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Thread: PCM Sound & Stability Fixes Multicarts - 120 in 1, 138 in 1, 161 in 1 and others.

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  1. #1
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    PCM Sound & Stability Fixes Multicarts - 120 in 1, 138 in 1, 161 in 1 and others.

    In summary, the SDRMPX and SDPMPX bypass caps (47pF) make the biggest difference to PCM sound on all these carts, but its worth doing all of the mods imo.

    This has fixed sound problems in many games across all the carts below. The 161 in 1 in general suffers less from the PCM issues, but it IS affected. Pulstar is now fixed on my 161 in 1, as well as Puzzle Bobble, and a few other games which had random sound issues.

    138 in 1, and 120 in 1
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/nx0fhk0eim...rtfix.zip?dl=0

    This also fixes Pulstar on the 161 in 1 for me as well =D The 161 in 1 needs traces scratching (like the 138 in 1 does). The 120 in 1 seems to have 2 pads for the caps already.
    161 in 1 (150 in 1 also?)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdf1bd2fqo...n%201.jpg?dl=0

    Here's the link to the thread that lead me to the fixes. http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...ards-PCM-sound I've posted this seperate thread due to the title hopefully being more useful. People might never look into the original thread. Hope someone finds this useful!
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 02-25-2015 at 11:47 AM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    In summary, the SDRMPX and SDPMPX bypass caps (47pF) make the biggest difference to PCM sound on all these carts, but its worth doing all of the mods imo.

    This has fixed sound problems in many games across all the carts below. The 161 in 1 in general suffers less from the PCM issues, but it IS affected. Pulstar is now fixed on my 161 in 1, as well as Puzzle Bobble, and a few other games which had random sound issues.

    138 in 1, and 120 in 1
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/nx0fhk0eim...rtfix.zip?dl=0

    This also fixes Pulstar on the 161 in 1 for me as well =D The 161 in 1 needs traces scratching (like the 138 in 1 does). The 120 in 1 seems to have 2 pads for the caps already.
    161 in 1 (150 in 1 also?)
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdf1bd2fqo...n%201.jpg?dl=0

    Here's the link to the thread that lead me to the fixes. http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...ards-PCM-sound I've posted this seperate thread due to the title hopefully being more useful. People might never look into the original thread. Hope someone finds this useful!
    Your the man... Thanks very much for posting this and persevering with the sound issues. Pulstar on my 161 made me think I had a cap issue on my 1fz and swapped them all. At least I know they are fine now
    Anyway, did you know if you google 138 in 1 the top hits are your YouTube videos !

    Superb, thanks again.

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    Thanks! Here's the vid:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwHHIpLcjdE I almost recapped my MVS due to the problem, glad I didn't lol.

    What's nice about these fixes is the more games I now test the more things I can hear have been fixed. This all started with NAM-1975 on my 120 in 1 - that was the first game I had wierd crackly sound on and I suspected at the time it was the NVPROM or the ROM image inside. It's perfect after adding the latest caps =) Well, as perfect as it can be - The NAM-1975 on all the multicarts is missing a music track from the title music I think, at least from what I remember. Pulstar is now awesome, as is Strikers 1945+. It's funny how many things it fixed which I did not expect. One of my 138 in 1's had dodgy sound in Metal Slug 5. It was crackly in at least 2 or 3 samples and always in the same places. Now it is absolutely perfect, as is the one or two Metal Slug games on the 161 in 1 I previously had similar issues with.
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 02-15-2015 at 06:37 AM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

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    Brilliant mate, about to order 138 in 1 I've been holding off for a bit.

    Now I'm considering whether its feasible to mount the dipswitch directly to the case of the 138 rather than at the end of the cable tail.

    I've a bit OCD and the cable hanging from the cart doesn't sit well with my head. After watching your video on MVS cartridge cleaning I'm sure you can relate - LOL

    Anyway, hats of to you...

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    It's totally possible to mount the DIP switch in the cart somewhere I am sure - although you should check physical space first to be sure where is best to mount it. I've got a 3 digit LCD display and some counters - I want to make a counter circuit, perhaps using PIC or something, whereby you hold down reset to go up through the numbers until you get the game number you need, then release reset and bam - its working on that game.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

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    Awesome, thanks for the info on fixing the 138. I also modified my STV Multicart Selector code to work with my 138. I'm waiting for some small 5x5 pcbs that will hold a Arduino nano and the transistors needed for this. I added options for Random Mode and the ability to hide or show the hack games. I'll try to get a video at some point next week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    It's totally possible to mount the DIP switch in the cart somewhere I am sure - although you should check physical space first to be sure where is best to mount it. I've got a 3 digit LCD display and some counters - I want to make a counter circuit, perhaps using PIC or something, whereby you hold down reset to go up through the numbers until you get the game number you need, then release reset and bam - its working on that game.
    That would just take it to the next level, hope you got over the man flu!

