The Delicious Big Hunk of Shit Console & Greasy Food Thread

christoph · Mar 13, 2014

@opt2not I know this is the big question and we've got a unique way to achieve no emulation. We'll definitely be laying it all out at launch. This is only the teaser -- bear with me and we'll have all the final details at the end of the month.

I appreciate everyones interest so far and thanks for the feedback and thoughts!

Skips · Mar 13, 2014

K-2 said:
It's not like there aren't 50 million Nintendos kicking around....

This is a shit way to look at it. They do not make these systems any more. If people start sacking working units to make something else with them there will not be a lot of original working units available after a period of time. This already happened with Neo-Geo games from people making conversions/bootlegs with cheaper games. There are other non destructive methods of getting RGB out of the NES and or recreating the system entirely without destroying working units.

Zenimus · Mar 13, 2014

Skips said:
There are other non destructive methods of getting RGB out of the NES and or recreating the system entirely without destroying working units.

How long has this been true? For the longest time, if you wanted RGB from an NES, it seemed the only way was to use Playchoice PPUs, or that Famicom Titler thing. Retron's, Super 8's, and all the other clones could never do anything better than composite for NES.

The fact that this Analogue Nt can makes it pretty remarkable.

Skips · Mar 13, 2014

Zenimus said:
How long has this been true? For the longest time, if you wanted RGB from an NES, it seemed the only way was to use Playchoice PPUs, or that Famicom Titler thing. Retron's, Super 8's, and all the other clones could never do anything better than composite for NES.

The fact that this Analogue Nt can makes it pretty remarkable.

http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/

This has been out since October of 2013. God only knows I plaster it all over this place enough in the various forums. Even posted it in this thread earlier. It will even do the original NES palette or the PC10 palette all without destroying an NES or PC 10 PCB.

opt2not · Mar 13, 2014

Edited since Skips answered that question.

Zenimus · Mar 13, 2014

That's an amazing breakthrough.

opt2not said:
Edited since Skips answered that question.

I saw your pic before you edited it, do you have one then? I'd like to get some more info on games that typically have compatibility issues.

For example, on a Playchoice mod PPU:

• Paperboy becomes essentially unplayable due to color palette problems
• Mike Tyson's Punch Out gets text glitches in the screens between rounds
• Browns become a little more orange, and purples become a little more pink
• Castlevania III, which doesn't usually work in clones, works perfectly
• Extremely faint vertical bar distortions, normally invisible on a standard NES, are seen in areas of bright solid color

There's others, but those are the most blatant that I've experienced over the years. I'd love to see how this new board stacks up against the Playchoice 10 PPU and the Analogue Nt.

Skips · Mar 13, 2014

Zenimus said:
That's an amazing breakthrough.

I saw your pic before you edited it, do you have one then? I'd like to get some more info on games that typically have compatibility issues.

For example, on a Playchoice mod PPU:

• Paperboy becomes essentially unplayable due to color palette problems
• Mike Tyson's Punch Out gets text glitches in the screens between rounds
• Browns become a little more orange, and purples become a little more pink
• Castlevania III, which doesn't usually work in clones, works perfectly
• Extremely faint vertical bar distortions, normally invisible on a standard NES, are seen in areas of bright solid color

There's others, but those are the most blatant that I've experienced over the years. I'd love to see how this new board stacks up against the Playchoice 10 PPU and the Analogue Nt.

When set to the stock NES palette all games are 100% compatible and run as they should on an NES (but in RGB). If you use the PC 10 palette you will still get the few incompatibilities out there. You install a switch on the system to change between them so you can change them on the fly as needed. There are no jailbars (vertical bars) or distortions. None of the glitches from the old PC10 PPU mods are there either. It will run just like an NES should except in RGB.

Here is a pic of mine running the PC10 palette on Mario 3

ki_atsushi · Mar 13, 2014

While I don't usually condone the destruction of original consoles, TV's will eventually phase out composite and even component connections. (I know you can hook up the yellow RCA to green component to get picture, but it looks like shit on HDTV's.) Who knows how long RF will be on TV's too? Cable boxes are even going HDMI.

Hell, my new Samsung doesn't even have composite (only 1 set of component), nor a 15-pin RGB input for monitor use! How long will all those NES consoles be playable even if they still work?

