NeoVGA: Lagless, pixel-perfect line doubler for Neo-Geo MVS and AES

amazing stuff mike.

Hey dude, what kind of switch do we need to flip between all the outputs?

Really impressive! Would love to buy one when you start selling them!

Xian Xi said:

Hey dude, what kind of switch do we need to flip between all the outputs?

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All options only require a switch to close a connection to ground. The default options are pulled high by pullup resistors, so to set an option the switch must just close a connection (___./ .__ to ___.__.__).

The options are:

[Name] [Off/Default '1'] [Set '0']
1) Colorspace: RGB | YPbPr
2) Scanlines 0: 100% | 0%
3) Scanlines 1: 50% | 0%
4) Resolution: 480p | 240p

480p RGB (VGA): switches 1 and 4 open (default).
480p YPbPr (Component): switch 1 closed, switch 4 open.
240p RGB: switch 4 closed.
240p YPbPr:means switches 1 and 4 closed.

The scanline switch combinations are simply a matter of personal preference and will not change the output mode.

For the user, this means two switches for resolution (480p/240p) and colorspace (RGB/component). For testing I have a bank of four dip switches, which let me control the four properties.

In 240p mode, Composite Sync is output on the HSync pin (VGA pin 13) as this lets it be compatible with many VGA projectors, the XRGB series with VGA inputs, VGA to BNC adapters, and many other applications utilizing a VGA port. When YPbPr is enabled, Sync-on-Luma is enabled and the CSync signal is not needed, though you may still use it. There is no need for anything like a sync cleaner or separator.

There are two option pads on the top-left as well. One of them (J1) specifies that you're using an MV-1C (or any other NEO-GRZ based system, like an all-in-one or maybe some CD systems?); leaving it open (default) is for all other Neo systems including MVS, AES, some NGCD, and even Neo Print Club if you own one of those. The other one (J2) enables Sync-On-Green, which some Sony Trinitron monitors will accept. Seems like a harmless inclusion that'll be off by default.

Now that I have a RC1 board finished I can take some pictures and begin a preliminary guide.

Wow, everything looks and sounds great. Can't wait to buy and install this bad boy

Even though I want one. And $100 sounds great. You're being too cheap on your effort man. All that work + 1 hr for assembly. Yeah, bump the price. Or make the first X number cheaper to help recoup your cost quick. Then bump your price.

**course that's my random unsolicited 2 cents.

Yeah $100 seems cheap. I mean i would be interested in 2 of them so me saying that is only going to hurt me. But still...i would consider charging a little more. This is a considerable upgrade from the high end component Jrok or Neobitz that are also impossible to get now, and they cost over $80.

It's really tough to think of things like pricing. On the one hand, a low price helps adoption. On the other, lots of time went into it, and I had no idea the existing encoder options were so pricey.

I am looking at having the boards manufactured a little closer now. I may need to raise the price a little if I do an option like that, but it would save me hours of labor and ordering in bulk will reduce component cost a tiny bit.

A little more research is to be done. I'm also working on CPS2 right now, which is so close but has a few glitches still.

mikejmoffitt said:

I'm also working on CPS2 right now, which is so close but has a few glitches still.

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Good luck! I'd be a buyer of this as well

so I can literally hook up my neo to the vga port of a hdtv that has no post processing and play at dreamcast level laglessness? This could be a godlike set up for my neo megalo 410 that was gutted that I modded out. I'd just need a MVS to AES converter and I can be rocking any game on this no problem.

LWK said:

so I can literally hook up my neo to the vga port of a hdtv that has no post processing and play at dreamcast level laglessness? This could be a godlike set up for my neo megalo 410 that was gutted that I modded out. I'd just need a MVS to AES converter and I can be rocking any game on this no problem.

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Yep exactly. I spent the weekend on another project but the pace will pick up some more this week.

Almost done with CPS2:




The shitty pixels in the lifebars are my monitor not getting the pixel clock right. This one will be tougher, since the CPS2's pixels are taller than they are wide. There's nothing I can really do about that, so it's a matter of how your monitor likes it or not. A CRT will be fine.

NOICE!

Hi Mike
Thanks for the awesome work. Is the cps2 and neo geo using different pcb or the same? If the latter will it be automatic detection or a programming thing

XeD said:

Hi Mike
Thanks for the awesome work. Is the cps2 and neo geo using different pcb or the same? If the latter will it be automatic detection or a programming thing

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Same PCB, different programming. The boards are easy to reprogram if you get a $10 USB blaster clone. I will program it with the appropriate firmware before sending it out.

