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Thread: PCM Sound & Stability Fixes Multicarts - 120 in 1, 138 in 1, 161 in 1 and others.

  1. #51
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Well at least you did a great job! They do vary in the quality of the case and label - one of mine has a perfect case and label and the boards came out easily) and the other one had a tear in the top label, a small crack in the case, and the boards wouldnt come out until I did what you've described (use a knife to scrape a tiny sliver of the plastic support post out of the way). What gets me is if they did all the stuff that needs doing to the boards they would sell more and get less returns / negative feedback etc. It must take ages to get the chips programmed and onto these boards so the other stuff is minor in comparison. I guess it's all about saving time and cost of pennies from the other components etc. Cutting corners never results in more profit.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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  2. #52
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    Really impressive work getting your 138-in-1s to work without the daughter board!

    I just posted a WTB thread for a pre-made dip switch assembly. They could be a really great product to offer if anyone is up for making a few.

  3. #53
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    Ok so I got several 161s here to play with. My oldest one never would play any sound so I tried it on this one first. Did not fix the issue as you warned but I tried switching my modded board to a known working one and it came on fine with sound. So I started inspecting the back board with all the Roms and noticed its a different revision then the others. Especially noticeable in this pic. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1427592789.137153.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1427592844.088459.jpg
    You can see there is like 100 pins vs my newer boards in the same column has like 60. I was gonna mess with reflowing the whole board but it's hard to see which holes are supposed to be bridged (which several are) and which are not so I figured I would just screw it up worse. Here is a pic of the newer one for reference with the 60
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1427592983.884523.jpg
    So if the games play fine with no sound is there any one thing you think would be the culprit I could poke at? Also I got two neo boards setup so I'm going to test the one I did with caps and one without to see if o can catch any sound probs. I have never noticed strikers or pulstar messing up before on my 4 slot but I will try a 2 slot as well for testing. I'll report back later as to what changes I catch if any between a moddded and unmodded.

  4. #54
    Angel's Love Slave
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    There's a CPLD on the left hand side (not shown on your photos there) - that does the address decoding for the M1 ROM. The M1 ROM is just above it. I would check all the connectivity out around that area. That CPLD takes 4.3v from the middle of the two diodes which power the board. Look on under side of the PCB where the 2 diodes join - There should be a trace which leads off and is jumpered (probably with a tiny particle of solder) to a trace which goes to a via. Check the connectivity around there to ensure that 4.3v is getting to the CPLD. You could reflow the solder on M1 and that nearby CPLD. I presume you've narrowed it down to this board by swapping the top and bottom boards etc?
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 03-29-2015 at 06:17 AM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    There's a CPLD on the left hand side (not shown on your photos there) - that does the address decoding for the M1 ROM. The M1 ROM is just above it. I would check all the connectivity out around that area. That CPLD takes 4.3v from the middle of the two diodes which power the board. Look on under side of the PCB where the 2 diodes join - There should be a trace which leads off and is jumpered (probably with a tiny particle of solder) to a trace which goes to a via. Check the connectivity around there to ensure that 4.3v is getting to the CPLD. You could reflow the solder on M1 and that nearby CPLD. I presume you've narrowed it down to this board by swapping the top and bottom boards etc?

    Yeah it's definitely that board as I was able to swap parts around to find it. I'll try playing with it some more and thanks for the suggestion as what to look into.

  6. #56
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Another kind of related video here that I uploaded earlier:-



    This relates to a cap size issue on the PROG16 boards - on an official cart. I had a glitch on my King of Monsters 2 which I was aware of around 18 months ago. I took a look at that cart yesterday and worked out what was causing it! The cap related to the SDRMPX (A47) line is the issue on the PROG16 when used with the MV-1FZ. I had to reduce it from 150pF to 47pF. I've measured the cap I took off and its all OK. It is just related to this game for me - I have other games using the PROG16 board and they are fine. It might vary between PCM chip revisions on the carts as well - I've honestly got no idea but I do know this is the only original cart I've had with the same kind of PCM issues the multicarts suffer. The other interesting aspect to this is I discovered this by chance whilst converting a boot Puzzle Bobble to Fight Fever. After I got the problem on the PROG16 with Fight Fever I then went back to look at King of Monsters. Both work perfectly now.

