Voting is up for DarkSofts Neo Geo Multi Cart Design.

xsq · Mar 10, 2016

so... who do we need to convince? NTM, Kurtz?

Razoola · Mar 10, 2016

I am already busy with projects so there is that to consider also. Those two guys are top notch though.

Fygee · Mar 10, 2016

I shall remain ever hopeful. If you and any other solid Neo community members were to make this a reality, it would be one of the best hardware developments for the Neo since the UniBIOS.

Razoola · Mar 16, 2016

darksoft has given another update.

He states the device will now be a mixture of both flash and ddr ram (sound on flash, graphics and program on ram). About 10 second loading times each power on. He is not clear on if the sound is flashed every power on and if it is required (because of game change) if this will increase the power on loading time. The firmware on the device will be upgradeable.

The downside. He states again it will support all games supported by MAME, this is very vague and I wish he would avoid using such language as it is inaccurate by his own earlier admissions unless something has changed. He has said himself previously that it will be down to other people to patch games to work on his Neo Geo device. This means all games are not supported until such times as someone else releases a patch to make a game work which may never happen. Given this has not even happened for his CPS-2 device, I don't see how he can be sure some people will patch all the NeoGeo MAME games and revisions to his Neo Geo device.

Apart from this one issue I'm sure some will be happy with the way its going and others not so. Personally I'm interested to know weather the RAM parts of his device can be written to and alterd from the NeoGeo side. It may be a nice feature if it can be.

Nostromo · Mar 16, 2016

He just confirmed that games need patching to work. My guess, all of them.

greedostick · Mar 16, 2016

I'm definitely not liking the way this us sounding. I got all excited for a real Neo sd cart, and my dreams are being shattered. I just want to not gave to spend hundreds on every mvs game I want now.

Razoola · Mar 16, 2016

Nostromo said:
He just confirmed that games need patching to work. My guess, all of them.

It won't be quite that bad (unless something is inherently wrong in his design) but certainly all game from kof98 on will need patching and other things changed to make work. There is still the protection issue related to the NEO-CMC which he has not yet commented on really, the one that cannot simply be worked around by patching the game ROM.

Nostromo · Mar 16, 2016

I wouldn't sell of my MVS collection just yet...

PSICODROMO · Mar 17, 2016

and wich is the problem to patch every game?

Razoola · Mar 17, 2016

There is no problem to patch every game if that's how you want to do it, no problem there what so ever. It is misleading however to say every Neo Geo game in MAME is supported by the device before any of the games have actually been patched and confirmed working, I'm sure you can see this point.

Raz

Nostromo · Mar 17, 2016

As in there is a risk that no one bothers to patch the roms and you'd end up with a not very useful, expensive device?

xsq · Mar 17, 2016

that and it's not really the original rom on real hardware... it's hacked roms, which might need testing and maybe won't play 100% like the real deal. That doesn't have to be a deal breaker though.

Nostromo · Mar 17, 2016

Is it even possible to have a similar device which deals with untouched roms, just like everdrive?

PSICODROMO · Mar 17, 2016

if what is showed on screen is identical to an original game I don't see the problem to apply a patch.

Razoola · Mar 17, 2016

Nostromo said:
Is it even possible to have a similar device which deals with untouched roms, just like everdrive?

Yes that is possible but its complex to do and on this point I do agree with darksoft, it's easier to patch roms. Then there is the legal situation because your going to have to circumvent copy protections used after 2001 to protect games. darksoft is going to need to circumvent one of these protections anyway on his device even building it the way he currently plans if he wants all game support for released SNK versions of games. He can't really say the legal situation has meant he has had to build it the way he is. I don't think darksoft has used the legal situation as a reason for doing things like he is though has he.

Razoola · Mar 17, 2016

PSICODROMO said:
if what is showed on screen is identical to an original game I don't see the problem to apply a patch.

Neither do I. The issue raised earlier related to patching is something you have not yet grasped.

PSICODROMO · Mar 17, 2016

I see this point, but I don't consider this how a serious issue, peharps this can cause some confusion. Once patched roms you can have the full set of Neo Geo fully playable on real hardware, exactly the same as original games on the screen.

Razoola · Mar 17, 2016

Yes, it does cause confusion and we don't want that. Keeping information clear will make it easier for everyone what his device is actually doing and not doing.

You assume that all games can be patched, I can tell you it is naïve to assume all games can be patched to work without special features included on the device, especially when one is not so knowledgeable with the games and the protections systems they use. I do understand why you would think it would be that easy however because you have been led to believe this.

I can tell you however it is not a case of simple addresses patching here and there, physical data will need moving around in the ROM for example on some games. I know this because I was the person who worked around these protections in the first instance to allow these games to be emulated.

Llama · Mar 17, 2016

Razoola said:
Keeping information clear will make it easier for everyone what his device is actually doing and not doing.

In the end, this is the most important part of this in order to make an informed decision on whether or not to buy this thing.

Razoola · Mar 17, 2016

darksoft now reports its two regions and not one which will be flash, both Z80 and FIX.

bloodhokuto · Mar 22, 2016

OK I don't know much at all about this kind of thing, but anyway here goes.

Those 161 in 1s etc that you currently can get, contain a mish-mash of games, and some games are a little buggy.

That said, they really aren't that bad I don't think.

if one of these multi-carts was hacked to contain only the original games (i.e not several versions of KOFs etc), and used some better components, wouldn't this be just as good as what is proposed?

Razoola · Mar 23, 2016

They really aren't bad at all for the price given there is no guarantee darksofts device will be any better as its going to rely on hacks also just like the multicarts anyway.

A mulicart with all the games on working is the best solution over an everdrive or flashcart if your after the full neogeo games library and don't want to buy every game separately. There is no reason why such a device can not be upgradeable to include new games either if it were needed.

xsq · Mar 23, 2016

bloodhokuto said:
if one of these multi-carts was hacked to contain only the original games and used some better components

someone needs to go Shia LaBeouf with that already. I can't stand hearing about it all the time and nothing happening.

donluca · Mar 23, 2016

Same here.

And the part that irritates me most is that it shouldn't be a difficult feat since you just have to dump the memory chips, look for and isolate the hacked ROMS and replace them with ROMS of the same size or smaller (padding the smaller ones should absolutely work fine).

I don't have the tools to dump (nor knowledge, for that matter) those chips, but the process should be quite straightforward.

I'd do this with a 138-in-1 since it has "good" roms (the 161-in-1 has modified roms to work with the 1P+2P trick to get back to the main menu): dump the chips, use any tool to look for the data of known good ROMS and isolate them, so you know at which address they start and at which they end. This way you've isolated the hacked ROMS too. At this point, just replace the hacked roms with good ones by swapping them with one of the same size or smaller and pad the smaller ones so that they end at the same address as the previous one.

Again, I have mostly no knowledge about how NeoGeo accesses data on a cartridge, so I might have said a bunch of nonsensical things, but, hey, we gotta start somewhere, don't we?

Razoola · Mar 23, 2016

Its not quite that simple because both carts work in different ways by design. You can't take a game from one and put it in the other and expect it will work just like that for the games your talking. Really a new multicart is needed with a new spec which is different from both the 138in1 and the 161in1. Like you say though it's not hard to achieve on paper at least

Voting is up for DarkSofts Neo Geo Multi Cart Design.

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