Modding (or saccing these consoles for the creation of new ones) to make them work with HDMI is the way.

HeavyMachineGoob · Mar 13, 2014

I think it's pretty obvious that AI has "licensed" out the Super 8 replacement NES board, which uses sac CPUs and PPUs, along with viletim's RGBNES board. It's really quite a great plan, max profit while taking advantage of other people's work.

I will be shocked if this thing uses a FPGA to replicate the original hardware, which by the way is not emulation. An FPGA is basically a programmable general purpose ASIC, capable of replicating any kind of chip. All it takes is someone fluent in Verilog / VDHL. The FPGA is the modern day equivalent of a Nintendo on a chip. Both are hardware, no software emulation, just reduced into one chip. SNK's MV-1C is similarly reduced in size and is still hardware based.

opt2not · Mar 13, 2014

Zenimus said:
I saw your pic before you edited it, do you have one then? I'd like to get some more info on games that typically have compatibility issues.

Yeah, sorry, I didn't want to repeat what Skips said.
Yes, I have it installed in my setup, and did throw some images up in the CRT worship thread: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...etish-Thread&p=3674911&viewfull=1#post3674911

So far, I haven't found any compatibility issues. But I have my palette set to original. There has been reports of some of the hacked roms having some glitches when running them off flash carts like a Powerpak or Everdrive, but viletim has been able to address some of them with firmware updates. That's another thing great about this thing, you can update the firmware for more support/features!

My install has stereo (dual-mono) wired, as well as the expansion audio mixed in. Akumajō Densetsu sounds incredible with the expansion audio! I also love playing this version because some of the enemies and backgrounds look different/better.

Zenimus · Mar 13, 2014

Ultimo CuloTubo said:
While I don't usually condone the destruction of original consoles, TV's will eventually phase out composite and even component connections. (I know you can hook up the yellow RCA to green component to get picture, but it looks like shit on HDTV's.) Who knows how long RF will be on TV's too? Cable boxes are even going HDMI.

Hell, my new Samsung doesn't even have composite (only 1 set of component), nor a 15-pin RGB input for monitor use! How long will all those NES consoles be playable even if they still work?

Modding (or saccing these consoles for the creation of new ones) to make them work with HDMI is the way.

Not exactly. The best way is to get an upscaler that has HDMI out, like the XRGB-mini does. They support every kind of input, have pretty much no lag, and handle all the upscaling work so your TV won't have to (most TV's, except Samsungs, aren't that good at it). They're expensive, but absolutely worth it.

Skips, I assume you're using one to get that interlacing effect? (just curious)

theMot · Mar 13, 2014

Ultimo CuloTubo said:
While I don't usually condone the destruction of original consoles, TV's will eventually phase out composite and even component connections. (I know you can hook up the yellow RCA to green component to get picture, but it looks like shit on HDTV's.) Who knows how long RF will be on TV's too? Cable boxes are even going HDMI.

Hell, my new Samsung doesn't even have composite (only 1 set of component), nor a 15-pin RGB input for monitor use! How long will all those NES consoles be playable even if they still work?

Modding (or saccing these consoles for the creation of new ones) to make them work with HDMI is the way.

I think there will be enough demand eventually that a niche manufacturer will reproduce nice CRT's. It's kind of like classic cars, there is a booming market of niche parts factories for that stuff because there is enough demand. I see the same thing happening to CRT's.

Skips · Mar 13, 2014

Ultimo CuloTubo said:
While I don't usually condone the destruction of original consoles, TV's will eventually phase out composite and even component connections. (I know you can hook up the yellow RCA to green component to get picture, but it looks like shit on HDTV's.) Who knows how long RF will be on TV's too? Cable boxes are even going HDMI.

Hell, my new Samsung doesn't even have composite (only 1 set of component), nor a 15-pin RGB input for monitor use! How long will all those NES consoles be playable even if they still work?

Modding (or saccing these consoles for the creation of new ones) to make them work with HDMI is the way.

I have a brand new Samsung and its composite is shared with the Y component port. You sure yours is not the same? Most new HDTV's still have it they just don't make a separate port for it.