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    A buddy of mine just did this fix on his 161-1 and he said it fixed any sound issue he had before. I have a cart that came to me with sound messed up on every single game and just put it up to mess with later. I will do this fix on my working cart and report back when I get some caps from him and I will also see if this fixes the cart that has never had any correct sound. Thanks for posting this fix!

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    It depends on what the problem is - if the sound is messed up completely, perhaps playing the wrong sounds at the wrong time etc that's likely to be a bad connection, a short, a faulty chip etc. These fixes work for carts that are working but have flakey PCM where the samples start / stop suddenly or change in volume level and get crackly etc. It's not a 'fix all'. Let me know how you get on, I hope it works for you!
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    It depends on what the problem is - if the sound is messed up completely, perhaps playing the wrong sounds at the wrong time etc that's likely to be a bad connection, a short, a faulty chip etc. These fixes work for carts that are working but have flakey PCM where the samples start / stop suddenly or change in volume level and get crackly etc. It's not a 'fix all'. Let me know how you get on, I hope it works for you!

    Yeah basically it's crackly on every single game. All 161 :-/ my buddy is sending me 8 of the caps needed so I will go through 4 multicarts and report back. The others I have not noticed any sound issues at all, but I'll specifically go check out strikers and pulstar. I'll try a reflow on that messed up cart after the cap trick just to eliminate bad solder joints too.

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    Just make sure you get the 2 x 47pF caps in the right spot. The 100nF caps in other bypass positions are also needed on other carts but the 150 in 1 and 161 in 1 normally have all the other caps, they just lack the required 47pF caps on the 2 PCM inputs. And for anyone wondering where to buy caps - look on EBAY, a pack of 50 x 47pF ceramic caps are a couple of pounds ($3).
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 03-02-2015 at 11:50 AM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

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    @ MODS - Can this thread be made a sticky please?

    These carts have been around for years (with issues) until GadgetUK brilliantly found a solution to the issues and I for one would not like to see this thread lost.

    What does everything think? We need to generate some support here!! :-)

    MJ

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    Thanks for the support! Hearing from a few people here and there to say it has fixed sound problems on their carts.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

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    Just a quick update to this thread. I did a follow on video covering fitting a 3.3v regulator to the CHA board of the 161 in 1, and quickly showed where the 2 x 47pF caps go on the 161 in 1.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a-67DIteMk

    It's important to note that one person testing with a 2 slot is finding he loses sound completely after adding the caps. I've suggest dropping the size to 22pF in that case to see if it brings the sound back. Not clear on whether there's a difference on 2 slots, or whether there's another issue with that cart / system at play. In theory it should work just the same, but I do remember when I tried with 100nF caps to start with I found the sound almost disappeared - clicks and squeaks etc, so that capacitance value is important or it can affect the timing to the point the PCM is hardly there at all. I've had positive results back on at least 8 carts now from 4 different people - I think they are all based on single slots thought, mostly MV-1FZ.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  15. #15
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    Ok so I got several 161s here to play with. My oldest one never would play any sound so I tried it on this one first. Did not fix the issue as you warned but I tried switching my modded board to a known working one and it came on fine with sound. So I started inspecting the back board with all the Roms and noticed its a different revision then the others. Especially noticeable in this pic. ImageUploadedByTapatalk1427592789.137153.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1427592844.088459.jpg
    You can see there is like 100 pins vs my newer boards in the same column has like 60. I was gonna mess with reflowing the whole board but it's hard to see which holes are supposed to be bridged (which several are) and which are not so I figured I would just screw it up worse. Here is a pic of the newer one for reference with the 60
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1427592983.884523.jpg
    So if the games play fine with no sound is there any one thing you think would be the culprit I could poke at? Also I got two neo boards setup so I'm going to test the one I did with caps and one without to see if o can catch any sound probs. I have never noticed strikers or pulstar messing up before on my 4 slot but I will try a 2 slot as well for testing. I'll report back later as to what changes I catch if any between a moddded and unmodded.

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    There's a CPLD on the left hand side (not shown on your photos there) - that does the address decoding for the M1 ROM. The M1 ROM is just above it. I would check all the connectivity out around that area. That CPLD takes 4.3v from the middle of the two diodes which power the board. Look on under side of the PCB where the 2 diodes join - There should be a trace which leads off and is jumpered (probably with a tiny particle of solder) to a trace which goes to a via. Check the connectivity around there to ensure that 4.3v is getting to the CPLD. You could reflow the solder on M1 and that nearby CPLD. I presume you've narrowed it down to this board by swapping the top and bottom boards etc?
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 03-29-2015 at 06:17 AM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    There's a CPLD on the left hand side (not shown on your photos there) - that does the address decoding for the M1 ROM. The M1 ROM is just above it. I would check all the connectivity out around that area. That CPLD takes 4.3v from the middle of the two diodes which power the board. Look on under side of the PCB where the 2 diodes join - There should be a trace which leads off and is jumpered (probably with a tiny particle of solder) to a trace which goes to a via. Check the connectivity around there to ensure that 4.3v is getting to the CPLD. You could reflow the solder on M1 and that nearby CPLD. I presume you've narrowed it down to this board by swapping the top and bottom boards etc?

