Emulation vs Non-Emulation

I've never really fully understood emulation vs non-emulation. I'd like some people with depth of understanding to help me out here.

I'll tell you what I know, then you can correct or rearrange the pieces of understanding that I have.

For the sake of verbiage, we'll call non-emu games "genuine".

I know that if a game is on a cart, it's genuine? If it's a ROM on a PC or in a modded XBOX it's emulation.

But what about games like SNK Classics Vol 1, Samurai Shodown Anthology, Etc?

What about games available for download like Metal Slug 3 on PS4? Mario 64 on WiiU? Under Defeat on PS3? Are all digital or disc based games emulation?

Think about Super Mario Allstars Collection on both Wii and SNES. Are those emulations or genuine? The SNES version is a cartridge so does that mean the that the games are genuine but the games on the Wii disc are emulated?

What are the differences/merits/demerits of emulation vs genuine? What constitutes the makeup of a genuine game vs emulation?

I bought my PS3 when Sony announced it was removing the Emotion Engine in early 2007. Supposedly, the PS2 playback would soon be emulated like the Xbox 360 playback of original Xbox titles. Didn't know what that meant but it sounded artificial and I didn't want that.

Now, with this new Mega Man collection on PS4, I'm hearing that they are also just emulations. What's happening to genuine games? How do you know how to spot the difference in old, new, or upcoming releases?

Thanks for shedding any light dudes. Many of you are the go-to for this kind of thing.

Sherlin said:

I've never really fully understood emulation vs non-emulation. I'd like some people with depth of understanding to help me out here.

I'll tell you what I know, then you can correct or rearrange the pieces of understanding that I have.

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These are all arbitrary and in the eye of the beholder but here's my responses.

For the sake of verbiage, we'll call non-emu games "genuine".

I know that if a game is on a cart, it's genuine? If it's a ROM on a PC or in a modded XBOX it's emulation.

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Some things like repro carts or flash carts (we'll take NES for example) may use replacement chips to emulate the function of the mapper/accelerator chips originally on the cartridge. This can and does lead to some differences between an original cartridge and a repro using different parts.

And yes, a ROM is emulating the entire console plus mappers.

But what about games like SNK Classics Vol 1, Samurai Shodown Anthology, Etc?

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These are emulations. They're games running the original ROM information on other game consoles emulating the hardware.

What about games available for download like Metal Slug 3 on PS4? Mario 64 on WiiU? Under Defeat on PS3? Are all digital or disc based games emulation?

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Not sure about PS4 Metal Slug 3 or Under Defeat. I don't have a PS4, haven't tried them. These could be ports. I can verify that Mario 64 on WiiU is an emulation.

Think about Super Mario Allstars Collection on both Wii and SNES. Are those emulations or genuine? The SNES version is a cartridge so does that mean the that the games are genuine but the games on the Wii disc are emulated?

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So Super Mario All-Stars on SNES is a port of those original Mario games for SNES. The Wii version is emulating the SNES version.

What are the differences/merits/demerits of emulation vs genuine? What constitutes the makeup of a genuine game vs emulation?

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Genuine is in the eye of the beholder. If it's a legal copy, emulated or not to me it's genuine, but it may not be original. Emulation doesn't always give you the 100% identical experience of playing on the original hardware/media. In the case of some systems (use the Genesis for example), variations between different versions of the original hardware give you different sound. These things can be hard to perfectly replicate.

I bought my PS3 when Sony announced it was removing the Emotion Engine in early 2007. Supposedly, the PS2 playback would soon be emulated like the Xbox 360 playback of original Xbox titles. Didn't know what that meant but it sounded artificial and I didn't want that.

Click to expand...

The emotion engine was a chip in the PS2, used to aide the PS3 in emulating PS2 games.

Now, with this new Mega Man collection on PS4, I'm hearing that they are also just emulations. What's happening to genuine games? How do you know how to spot the difference in old, new, or upcoming releases?

Thanks for shedding any light dudes. Many of you are the go-to for this kind of thing.

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Any game newly programmed and compiled for that hardware seems to be what you're referring to as a genuine game. Porting an old game takes a lot more effort GENERALLY than emulating it. There are some exceptions like the Sega Saturn where the original hardware was so complicated most "Saturn games" you see on modern consoles (Panzer Dragoon, Nights, etc) are ports rather than emulated versions but that's the exception rather than the rule.

That was beautiful. Just beautiful. Thanks for taking the time. I guess one thing that I wasn't aware of was "ports". I didn't realize they could be emulated or non-emulated.

Lots to think about...

Speaking of games that are ports.....what about cross-platform titles such as Call of Duty or newly developed digital downloads that release same day on all systems....are those just considered a port and not having a truly genuine version?

Sherlin said:

That was beautiful. Just beautiful. Thanks for taking the time. I guess one thing that I wasn't aware of was "ports". I didn't realize they could be emulated or non-emulated.

Lots to think about...

Speaking of games that are ports.....what about cross-platform titles such as Call of Duty or newly developed digital downloads that release same day on all systems....are those just considered a port and not having a truly genuine version?

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So modern games are often developed around an engine or framework. That engine or framework is frequently ported to multiple consoles with tweaks made for performance specific to each piece of hardware. The individual games are then tweaked on a console by console basis, usually by another team than the core developers and released. If John Madden 2015 is made for PS4 and XboxOne. Both versions derive from a core team that develops the game around this framework then a separate team usually handles tightening up the individual versions. These aren't ports in that their originals running the original framework.

