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Thread: PCM Sound & Stability Fixes Multicarts - 120 in 1, 138 in 1, 161 in 1 and others.

  1. #176
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Just wanted to post an update on here. For the most part the fixes have been working fine but I did an extended test of Pulstar on the 161 last week (played all the way through) and twice the sound did glitch, but hardly at all and only twice through the whole play through. This makes me wonder if 47pF might need changing to 57pF or 37pF etc. When I get more time I will re-test with a slightly different size and report back.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  2. #177
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    I have a 120 in 1 and somoeone mentioned that you can hide titles on the list. I want to hide the hacks but have no idea how to do it.

  3. #178
    Zero's Tailor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctorm View Post
    I have a 120 in 1 and somoeone mentioned that you can hide titles on the list. I want to hide the hacks but have no idea how to do it.
    AFAIK this is only possible on the 138-in-1. On the other carts one is stuck with the crappy hacks.
    Regards, MtothaJ

  4. #179
    Cheng's Errand Boy
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    Hi GadgetUK, great to see you're still working on these multicarts! I've fixed my 120 in 1 already and just received a 161 in the post.
    These mods are a must!

  5. #180
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Quote Originally Posted by nam9 View Post
    Hi GadgetUK, great to see you're still working on these multicarts! I've fixed my 120 in 1 already and just received a 161 in the post.
    These mods are a must!
    Thanks, no problem - I've been testing my 161 in 1 again all week and not had any repeat sound issues on Pulstar, although I am not convinced 47pF is the ideal size on the 161 in 1. For the 138 in 1 and 120 in 1 I've not had any repeat issues at all, so it would appear that the cap size in those carts seems OK.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  6. #181
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    I did the regulator addition to my 161, and changed the cables on the jamma extender for RGB and Sync to mini coaxial style, using the shields of each as the GND for video, and now the rolling has stopped totally. Previously, before the regulator addition, i'd just changed the cables for thicker ones, and although that helped with the rolling, it left the small bent area at the top of the display - now that is gone. in fact, it'd say the picture is as good as direct from the MVS now, after slightly adjusting the contrast on the tube.

    Keeping in mind that the MVS direct to the cab's jamma while running the 161-in-1 was always solid, and even the MVS mounted directly onto the slot on the jamma switcher is still twitchy, it's safe to assume that the 6-way jamma switcher, combined with the extenders, causes enough of a drop to mess with the sync & colour levels, and require a re-calibration of the monitor itself. I see other boards on the same setup ALSO look different - for example, a Williams board (originally non-jamma) looked darker, and the ST-V lost some contrast etc., but did not start rolling.

    Anyone using a multi jamma switcher & MVS with the 161 might get the same sort of issues, but i'd expect some penalty somewhere when using a jamma switcher in all cases, there is defo some loss.

  7. #182
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Had someone point out that World Heroes 2 on the 161 in 1 has the wrong music. I've confirmed this today - There's no corruption in the music, it just sounds like different music tracks have been assigned to some scenes. I think its an M1 hack on that game. Thanks to SpotSGN for pointing that out. Music on the 138 in 1 is correct. The 138 in 1 is a good cart to get along side the 161 in 1 as there are at least several games on the 161 in 1 that have issues in one form or another.

    Edit: Also note, regards testing of the 47pF capacitors, I've played a lot over the last few weeks and cannot get it to glitch again, so 47pF isn't a bad size to use but depending on factors you might find you still get rare glitches in PCM sound. Always open to the idea that 47pF might not be the perfect size but its seems pretty near.
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 12-28-2015 at 10:57 AM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  8. #183
    Sakura's Bank Manager
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    GadgetUK: Thanks for all your hard work on these multicarts. Can I suggest putting a parts list on the 1st post for each of the 3 carts?
    Sony PVM Club, Blast City Club, Egret II Club, Neo Candy Club
    WTB: Neo Geo MVS-U4 or MVS-U4/29

  9. #184
    Zero's Tailor

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    Concerning the build quality of these carts have a look at the photos in the below link for the 138-in-1. As per the link description the guys are 'professionally welding' the components to the PCB by hand in pretty ghetto conditions:

    ng138.png

    http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2015-...e-21f80e7798aa

    Kind of explains why a lot of these mods / rectifications are subsequently required.
    Regards, MtothaJ

  10. #185
    Angel's Love Slave
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    LOL!

