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People do not need to be armed to be shot. This sounds right when you say it out loud, but there are endless scenario's where this is incorrect. If I have a gun, and a large man is charging me, I am going to shoot.
What's this about a black kid being shot again
- Thread starter LoneSage
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People do not need to be armed to be shot. This sounds right when you say it out loud, but there are endless scenario's where this is incorrect. If I have a gun, and a large man is charging me, I am going to shoot.
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Are you a cop or a science nerd?
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Yeah, just forget about the taser or using hand to hand combat training...
Cops are supposed to be professional and uphold the law, not trigger happy amateurs (and pussies) who throw their training out the window.
Shooting an unarmed person without thinking of other non-lethal options? This is true 'Murrican mentality.
The cops could have ended this with a well-deserved ass-beating or tasing, if the kid was in berserker mode. Instead they shot him 6 fucking times.
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Gun Drawn, and a man charges you, you shoot. You don't stop, unVelcro your Taser, and then tell them to stop again. This isn't an FPS where you simply toggle weapons.
That's how you get pistol whipped with your own gun.
You have 2-4 seconds to react. Sure, throw down your gun and get into fisticuffs?!? Goooo UFC MMA because only real men fight....
The idiot should never have challenged a cop with a gun.
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Nothing to do with being a "real man" and machismo bullshit. You have to be sort of naïve to believe that the Cop took the only available course of action, with all that Police training.
It's about the Cop being a fucking professional and trying to avoid loss of life when trained not to be a mindless, cowardly asshole with a gun.
It's about the Police having respect for human life, even a lowly black life (sarcasm).
It's a fucking shame that 'Murrica has this "shoot first" ask questions later mentality.
No wonder so many other developed countries think of us as stupid, racist, ultra-violent, uneducated hillbillies.
It's about the Cop being a fucking professional and trying to avoid loss of life when trained not to be a mindless, cowardly asshole with a gun.
It's about the Police having respect for human life, even a lowly black life (sarcasm).
It's a fucking shame that 'Murrica has this "shoot first" ask questions later mentality.
No wonder so many other developed countries think of us as stupid, racist, ultra-violent, uneducated hillbillies.
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I know next to nothing about guns so apologies if this is dumb, but in this situation wouldn't it be preferable to shoot to stop someone coming at you, rather than to kill him. Like in the leg or something.
Am I making this stuff up off films I've seen or can this happen?
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Funny you mention this. He was shot in the arm 3 times and didn't stop. Then two more in the head put him down.
or
You can tune into Fox News where they tell you his was shot in the back with his hands up. Choose whatever fits your argument better.
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Shot three times in the arm, cops still couldn't subdue him after he was gimped?
Twice in the head, twice.
There was gunshot residue on his clothes, btw. Police haven't let anybody examine what articles of clothing had the residue.
Twice in the head, twice.
There was gunshot residue on his clothes, btw. Police haven't let anybody examine what articles of clothing had the residue.
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No.
No.
No.
NEVER shoot to hurt, you shoot to kill.
In the eyes of the law, lethal force is just that...LETHAL. You never shoot to hurt. A police drawing and using a firearm denotes the need for lethal force. If not, "less than lethal" force must be used.
As for tazing/beating the guy...let me ask you this: How differently would the Rodney King event been taken had a cop just shot him in the head vs a bunch of them kicking the shit out of him? I'm guessing FAR better had they just shot his ass. Sure, there would have been protesting, but a video of them beating him into a pile of mush is what eventually led to the riots happening in the first place.
brentsg
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This isn't a videogame where you get slow-mo time to pick and choose your targeting. Big moving man, couple seconds to get it done. You shoot center mass.
Also, people need to stop gobbling up whatever the media decides to say. Wait for the facts, media is complicit in making this worse and getting people more worked up.
Also, people need to stop gobbling up whatever the media decides to say. Wait for the facts, media is complicit in making this worse and getting people more worked up.
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brentsg
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http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/18/us/missouri-teen-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
First account I've read that details the police perspective.
First account I've read that details the police perspective.
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I think this case will likely hinge on whether or not Brown did in fact charge the officer after attempting to grab his weapon. If he did make a 2nd attempt for the officer's weapon and charge him from a close distance, then well, then he's not leaving the guy too many options. If he was shot from some distance away, well then I'd say the officer is likely culpable to some extent.
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You always shoot center mass (chest cavity) - shooting specific parts of the body is mostly the stuff of hollywood.
The intent when shooting another person is to stop them from being able to attack you. Once they are no longer a threat you stop shooting.
Spot on analysis.
Unarmed means nothing.
A blow to the head with fists is considered a use of deadly force. People seem to forget that.
The standard for justifiable homicide is pretty clear: if you reasonably believed death or grievous bodily harm was about to be perpetrated upon you then you can use deadly force to stop the threat.
If the kid tried to take the officers gun then it's probably a good shoot. Hell, I'd argue simply attacking someone you KNOW has a gun on them could justify deadly force. You're in serious shit if someone takes your gun.
Martials Arts are the things of Dojos and movies. An officer isn't going to engage in "hand to hand" combat against a suspect. That's asinine. If he goes down and loses his weapon then he is in a world of pain. Fighting someone is fucking dangerous, even if you've got two or three other guys. They aren't going to brawl a suspect like Batman.
Taser's arent an instant submission tool. You aren't going to stop someone who is crazy aggressive. . They aren't a wonder-tool hollywood makes them out to be. As a citizen any time I'd need to tase someone, realistically I'd be better off (and most likely justified) in shooting them.
They're supposed to serve and protect...and I agree about not being trigger happy but I think you have a distorted view of Police Training.
I can't agree with your fixation on the suspect being unarmed. Unarmed does not equal no threat.