    I really wish I had a two slot to test with here as I am not sure if these PCM issues only relate to the MV-1FZ or what.
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 03-31-2015 at 05:27 PM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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  7. #57
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    Let me know how you get on!
    I applied the sound fix to my 161 today. Great pictures and instructions GadgetUK

    20150331_150019.jpg
    Last edited by SmokeMonster; 03-31-2015 at 04:11 PM.

  8. #58
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Great job! And, how did you get on - did it fix the PCM issues in Pulstar and Strikers etc? What MVS do you have?
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    Great job! And, how did you get on - did it fix the PCM issues in Pulstar and Strikers etc? What MVS do you have?
    I have no way to test it yet. I'm still waiting on the parts to finish my first CMVS (MV-1C). After that is ready, I have an MV-2F. I'll test on both eventually and post back with the results.

    Update: I also recapped the electrolytic caps in my 161-in-1 since I have a big roll of Nichicon 47uF 100V caps on hand. There are four 47uF16V inside, all HDS (hitachi?) brand. My larger sized 100V caps fit when mounted at a right angle, but just barely. I'd recommend going with 30V or 50V for a perfect fit.
    Last edited by SmokeMonster; 04-01-2015 at 11:51 PM.

  10. #60
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeMonster View Post
    I have no way to test it yet. I'm still waiting on the parts to finish my first CMVS (MV-1C). After that is ready, I have an MV-2F. I'll test on both eventually and post back with the results.

    Update: I also recapped the electrolytic caps in my 161-in-1 since I have a big roll of Nichicon 47uF 100V caps on hand. There are four 47uF16V inside, all HDS (hitachi?) brand. My larger sized 100V caps fit when mounted at a right angle, but just barely. I'd recommend going with 30V or 50V for a perfect fit.

    No problem! Let me know how you get on! It's a shame you couldn't test first without the caps, although they will need adding I am sure.

    I've had feedback from the person that lost sound on his 2 slot when he added the caps - they were 47uF NOT 47pF! He's got some new ones coming! I suspect it will work just the same on the 2 slot.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    No problem! Let me know how you get on! It's a shame you couldn't test first without the caps, although they will need adding I am sure.

    I've had feedback from the person that lost sound on his 2 slot when he added the caps - they were 47uF NOT 47pF! He's got some new ones coming! I suspect it will work just the same on the 2 slot.

    I did run mine through a 4 slot, 2 slot, and 1 slot. All worked fine after the caps.

  12. #62
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westcb View Post
    I did run mine through a 4 slot, 2 slot, and 1 slot. All worked fine after the caps.
    That's great news =) Thanks for letting me know!
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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  13. #63
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    So far I've been unable to reproduce the volume issue with Strikers on my 120-in-1. I'm using an MV-1AX. Unfortunately I just sold my MV-1FZ that I meant to also test it with, argh.

    I have opened up the case to check the cart and indeed it's missing the caps as mentioned in this fix, and does also have the 'misplaced' resistor in place of the cap.

    You wonder if you'll ever stop hearing the strikers music once doing this test... it etches itself into your brain
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  14. #64
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    I think the problem is going to vary from system to system. I suspect some of the boards won't suffer from the problem at all - it might depend on where the traces run on the MVS itself, and also what chip is used - I assume they all have a dedicated YM2610 but that might not be the case, and there might be different revisions of that chip, I've no idea. What I do know is its clearly a possible issue because even official SNK carts have a cap for it (depending on the game boards used). The PROG16 has a cap which is incorrectly rated for the MV-1FZ at least. It could also depend on whether the PSU is earthed correctly or not I guess. If its not glitching on your MV-1AX I suspect that maybe that model has something different regards the YM2610 or the trace routing. I did wonder if some MVS models had a cap on the main board itself to help. Looking at the only MVS schematics I have there's no sign of any cap, but I think the schematics relate to the MV-1FZ =/ AES doesn't either, but that is pretty much an MV-1FZ anyway regards the chipset used.
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  15. #65
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    Quick update to say that I had to reduce the 2 x 150pF caps in the PROG16 board to 47pF on my King of Monsters 2, and a Fight Fever bootleg I created from a Puzzle Bobble bootleg. I am thinking it could be because EPROMs were used in the V slots but it might be that 150pF caps are not sufficient when on a PROG16 when used with the MV-1FZ - no idea. What I do know is my Art of Fighting (orig) and Wind Jammers (boot) both sit on PROG16 boards and they are fine with the 150pF caps. Again I think it depends on the nature of the V ROM access on the board. It's also worth noting that the cap which made the most difference on King of Monsters 2 was the same ADPCM control pin as the multicarts (The one related to the 4Mhz clock), whereas with Fight Fever boot I found the other cap (on the slower ADPCM bus control pin - the one that runs at Khz) fixed the problem.
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  16. #66
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    I've been using my modded and recapped 161 for a week now in my MV2F and everything seems perfect except for no audio in Blues Journey. This is probably something to do with my CMVS though because I'm getting missing audio in a known good bootleg cart too.