Okay, bad news. I don't know if $100 is going to cut it. Looking at manufacture costs, I'd be just barely breaking even. For one or two boards doing it by hand is fine, but I can't fulfill orders that way - it's too much labor, and bending over the iron for multiple hours like that is bad for the back and eyes. Considering the price of things like the NeoBitz / JROK encoder (~$80) and the high quality upscaler solutions or PVM/BVM monitors (~$300), does $160 sound fair or is that high enough that it's a dealbreaker for people? I see the product as a midway between the lower and higher end solutions in what it offers, so having the price reflect that seems like it might be acceptable.

mikejmoffitt said:

Okay, bad news. I don't know if $100 is going to cut it. Looking at manufacture costs, I'd be just barely breaking even. For one or two boards doing it by hand is fine, but I can't fulfill orders that way - it's too much labor, and bending over the iron for multiple hours like that is bad for the back and eyes. Considering the price of things like the NeoBitz / JROK encoder (~$80) and the high quality upscaler solutions or PVM/BVM monitors (~$300), does $160 sound fair or is that high enough that it's a dealbreaker for people? I see the product as a midway between the lower and higher end solutions in what it offers, so having the price reflect that seems like it might be acceptable.

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I would still be interested in 1, thanks!

mikejmoffitt said:

Okay, bad news. I don't know if $100 is going to cut it. Looking at manufacture costs, I'd be just barely breaking even. For one or two boards doing it by hand is fine, but I can't fulfill orders that way - it's too much labor, and bending over the iron for multiple hours like that is bad for the back and eyes. Considering the price of things like the NeoBitz / JROK encoder (~$80) and the high quality upscaler solutions or PVM/BVM monitors (~$300), does $160 sound fair or is that high enough that it's a dealbreaker for people? I see the product as a midway between the lower and higher end solutions in what it offers, so having the price reflect that seems like it might be acceptable.

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Would you consider a kit version? I don't think I could justify $160 but if I could get a kit for ~$80 or whatever then that would be a lot more attractive. Not intending to devalue your time at all, just I personally would prefer to put a single board together myself to save a few bucks

mikejmoffitt said:

Okay, bad news. I don't know if $100 is going to cut it. Looking at manufacture costs, I'd be just barely breaking even. For one or two boards doing it by hand is fine, but I can't fulfill orders that way - it's too much labor, and bending over the iron for multiple hours like that is bad for the back and eyes. Considering the price of things like the NeoBitz / JROK encoder (~$80) and the high quality upscaler solutions or PVM/BVM monitors (~$300), does $160 sound fair or is that high enough that it's a dealbreaker for people? I see the product as a midway between the lower and higher end solutions in what it offers, so having the price reflect that seems like it might be acceptable.

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Will this come with all applicable wires and rca inputs just like the neobitz encoder? Pretty much ready to install just needing to solder to the board. If it does that seems like a fair price

vinnieboy1 said:

Will this come with all applicable wires and rca inputs just like the neobitz encoder? Pretty much ready to install just needing to solder to the board. If it does that seems like a fair price

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I'm thinking I'd include a small lead of coaxial wire for the clock, as that's the sensitive one.The rest I'd just recommend some wire-wrap wire, and providing pre-cut wires wouldn't work so well because what's good for one Neo won't be the same as another. The more annoying one, though, I'd want to include for sure. Including a VGA port should be no hassle either; maybe I can make a nice little mounting board for that like NESRGB has for the S-video and RGB ports.

fluxcore said:

Would you consider a kit version? I don't think I could justify $160 but if I could get a kit for ~$80 or whatever then that would be a lot more attractive. Not intending to devalue your time at all, just I personally would prefer to put a single board together myself to save a few bucks

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I'm not against selling the kit, but I wouldn't be able to provide any support really other than advice. Some of the soldering is "hard" - I don't think so, but I think many people don't like SMT work. You would also have to program the board, which you can do with a $10 programmer. It's easy, just busywork.

mikejmoffitt said:

I'm not against selling the kit, but I wouldn't be able to provide any support really other than advice. Some of the soldering is "hard" - I don't think so, but I think many people don't like SMT work. You would also have to program the board, which you can do with a $10 programmer. It's easy, just busywork.

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I'd be down for a kit(s) /directions on a web page.JMkurtz went this route for the most part.
BB

Perhaps it would be best if I made a video of what it's like to assemble it so people can get an idea of what's involved. I think I can go lower than $160, but $100 is definitely too low.

I'm still interested for sure. It's hard to put a value on both the work put into figuring this out as well as your actual labor for assembly.

If you aren't making at least something off of each one that's not really fair to you. Realistically i think $160 is gonna be close to if not at the breaking point for some people. But if you are making them to order in batches that shouldn't be an issue. Not like you'll have extras laying around costing you money.

In the end a fair price is one where you make some money and people get something they can't get anywhere else.

I think the price point is pretty reasonable considering everything that's going into this. I'd still be down for some. I can fully understand all the work that goes into it, but I do agree with some folks that the higher price might be a breaking point for some. That being said, I can see the view from both sides. Regardless, you've done amazing work with this, and I'm still very excited for it!