    Function Test

    "We will use the robert to make 48 hours testing on the PCB game board turn on & tunr off to check the function work normaly."

    Sounds like Robert is going to be pretty busy doing all the testing! Hope he gets overtime for working a 48 hour shift.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  11. #186
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    First post!

    Does anyone do these fixes as a service? I am neck deep in my CMVS project at the moment so would happily pay a few quid to get this done right.

    Also, a handy parts list for each cart would be a good addition to the op

    Cheers for the good work Gadget.

  12. #187
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    GadgetUK,

    Thanks for all of your hard work. I went ahead and added the 2 caps and the 3.3v regulator to my 161 in 1 cart. The sound glitches on Pulstar, 1945 Strikers etc. etc. are GONE! It also seems like all of the random resets/errors screens are non existent. I used to often get the green error screen but now for some reason very rarely do I get it. I am using a 1st gen American Neo with uni-bios 3.0 and a Daedalus converter and everything is working great. Keep up the great work. How I wish I could make a 138 in 1 work on my AES.

  13. #188
    Neo Bubble Buster
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    Thanks for sharing your work GadgetUK. Audio is much better now on this 138 in 1.

  14. #189
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    Hi all, great thread on the multi-carts and a good read but I wish I was better with electronics to attempt these fixes myself. I have had a 120-in-1 since September 2014 but it seems to have developed issues in the last couple of days. Games randomly reset themselves which never happened before, sometimes after a couple of minutes or after a longer period. I have tested games that have always been solid such as Magical Drop 3 and Garou MOTW. I play both of these the most on the cart and never had issues until now, I would sometimes play drops 3 with my girlfriend for hours without issues!

    I have tested my legit games and so far they seems stable, i.e Kof 98 and 2002 left in vs mode with infinite time for over an hour to see if they crash and so far both are ok.

    I guess the cart has developed a fault, I know how poorly they are made. I was wondering what the best fix might be for this, is there any chance my CMVS (Omega) has started to go wrong?

    Many thanks guys, any advice would be much appreciated. I'll buy a legit MOTW and Drops 3 eventually but they are pricey.

  15. #190
    Vice's Love Slave
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    Most likely it's the cart living on borrowed time. There isn't anything in the way of bus buffering when it comes to these carts so when you mix 3.3v flash chips with a 5v system, things are bound to go wrong.

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowkn55 View Post
    Most likely it's the cart living on borrowed time. There isn't anything in the way of bus buffering when it comes to these carts so when you mix 3.3v flash chips with a 5v system, things are bound to go wrong.
    I must be the cart as you said, I've had my CMVS on tonight with Kof 2002 for a couple of hours and Windjammers for another 1.5 hours and so far they are fine so this is a huge relief. With the fixes GadgetUK has posted are people now finding the multi-carts somewhat acceptable and safe to use on original hardware? I know a lot of people on here use them and I like the convenience of having one to hand. Is it worth trying to repair my current cart or should I buy another one and try and have GadgetUK's fixes applied?

    Thanks guys!