Here are a number of links to various forum threads that contain a lot of opinions regarding old game compilations and ports. This could be helpful to you if you are trying to decide whether or not to purchase an original game or the emulated version on a compilation.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120808053302/http://www.cave-stg.com/?p=800

http://vgcollect.com/forum/index.php?topic=3023.0

http://psx-scene.com/forums/f20/help-build-list-2d-240p-retro-port-games-117258/

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?250423-Arcade-Ports-vs-Arcade-Emulation&highlight=ports

To me, there's scene emulation and official emulation.

Scene emulation is usually built from the outside in, and takes a game and then builds an engine to use it that tries to replicate what one sees on real hardware.
Scene emulation is inaccurate, and getting full accuracy is resource expensive, and takes YEARS of dedication, vast knowledge of the hardware, and knowledge of how games use that hardware. Look at bsnes. It's the most accurate SNES emulator ever made, and it's STILL not 100%, and requires a very fast computer to get those results.

With official emulation, that's built from the inside out. Official emulation starts with the source code of the game and ports it to work on different hardware, either through translation, recompilation, or just re-writing. These types of ports or emulated games from official sources have access to low level design docs, source code, and can replicate the old environment very easily at a minimum of resource cost. A good example is the Ninja Gaiden Triology on SNES. NGT is an enhanced port, but it plays exactly like the originals.

The SNES and NES share quite a few similarities in hardware, enough that given the source code, you can re-create a 1:1 port of an NES game on SNES if you felt the need to.

Official ports/emulation are usually close enough to the real thing that it doesn't matter to me.
Obvious exceptions being bullshit like the Silent Hill HD releases where they cock it up badly.

Correct me if I'm wrong..but I thought the "ROM" was the "read-only-memory" found on a cart. When you download a ROM of a game, you are simply getting an image of the programming found on the cart.

Thet ROM then has to be processed and turned into something usable...by the engine on the actual console. It does the I/O while simply running a program found on the ROM. It's no different than how a computer works. You buy a software suite and it runs on Windows, Windows runs the program, displays the visual/audio portions and does the input part of your interaction (mouse/keyboard).

This is why emulators all handle ROMs a bit differently. While the software found on the ROM is the same, how it is displayed and how you interact with it may vary based on that engine.

Case-in-point...the Retron5. When you pop in a cart, it reads the entire ROM and literally stored that in internal memory. The NES had to constantly make reads off of the cart because the NES didn't have sufficient memory to dump the entire thing like the Retron5 does.

The retron runs the read program...a save states are held on the Retron itself, including actual saves.

Look at Zelda for example.

The retron reads the entire ROM (and, if it is the first time you ran that game on the system, reads the saves stored on the cart). You play the game from the dumped ROM, not the cart. If you save the game, in game (AKA like you always have...NOT a save state EMU style), those saves are actually saved on the console, at no time do they get burnt to the cart. There is actually an option (with battery backup games) to "upload" saves to the cart (like the NES would do every time).

As for all-in-one deals like collections found on discs.etc...I believe that is an all-in-one package. Take Super Mario on the Wii. You are on the Wii OS, you launch SMB. Over Wii OS, NES OS launches (because unlike a ROM...SMB Wii is a complete, all in one package). That emulated NES OS then runs the SMB ROM. On your screen you see SMB.

Thanks guys. This is valuable information. Looking forward to digging into those links

**Edit**

So MGS HD Collection: Genuine, Port, or Emulation?

Sherlin said:

Thanks guys. This is valuable information. Looking forward to digging into those links

**Edit**

So MGS HD Collection: Genuine, Port, or Emulation?

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Enhanced ports.

Except MGS1 obviously if you got the code for PSN.

If im not using the real hardware then its emulation, that's my understanding.

Sherlin said:

Thanks guys. This is valuable information. Looking forward to digging into those links

**Edit**

So MGS HD Collection: Genuine, Port, or Emulation?

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PS3 version of MGSHD Collection is great.
Also, playing MGS1 on PS2 and PS3 are hardware accurate, due to them both having actual PS1 hardware. This only applies to the actual physical disc version.

DNSDies said:

PS3 version of MGSHD Collection is great.
Also, playing MGS1 on PS2 and PS3 are hardware accurate, due to them both having actual PS1 hardware. This only applies to the actual physical disc version.

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My understanding is that it's a PS1 emulator on both the PS2 and PS3 that allows support for PS1 discs.

kuze said:

My understanding is that it's a PS1 emulator on both the PS2 and PS3 that allows support for PS1 discs.

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The PS2 has the actual PS1 chip in it. It also doubles as the expansion bay I/O processor which why is ps1 games can't be loaded on the hard drive and played with hdloader.

shadowkn55 said:

The PS2 has the actual PS1 chip in it. It also doubles as the expansion bay I/O processor which why is ps1 games can't be loaded on the hard drive and played with hdloader.

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That's interesting, did not know that. Apparently there is a PS1 software emulator for the PS2 as well.

DNSDies said:

With official emulation, that's built from the inside out. Official emulation starts with the source code of the game and ports it to work on different hardware, either through translation, recompilation, or just re-writing. These types of ports or emulated games from official sources have access to low level design docs, source code, and can replicate the old environment very easily at a minimum of resource cost. A good example is the Ninja Gaiden Triology on SNES. NGT is an enhanced port, but it plays exactly like the originals.

Click to expand...

It looks like you are confused on what the difference is between a port and an emulated version. Ports are where the game has either been programmed from scratch for another system or the source code itself has been adapted to work on another system. Emulation is where the original code is being run on a system is wasn't originally intended. In emulation, you aren't emulated the game software itself, you're emulating the hardware which can interpret the original game code. If the hardware emulation isn't 100% correct, the game code may not run with perfect accuracy.