    Yeah it's definitely that board as I was able to swap parts around to find it. I'll try playing with it some more and thanks for the suggestion as what to look into.

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    Another kind of related video here that I uploaded earlier:-



    This relates to a cap size issue on the PROG16 boards - on an official cart. I had a glitch on my King of Monsters 2 which I was aware of around 18 months ago. I took a look at that cart yesterday and worked out what was causing it! The cap related to the SDRMPX (A47) line is the issue on the PROG16 when used with the MV-1FZ. I had to reduce it from 150pF to 47pF. I've measured the cap I took off and its all OK. It is just related to this game for me - I have other games using the PROG16 board and they are fine. It might vary between PCM chip revisions on the carts as well - I've honestly got no idea but I do know this is the only original cart I've had with the same kind of PCM issues the multicarts suffer. The other interesting aspect to this is I discovered this by chance whilst converting a boot Puzzle Bobble to Fight Fever. After I got the problem on the PROG16 with Fight Fever I then went back to look at King of Monsters. Both work perfectly now.

    I really wish I had a two slot to test with here as I am not sure if these PCM issues only relate to the MV-1FZ or what.
    Last edited by GadgetUK; 03-31-2015 at 05:27 PM.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    Let me know how you get on!
    I applied the sound fix to my 161 today. Great pictures and instructions GadgetUK

    20150331_150019.jpg
    Last edited by SmokeMonster; 03-31-2015 at 04:11 PM.

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    Great job! And, how did you get on - did it fix the PCM issues in Pulstar and Strikers etc? What MVS do you have?
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    Great job! And, how did you get on - did it fix the PCM issues in Pulstar and Strikers etc? What MVS do you have?
    I have no way to test it yet. I'm still waiting on the parts to finish my first CMVS (MV-1C). After that is ready, I have an MV-2F. I'll test on both eventually and post back with the results.

    Update: I also recapped the electrolytic caps in my 161-in-1 since I have a big roll of Nichicon 47uF 100V caps on hand. There are four 47uF16V inside, all HDS (hitachi?) brand. My larger sized 100V caps fit when mounted at a right angle, but just barely. I'd recommend going with 30V or 50V for a perfect fit.
    Last edited by SmokeMonster; 04-01-2015 at 11:51 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GadgetUK View Post
    No problem! Let me know how you get on! It's a shame you couldn't test first without the caps, although they will need adding I am sure.

    I've had feedback from the person that lost sound on his 2 slot when he added the caps - they were 47uF NOT 47pF! He's got some new ones coming! I suspect it will work just the same on the 2 slot.

    I did run mine through a 4 slot, 2 slot, and 1 slot. All worked fine after the caps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Westcb View Post
    I did run mine through a 4 slot, 2 slot, and 1 slot. All worked fine after the caps.
    That's great news =) Thanks for letting me know!
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

  24. #24
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    So far I've been unable to reproduce the volume issue with Strikers on my 120-in-1. I'm using an MV-1AX. Unfortunately I just sold my MV-1FZ that I meant to also test it with, argh.

    I have opened up the case to check the cart and indeed it's missing the caps as mentioned in this fix, and does also have the 'misplaced' resistor in place of the cap.

    You wonder if you'll ever stop hearing the strikers music once doing this test... it etches itself into your brain
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    I think the problem is going to vary from system to system. I suspect some of the boards won't suffer from the problem at all - it might depend on where the traces run on the MVS itself, and also what chip is used - I assume they all have a dedicated YM2610 but that might not be the case, and there might be different revisions of that chip, I've no idea. What I do know is its clearly a possible issue because even official SNK carts have a cap for it (depending on the game boards used). The PROG16 has a cap which is incorrectly rated for the MV-1FZ at least. It could also depend on whether the PSU is earthed correctly or not I guess. If its not glitching on your MV-1AX I suspect that maybe that model has something different regards the YM2610 or the trace routing. I did wonder if some MVS models had a cap on the main board itself to help. Looking at the only MVS schematics I have there's no sign of any cap, but I think the schematics relate to the MV-1FZ =/ AES doesn't either, but that is pretty much an MV-1FZ anyway regards the chipset used.
    My YouTube channel contains some MVS repairs and stuff:-
    http://www.youtube.com/user/GadgetUK164

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