  17. #192
    Angel's Love Slave
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    It could be the cart as shadowkn55 says, but to be honest I use my multicarts nearly all the time on the few MVS systems I have and they are rock solid, but that doesn't mean they will last forever, and there is a chance its not doing the neo chipset much good. You could try adding all the missing 100nF caps to the 120 in 1 (there are a lot of cap positions not populated on them), and you could try adding a voltage regulator in place of the 2 diodes. Finally you could try reflowing the solder on the CPLDs. My guess is its the lack of caps causing your problems, probably combined with the diodes and a fluxuating / noisy 5v line. You'd be amazed but the MVS can be quite tolerant to a noisy 5v line, as can original carts, but the 3.3v logic on the multicarts combined with lack of bypass caps can cause the sorts of problems you are experiencing. Soldering SMD caps on is not difficult - you put the cap in position, hold it down with something that has a fine point, say a jewlers screwdriver. Then add flux to one side and solder one side down. Then just flux up the other side and solder it. You can always practice on some old scrap PC card or motherboard or something until you feel confident your soldering skills are up to the job.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  18. #193
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    Thanks for the response GadgetUK, your youtube channel is excellent by the way and I subbed ages ago, top stuff! I have been testing more legit games and so far no issues. As I said my 120-in-1 has been fine for past 18 months, it only get used infrequently as I don't have that much time to game generally. I'll open it up and have a play, I'll be ordering a Hakko FX888D soldering iron later in the month as my cheap Maplin one broke recently and the replacement I bought is hopeless at desoldering anything. Did you get the upgrade parts from eBay? Cheers.

  19. #194
    Angel's Love Slave
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    No worries! You can get the SMD 100nF caps from eBay very cheaply, and the AMS1117 regulator. If you decide to try and reflow the large quad flat pack CPLD chips, buy yourself a small 2cc tube of Chipquik flux - that will stop you joining pins up etc, and if 2 join use a bit of desolder braid with the flux and it should remove the bridge. Just take your time with it all and I am sure you can do it. I would start with adding all the missing capacitors and then retest.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  20. #195
    Pupil of Bonus-Kun

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    Hi all :-)

    I've got a 138-in-1 and I'm going to apply GadgetUK's fixes - I really appreciate your work sir. I've made a purchase from Digikey to get the parts and I thought it would be useful for others to see the parts list, and I'll let you know how I get on.

    components.png

    http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...70-1-ND/411445
    http://www.digikey.com/product-searc...ST33T3GOSCT-ND
    http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...09CT-ND/286631
    http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...391-ND/2433525
    http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...84CT-ND/286706

    EDIT: was missing an order for 2 * 47uF radial electrolytic caps

    Cheers!
    Last edited by alkenstein; 05-23-2016 at 10:04 AM.

  21. #196
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Thanks! That's really useful! =D
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  22. #197
    Kuroko's Training Dummy

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    Thank you GadgetUK for all of your hard work on this. Recently did this to my 138-in-1 and it's great. Just dug up the dipswitch to have a go with now.

    Was interesting to see the variety of which caps were already installed compared to pictures of other boards online.

    I also cleaned up the boards, they actually look respectable now.

    Pete

  23. #198
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmmonkey View Post
    Thank you GadgetUK for all of your hard work on this. Recently did this to my 138-in-1 and it's great. Just dug up the dipswitch to have a go with now.

    Was interesting to see the variety of which caps were already installed compared to pictures of other boards online.

    I also cleaned up the boards, they actually look respectable now.

    Pete
    You're welcome, and thanks very much for your awesome website!!! So many fantastic tutorials on there, I think I've used your site more than a few times! Brilliant website! =D
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  24. #199
    Pupil of Bonus-Kun

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    We seem to have lost all recent posts... I happen to have a copy so here they are:

    alkenstein:
    Hi all!

    I've applied the fixes as specified in GadgetUK's photos, but I'm unfortunately having a problem now. Some games halt after they've been loaded with 'Warning; Bank Error' on screen, and some are fine. It seems to me like it's the bigger games that fail (for example last blade 2 fails) but Super Dodgeball is fine. According to neogeodev.org this means:

    "WARNING BANK ERROR": Cartridge_self-checking. Cartridge dirty, bad 74LS74 for bankswitching.

