Greece’s Debt Crisis

DaytimeDreamer

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Bullshit propaganda through generalisation. Retirement age is 65 until 2013 and it afterwards became 67 years. That's however in the private sector.

http://www.tovima.gr/finance/article/?aid=514655 (It's in Greek unfortunately)

However in the public sector it can be anything really. Like I said too much corruption. Public sector is one of the many plaques this country has.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-pensioners-enjoy-early-retirement/

Notice how the article focuses on the public sector only.

Another interesting article:

http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2015/02/27/greeces-pension-system-isnt-that-generous-after-all/


Problem with Greece are corrupt politicians to the point we make Italy look cute, older generation people that are voting for the same and same people out of habit and nobody being brave enough to end the god damn syndicates and make reform they way they should be made.
 

ki_atsushi

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Bullshit propaganda through generalisation. Retirement age is 65 until 2013 and it afterwards became 67 years. That's however in the private sector.

http://www.tovima.gr/finance/article/?aid=514655 (It's in Greek unfortunately)

However in the public sector it can be anything really. Like I said too much corruption. Public sector is one of the many plaques this country has.

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/12/04/75-of-greek-pensioners-enjoy-early-retirement/

Notice how the article focuses on the public sector only.

Another interesting article:

http://blogs.wsj.com/brussels/2015/02/27/greeces-pension-system-isnt-that-generous-after-all/


Problem with Greece are corrupt politicians to the point we make Italy look cute, older generation people that are voting for the same and same people out of habit and nobody being brave enough to end the god damn syndicates and make reform they way they should be made.

I hear radio personalities and hairdressers are considered dangerous jobs ( :lolz: ) in Greece and get a good retirement down there...
 
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Mac91

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Didn't Germany only finish off paying their WWI reparations five years ago?
 

Takumaji

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Didn't Germany only finish off paying their WWI reparations five years ago?

Yup, that was on our national holiday on October 3rd in 2010.

We've kept paying since 1919... billions of billions... and what for? Because it was very convenient to have a single country that could be made responsible for WW1. Sure, Kaiser Wilhelm II was a militarist idiot who didn't mind going to war to get what he wanted but it's not that other European countries wouldn't have had their fair share of militarism, they all had some things so settle and went to war with flying flags and happy faces, only to find out what a war between industrialized nations really means: Total destruction without bounds and meaning.

It was the treaty of Versailles that fueled the Nazi propaganda to a great extend. That and the stab-in-the-back legend ("the German army was forced to retreat from the battlefield undefeated, it got stabbed in the back by the neo-democratic liberal politicians at home who kneeled before the Allies and their insane reparation claims and was forced to live in shame thereafter") were two major driving forces behind Hitler's rise to power.

The end of the payments also marks the end of all reparation claims that were active from 1919 to 1945 and until 2010. It not only was the Versailles treaty that got repaid, but also all foreign debt of the Reich plus a ton of claims related to the Shoa. This has been contractually secured with and by a series of official talks between Germany, the former Allies, international members of the Jewish Council/Israel and all European and Eurasian countries we went to war with in WW1 and 2. Greece had all the time in the world to bring in their claims but they didn't, and now they want us to pay another bunch of billions for something we already paid for in more than one regard.

About the economy thing, Stiglitz is a very clever man, that goes without saying, but I think that he tends to make quite scholastic arguments. I've found that to be a problem with many scientists who give their verdict based on how it should be, not how it is. In a country like Greece with its high level of corruption and lots of brotherhoods who scratch eachother's backs, a lot of political decisions influencing the economy are being made day by day that don't really make sense from the view of a dyed-in-the-wool economist but sure as hell do in the eyes of those who profit from it. Couple that with the financial crisis that hit Greece harder than other countries and you can tell that their problems cannot be solved by pumping more money in a bottomless pit without first applying serious political and social changes. Of course that is a change that has to come from within.
 

Rot

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Yup, that was on our national holiday on October 3rd in 2010.

We've kept paying since 1919... billions of billions... and what for? Because it was very convenient to have a single country that could be made responsible for WW1. Sure, Kaiser Wilhelm II was a militarist idiot who didn't mind going to war to get what he wanted but it's not that other European countries wouldn't have had their fair share of militarism, they all had some things so settle and went to war with flying flags and happy faces, only to find out what a war between industrialized nations really means: Total destruction without bounds and meaning.

It was the treaty of Versailles that fueled the Nazi propaganda to a great extend. That and the stab-in-the-back legend ("the German army was forced to retreat from the battlefield undefeated, it got stabbed in the back by the neo-democratic liberal politicians at home who kneeled before the Allies and their insane reparation claims and was forced to live in shame thereafter") were two major driving forces behind Hitler's rise to power.