  17. #67
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    does this fix issues like random resets in game with a 161 and Daedalus converter ?

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by s8n187 View Post
    does this fix issues like random resets in game with a 161 and Daedalus converter ?
    I would imagine that the random resets could be caused by a number of things - possibly the extra power drain of the daedalus on an AES PSU, it could also be an additional parasitic capacitance issue somewhere due to the convertor being inbetween. For the 161 in 1 I am pretty sure the 2 x 47pF caps won't fix the issue, neither will adding the voltage regulator to the prog board. I suspect a couple of 47pF caps might be required on the prog or clock lines though. I don't have a daedalus so I cannot investigate further at this stage =/ At some point I will get one, or maybe a Fusion or something if Furrtek does another run. It would be useful to understand whether the same random resets happen with the 120 in 1 and the daedalus? I would assume they do and are likely more regular? Since the cart works for a period of time it is very likely solvable with some capacitors - it's just a case of working out where to put them. My guess would be on the clocks running close to the prog address lines, and possibly on some of the address lines.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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  19. #69
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    @GadgetUK
    I know this is a total noob question but on the electrolytic capacitors that you added does the negative leg go to ground and the positive go to VCC? By the way thank you for the videos you posted on youtube about this, very informative

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by MayhemJB View Post
    @GadgetUK
    I know this is a total noob question but on the electrolytic capacitors that you added does the negative leg go to ground and the positive go to VCC? By the way thank you for the videos you posted on youtube about this, very informative
    No problem! Yes, the electrolytics need to have +ve connected to vcc and -ve to gnd. I fitted 2, one on the 5v rail, and then one on the 3.3v rail after adding the regulator. Better to have a smaller cap on the 3.3v rail but it doesn't really matter since theres' a large amount of capacitance already on the 5v rail. You could just fit a single electrolytic to the 3.3v rail.
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  21. #71
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    Does anyone know anything about this new 138 in 1 cart?

    I can't tell if anything is missing yet but It does have all the Metal Slugs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and X also 6 if you count that. But I'm pretty sure that is just a hack am I right?

    I'm a noobie to this thread so I don't want to put a link up and get anyone mad or thinking i'm trying to sell something. But if you look at Alibaba and search 138 in 1 you will find a green super 138 in 1 that has different games, the same company sells the regular version we've all seen.

    I'm going to do some more research and see what is all there and what is missing. I'll post here when I do, unless someone beats me to it.

  22. #72
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    01.KOF2002 MAGIC II
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  23. #73
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    ok sorry for the multiple posts, I am too new to be able to edit my posts. But it looks like:

    Metal Slug X is added between Metal Slug 2 and 3. Metal Slug X+ was added between Metal Slug 2+ and 3+. Strikers 1945 Plus+ is missing, don't worry Strikers 1945 Plus is still there. Also Puzzle De Pon! + is missing. So ADDED Metal Slug X and X+ and took out Strikers 1945 Plus+ and Puzzle De Pon!+.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    No problem! Yes, the electrolytics need to have +ve connected to vcc and -ve to gnd. I fitted 2, one on the 5v rail, and then one on the 3.3v rail after adding the regulator. Better to have a smaller cap on the 3.3v rail but it doesn't really matter since theres' a large amount of capacitance already on the 5v rail. You could just fit a single electrolytic to the 3.3v rail.
    I know you said somewhere what size caps you used I think it was 220uF but said that something smaller would work? would 47uF on both rails work? or what is the optimal size?

  25. #75
    Angel's Love Slave
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    Very interesting! Does look like they revised the 138 in 1 and added Metal Slug X, then removed those two plus versions you mentioned. I wonder if they fixed NAM, League Bowling and Cyber Lip VROMs? I doubt it! Would be interesting to see if they put caps and regulator on there - again I doubt it!

    47uF caps for smoothing will be OK, larger is better though.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
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