    I've checked that there no shorts across any of the caps, and that the caps which connect to the traces have not damaged the trace (I can still get a connection pin from the edge to the chip pin with my multimeter). I've attached pictures - I'm certainly not the best solderer in the world so please excuse the messiness. I did remove a resistor from one of the cap spots (I think PC1) but now I'm wonder if that was a mistake. I've also put wires across the menu board on pin M and 26 which is meant to connect the change game button as well as the test button. I not attach the cap which says 'not needed' in the picture 1.jpg.

    I only connected together the first two pins on on the chip M1 - the picture showed connecting three! Could that be the problem? I can't check till Monday since the Neo-Geo is in my office and not here. My S1 connects the first two pins, like the picture from GadgetUK.

    I also just noticed that my cap at jp2 is the same size as the cap at c12 but in the picture is says 'ideally smaller' - could that cause this problem? (I hope so!!) I'll change it for a smaller one. By the way it occurs to me that since all three show '47uf to 220uf' but c12 should be bigger, it might make sense to label c12 '100uf to 220uf', and the other two '47uf to 100uf and smaller than c12'

    Another thing I noticed while testing is that sound seems to be only coming from the left speaker (pretty sure it was stereo before - no idea if related).

    I also had a bit of trouble figuring out which way to put the polarised caps, I've done them as follows, are they correct?

    * C12: negative to the pin closest to the text 'c12'
    * Cable: positive to the end pin
    * JP2: positive to the end pin

    Thanks and any suggestions would be very gratefully received! :-)
    alk
    GadgetUK:
    Try removing the cap next to the left of the voltage regulator on the board with the P roms. It's not needed. There are a couple of other things that can cause this - something wrong with the menu selector board (the bit with the JAMMA edge), or the connector that goes between the top and bottom boards - are all wires still soldered onto the board properly? Other than that, the only thing I can think is you've got some rogue solder somewhere or a bad connection on one of the CPLD chips. These boards are really poorly made and its often possible to find broken scratched traces on them, bad solder connections on CPLD / other components - you really need to go over it with a magnifying glass and check every single trace and component to see if anything looks questionable. What's that wire on the JAMMA menu selector btw? I've not seen that before?!? EDIT: Looks like there are 2 wires on it?!?

    EDIT2: Have you tried clearing your backup RAM btw?
    alkenstein:
    Hi thanks for your response :-)

    Can you tell me which cap id you are talking about to remove? I don't knowwhich are p roms and i dont know which is regulator The wires are soldered on properly, I've tested this with multimeter but I will double check thanks. There's actually two wires on the menu board, one on 26 and one on M. These transfer the game select signal as well as the cab test button, which dont work otherwise. I got that info elsewhere on this forum. I did have a question about the polarised caps btw. Is it correct that only three of them are polarised? (The big radial ones) - all the other caps can be attached either way around? And also did I put them on the right way round? Please see the bottom of the text in my previous post for description of the direction I attached them

    Thanks and will let you know how i get on
    :-)

    EDIT: have not touched backup RAM, could it make a difference? (The system was working before making the changes to the cart)
    GadgetUK:
    The cap connected to the left hand pin of the AMS1117 regulator - the regulator is the 3 pin + tab black component you soldered on in place of the diodes. Only the electrolytic capacitors are polarised - all the SMD caps can go either way around. It's worth initialising the backup RAM if you can. I think just pushing all DIP switches up on the MVS and then power on should invoke a work RAM test, which if you leave going for a few seconds, then switch off and revert DIP switches back should init the backup RAM too.

  25. #200
    Pupil of Bonus-Kun

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    OK! I've removed this cap and will give it a whirl tomorrow and let you know (I will also init the backup RAM). I've been analysing my cart with a friend of mine (remotely over skype :-)) and he has a question, I wonder if you can shed some light:

    "I wonder what effect these 47pF capacitors actually have that helps to fix the cartridge. Adding capacitive load to digital signal lines feels strange to me - it could provide low pass filtering, but it could also cause ringing / resonance when coupled with parasitic induction of the traces."

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