The end of the payments also marks the end of all reparation claims that were active from 1919 to 1945 and until 2010. It not only was the Versailles treaty that got repaid, but also all foreign debt of the Reich plus a ton of claims related to the Shoa. This has been contractually secured with and by a series of official talks between Germany, the former Allies, international members of the Jewish Council/Israel and all European and Eurasian countries we went to war with in WW1 and 2. Greece had all the time in the world to bring in their claims but they didn't, and now they want us to pay another bunch of billions for something we already paid for in more than one regard.

About the economy thing, Stiglitz is a very clever man, that goes without saying, but I think that he tends to make quite scholastic arguments. I've found that to be a problem with many scientists who give their verdict based on how it should be, not how it is. In a country like Greece with its high level of corruption and lots of brotherhoods who scratch eachother's backs, a lot of political decisions influencing the economy are being made day by day that don't really make sense from the view of a dyed-in-the-wool economist but sure as hell do in the eyes of those who profit from it. Couple that with the financial crisis that hit Greece harder than other countries and you can tell that their problems cannot be solved by pumping more money in a bottomless pit without first applying serious political and social changes. Of course that is a change that has to come from within.

TL;DR....:p

Couldn't you just say... GERMANY... we already paid up... FUCK YOU GREECE....

Man... it's quicker and sorta better on my tired little azn ass...

xROTx

PS. i actually did read that... lucky you're one of the few posters I'll make an effort reading... GEEZ...
 

Takumaji

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Couldn't you just say... GERMANY... we already paid up... FUCK YOU GREECE....

I could, but won't :D

Well, they aren't being serious about it anyway, it's all just propaganda because the Greek prime minister and his minister of finance have a thing to settle with Merkel and Schäuble and are playing mister mighty and powerful now to look good front of their people.
 

norton9478

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The point is, debt forgiveness is a virtue.


About the economy thing, Stiglitz is a very clever man, that goes without saying, but I think that he tends to make quite scholastic arguments. I've found that to be a problem with many scientists who give their verdict based on how it should be, not how it is..

THe IMF is guilty of this. Not just in Greece, but in everywhere.
 

Takumaji

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I would disagree.

It doesn't look like one and does not want to be one but effectively is at the end of the day.

That's why we have this crisis, they're pouring fuel into the fire with their greed.
 

Giga_Power32bit

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Our generation doesn't owe shit. Same counts for Israel.
Are we supposed to keep paying for the next 70 years too?
As Dainel Brian would say ...YES! YES! YES!
Germany owe's all of europe for WW1 and WW2 for the destruction and shit they caused and also for invention of scat pornography..yeck!!! We all know that is your favorite you Nazi loving der Scheisskerl German Dr Shoom. How is that broom handle you got for your birthday?
 

Viewpoint

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As Dainel Brian would say ...YES! YES! YES!
Germany owe's all of europe for WW1 and WW2 for the destruction and shit they caused and also for invention of scat pornography..yeck!!! We all know that is your favorite you Nazi loving der Scheisskerl German Dr Shoom. How is that broom handle you got for your birthday?

Jesus.... shut the fuck up...
 

norton9478

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Germany should pay reparations for inventing Austrian Economics.

Greece should pay reparations for inventing democracy.
 
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Giga_Power32bit

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The problem is Germany lost two world war's and does not wish to lose face for a 3rd time. Besides Germany is making potential Sauerkraut off of the Greek debt currently and in the foreseeable future.
 

Dr Shroom

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As Dainel Brian would say ...YES! YES! YES!
Germany owe's all of europe for WW1 and WW2 for the destruction and shit they caused and also for invention of scat pornography..yeck!!! We all know that is your favorite you Nazi loving der Scheisskerl German Dr Shoom. How is that broom handle you got for your birthday?

try harder.
 

StevenK

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But when it comes to things that have never worked in the past, why keep repeating it? Other than for the sake of sadomonetarism.

What has never worked in the past?
 

Mac91

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It doesn't look like one and does not want to be one but effectively is at the end of the day.

That's why we have this crisis, they're pouring fuel into the fire with their greed.

That's the key word in pretty much all of the shit these days.
 

Rot

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I just like to say... Referendumb on Greece accepting or NOT accepting the bailout package is today... and the polls are closed...

I VOTED for Greece to accept more money from Germany...

xROTx
 

supergoose

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NeoSneth

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So what happens when a country goes bankrupt? I don't even know what is the potential best case scenario or worst scenario...
A broke greece still seems like it's doing better than 99% of africa.
 

SpamYouToDeath

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So what happens when a country goes bankrupt? I don't even know what is the potential best case scenario or worst scenario...
A broke greece still seems like it's doing better than 99% of africa.

Merkel shows up with a backhoe and starts repossessing their roads.
 

Dr Shroom

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So what happens when a country goes bankrupt? I don't even know what is the potential best case scenario or worst scenario...
A broke greece still seems like it's doing better than 99% of africa.

We buy it and plant potatos there.
 
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