Do you know how many cops were there when the kid got shot?
I truly don't know.
Also please don't think I'm justifying what the kid or the cop did. Clearly the whole thing needs to be investigated so we can actually know whether he was in the right or wrong.
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Phyeir
My only regret is that I have... Boneitis!
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Correct.
One of the main rules when you take an NRA safety course, "Never point a firearm at anything unless you intend to destroy it."
Destroy may sound harsh, but that's the gravity of the situation you are doing by taking a firearm and pointing it.
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It was amazing reading through the passive racist post here that try to validate the racial profiling of predominately minorities, perspectives of which are coming from people who have no fucking ideal what it feels like to go through life on the receiving end of such hatred.
Ever been out and about just minding your business and suddenly have cops confront you because you fit a profile. Here's just one of my many harassment stories. One day I was at a burger joint waiting for my order to come up playing some metal slug on a big red to pass the time. While playing I noticed out the window some pigs pull up.
They entered the place and just approached me and begin to tell me that it was reported someone matching my description had caused some problems in the neighboring Taco Bell. Do you know how it feels to just randomly out of no where be accused of something you did not do based on the color of your skin, these two pigs had nothing else but that to go on while looking for their so called culprit.
My first thought of the allegation was to respond with insults and profanity but luckily I opted to keep my composure and to rationally handle the situation as opposed to giving the pigs a reason to escalate things with violence. The whole time I never looked the pigs in the eyes and I just kept playing slug to show them they weren't intimidating me in the least.
I responded to their claim by bringing up the fact that if in fact I was the one they were looking for I should be on the security surveillance. They thought this over for a second and responded by saying stay out of Taco Bell than took their racist sorry asses on. My crime was fitting a profile and according to a certain Moderator here that I once had a conversation with by his logic if you don't want to be randomly harassed than you shouldn't fit a profile which in this case was basically being a minority.
Michael Brown was a bully and thief but to say that the punishment far outweigh the crime is a understatement.
And while blacks are currently and rightfully outraged at being potential targets for summary execution by cops and society at large the community is told "Time to listen, not just shout".
The situation in Ferguson is just the most televised incident of cops killing unarmed minorities. There has been 4 incidents this month alone of cops executing Blacks racist Judge Dredd style.
Ever been out and about just minding your business and suddenly have cops confront you because you fit a profile. Here's just one of my many harassment stories. One day I was at a burger joint waiting for my order to come up playing some metal slug on a big red to pass the time. While playing I noticed out the window some pigs pull up.
They entered the place and just approached me and begin to tell me that it was reported someone matching my description had caused some problems in the neighboring Taco Bell. Do you know how it feels to just randomly out of no where be accused of something you did not do based on the color of your skin, these two pigs had nothing else but that to go on while looking for their so called culprit.
My first thought of the allegation was to respond with insults and profanity but luckily I opted to keep my composure and to rationally handle the situation as opposed to giving the pigs a reason to escalate things with violence. The whole time I never looked the pigs in the eyes and I just kept playing slug to show them they weren't intimidating me in the least.
I responded to their claim by bringing up the fact that if in fact I was the one they were looking for I should be on the security surveillance. They thought this over for a second and responded by saying stay out of Taco Bell than took their racist sorry asses on. My crime was fitting a profile and according to a certain Moderator here that I once had a conversation with by his logic if you don't want to be randomly harassed than you shouldn't fit a profile which in this case was basically being a minority.
Michael Brown was a bully and thief but to say that the punishment far outweigh the crime is a understatement.
And while blacks are currently and rightfully outraged at being potential targets for summary execution by cops and society at large the community is told "Time to listen, not just shout".
The situation in Ferguson is just the most televised incident of cops killing unarmed minorities. There has been 4 incidents this month alone of cops executing Blacks racist Judge Dredd style.
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This should be quoted again.
If anything good comes from this maybe we will get a real reexamination of policing in America. Add that to some reform on the asinine War on Drugs and we'd be golden.
Crom knows we've got a decent little police state.
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By that logic, anybody who has a gun (even if they were the initial aggressor) has the right to shoot anybody who attempts to defend themselves. What if said gun-toting aggressor makes an unarmed person genuinely fear for their life?
That's a fucked up way to look at things. Especially in the case of Police officers, who already have the legal system on their side, should they be prosecuted.
As for your other objections, I know that Officers receive hand to hand combat training. If they aren't supposed to use it, why train them in that skill? I've seen many videos of Police officers subdue a person via hand to hand techniques and/or tasing.
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Oh come on now, do you think that's what I meant? I'm talking about a justifiable use of deadly force. If someone attacks and they're gonna beat your ass and you have a gun you can shoot back. "Fighting" isn't a game or something kids do. If someone is punching you or kicking you then you're gonna get hurt, possibly badly - maybe paralyzed or even killed. Google "one punch kill" or "one punch paralysis" for some good times, anecdotal evidence of course.
Officers probably should be prosecuted when their shoots aren't good. They should also be prosecuted when they engage in other unlawful activities, particularly illegal arrests when they should have reasonably known what they were doing was illegal.
How many cops use their guns in their entire career. Do you think they have to requalify in hand to hand? I dunno man. Their training isn't exactly up to par.
Again I don't know the specifics of the actual scenario in question. I'd assume hand to hand is a dangerous technique when your evenly matched. I'd employ other options.
Sure, depends on the person being subdued, the skill of the cop, and the situation.
We need more facts.
groundzero
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groundzero
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Got it
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brentsg
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As a rule of thumb, I'm not attacking someone with a gun unless I'm planning to get shot. If some armed person is making me fear for my life, then I'm making myself as non-threatening as possible. To think you'd engage in a little hand to hand combat to settle things is just Hollywood.