Skips · Mar 13, 2014

Zenimus said:
Not exactly. The best way is to get an upscaler that has HDMI out, like the XRGB-mini does. They support every kind of input, have pretty much no lag, and handle all the upscaling work so your TV won't have to (most TV's, except Samsungs, aren't that good at it). They're expensive, but absolutely worth it.

Skips, I assume you're using one to get that interlacing effect? (just curious)

No, I am using an Sony PVM-20L5 via RGB at 240p.

opt2not · Mar 13, 2014

Zenimus said:
Not exactly. The best way is to get an upscaler that has HDMI out, like the XRGB-mini does. They support every kind of input, have pretty much no lag, and handle all the upscaling work so your TV won't have to (most TV's, except Samsungs, aren't that good at it). They're expensive, but absolutely worth it.

Skips, I assume you're using one to get that interlacing effect? (just curious)

If you're interested, here's a few shots of my NESRGB moded setup going to my 55" Plasma via XRGB-mini (scanlines on):

ki_atsushi · Mar 13, 2014

Skips said:
I have a brand new Samsung and its composite is shared with the Y component port. You sure yours is not the same? Most new HDTV's still have it they just don't make a separate port for it.

If you read my post...

Zenimus · Mar 13, 2014

opt2not said:
If you're interested, here's a few shots of my NESRGB moded setup going to my 55" Plasma via XRGB-mini (scanlines on):

Those pics are just beautiful. I'm not a big scanline fan, but the sharpness of those pixels is just sublime. That's why an XRGB is worth it!

I'm really hoping that the Analogue Nt can match that sharpness. I've already modded my childhood NES with a Playchoice PPU, but I'm really considering upgrading to an Nt if its video quality is up to the level of this NESRGB board.

Skips · Mar 13, 2014

Nevermind saw that last bit

HeavyMachineGoob · Mar 13, 2014

A lot of new HDTVs are HDMI only, no NTSC or analog signals present.

cdamm · Mar 13, 2014

Chupame Esfinter said:
I think there will be enough demand eventually that a niche manufacturer will reproduce nice CRT's. It's kind of like classic cars, there is a booming market of niche parts factories for that stuff because there is enough demand. I see the same thing happening to CRT's.

the problem is (at least here in the states) is new crt manufacture cannot be made bigger than 20" (i believe thats the size) now. Its causing havoc with being able to get new crt monitors for cabs.

K-2 · Mar 13, 2014

Skips said:
This is a shit way to look at it. They do not make these systems any more. If people start sacking working units to make something else with them there will not be a lot of original working units available after a period of time. This already happened with Neo-Geo games from people making conversions/bootlegs with cheaper games. There are other non destructive methods of getting RGB out of the NES and or recreating the system entirely without destroying working units.

Don't get me wrong I think it would be great if they had a way to not sacrifice a working NES to make one of these new "NTs," but consider how many of these AI will make, how many NES/famicoms were produced. When all was said and done there would still be about 49,998,000 Nintendos left untouched. The supply of Neo-Geo hardware and carts is drastically more dear compared to a system that everyone and their grandmother bought.

My 2 cents.

Dr Shroom · Mar 13, 2014

Too much trouble, just stick to emulation. Doesn't cost $500 either.

theMot · Mar 13, 2014

Anaranjado Comandante said:
the problem is (at least here in the states) is new crt manufacture cannot be made bigger than 20" (i believe thats the size) now. Its causing havoc with being able to get new crt monitors for cabs.

Why is that? Something to do with the whole "green religion" thing?

Fuckin greenies.

ApolloBoy · Mar 13, 2014

Chupame Esfinter said:
Why is that? Something to do with the whole "green religion" thing?

Fuckin greenies.

Actually I would think it has more to do with the fact that big CRTs aren't in much demand these days, considering you can get gigantic screens and they don't take up much space or weigh a ton. Big CRTs are nice but goddamn they're a total bitch to set up.

Dr Shroom · Mar 13, 2014

ApolloBoy said:
Actually I would think it has more to do with the fact that big CRTs aren't in much demand these days, considering you can get gigantic screens and they don't take up much space or weigh a ton. Big CRTs are nice but goddamn they're a total bitch to set up.

True, thats why I dumped my 50kg heavy Trinitron last month.

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