all day and never came here or responded to any pms.
    24 Hours... I wish a response in that time...

    MITSU... Darksoft... IDC... these are the choices:

    1) Be a Viable and sensible part of our tech community.... selling and developing your wares... FOR that... you get what you want... a decent seed site with footfall...

    OR...

    2) Feel you don't want to play here.. in which case... I start to consider the fact that you are cutting off your nose to spite your face... FOR That... I start re-evaluating your project here on NG.com...

    xROTx

    PS. I'd DEFO prefer you taking option 1....

    EDIT: I'll repeat... 24 hours...

  21. #46
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    Lemony, darksoft has said he does not care about about this game, I am asking Mitsu if he shares that same view.

    This is a commercial homebrew game just like the NGDEV games and as Jeff has pointed out he has other games in the works. darksoft has said he contacted NGDEV, would it not be fair he gave other homebrew makers that same courtesy? He clearly feels not, it was only after I brought this up with him before and suggested he contact NGDEV that he did after all. This kind of intervention should not be required in the first place.

    I am not against this flashcart by any means, I will buy one myself and like Jeff says, he will not be the first to make such a device. What I would love to see however in relation to homebrew is some respect given to homebrew by the makers. It is these people who after all have played a large part to make the NeoGeo scene what it is today. Whether it be game makers, those who make hardware mods and even larger than life characters who bring fun to the scene that help keep it going. It should be top priority to keep those pillars in a strong standing rather than to walk over them.

    Am I saying darksoft should spend much money to keep these homebrews IP safe in his design? No I am not, although it would take no cost to put something in the design to make the flashcart detectable from original carts. I am saying it does not shine a good light when he publically shows no respect for these peoples work whether it be in his actions or things he says. What would be nice to see instead is darksoft being out spoken in protecting the NeoGeo homebrew scene.

    Raz
    Last edited by Razoola; 01-19-2016 at 03:44 AM.
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  22. #47
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    I have just noticed that darksoft and Mitsu have answered one of my queries in their forum.

    This point at least can be put to bed now. Despites comments to the contrary from darksoft and Mitsu we now know the flashcart will not be using original ROMs for many games as previously implied. Like the current multicarts it will rely on patched versions, does this mean also limited to the prototype versions of some games, yes unfortunately.

    While the flashcart will be better than a multicart in that you can choose the game you play, you will still be limited to the same level of game as the multicarts offer, it will not be original games for many of the newer games. For some this will not be an issue, for others it might be given the price premium between both.

    Darksoft, your comment about RAM is a little alarming if you decide not add it, I think you are not yet aware of what that would mean in relation to a few games. It would be advisable if you take some time to fully understand the later games instead of thinking all can be solved by patching. If you don't you will end up with a device that cannot play some games the current multicarts can.

    Regardless, I thank both of you for making how your device will work a little clearer for everyone, just a pity you would not respond here, ROT seemed very genuine to me if his offer to you guys. I hope this thread can stay open though so you have the ability to chim in if you have a change of heart. Its also good to have a thread here where a solid grounded view can be maintained of your device going forward.
    Last edited by Razoola; 01-20-2016 at 03:37 AM.
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  23. #48
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    OK... as an EXTRA caveat... I will ask Raz... to tone down his approach to this project and let the other members chime in with their concerns and tech questions.. (it's gotten FAR too personal for my Azn ass atm...)

    However, I will add that you have only 18 hours left to accept my proposal... that's 8am GMT... about the time I get into work...

    xROTx

    PS. I would advise you SERIOUSLY consider this... I won't make threats... it's pointless....

    EDIT: What will be will be... after the 18 hours is up...

  24. #49
    King's Bartender
    Lemony Vengeance's Avatar
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    My statement above is not only my own, but something mitsurugi stated on his forum. You have access to the thread, you should know that.
    It's impossible to be a nice guy on the internet.

  25. #50
    Calvin & Hobbes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemony Vengeance View Post
    My statement above is not only my own, but something mitsurugi stated on his forum. You have access to the thread, you should know that.
    Lemony... I'm asking for EVERYONE to tone it down atm...

    Just relax pal... Let's see and wait for Mitsus response... I mean... it's a fair offer...

    ..If they agree.. I'll make sure everyone plays ball... they'll have my support upto a point... hence, a form of protection...

    xROTx

    PS. I can't be any fairer than that... can I now?

    EDIT: Everyone knows what is likely to happen if they don't wish to be here... but why worry about shit that hasn't happened yet man...

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