Could SNK have made a better SNK vs Capcom on Neo Geo hardware than SVC Chaos?

sinister

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I used to be a huge SNK fan. It's not that I hate them it's just that I stopped playing games after Neo Geo battle coliseum and King of fighters 2003. I played the first Maximum Impact. It's not that it was a bad game...but I just didn't see why I would play an inferior spinoff of a good series that offers nothing special besides the graphics that weren't all that impressive. I did buy several of the ps2 collections and PS3 network ports of Fatal Fury, AOF. and KOF games. In 2003 or whatever year it was there was no game I anticipated more than SNK's version of the vs game. I found CVS1 a tad disappointing but CVS 2 excellent if for no other reason than the variety that was offered.

SVC chaos was released. I played it at the Arcade and on Xbox. I like the game but I can't help but feel that if SNK would have made this several years earlier it would have turned out far better. I think the game is quite possibly the least balanced of all SNK fighters I have ever played. I thought the game didn't have enough characters and that SNK went out of their way to pick obscure characters simply for the sake of being different than Capcom. I also don't like art style as much as I did either the Capcom or SNK style art from CVS. The game didn't even have "grooves" even KOF 98 managed to have 2 modes. There was a dash function but no running. I also feel like I would have strongly preferred Level 3/ maximum desperation moves to the once per fight exceed moves or whatever they were called. I hated the ratio system but I like how CVS 2 had a 3 on 3 team option in the home version. I feel SNK and Capcom both have made great music in their game s but I don't remember any SVC music leaving an impression on me. The stages seem bland and uninspired. The least they could have done was to try and incorporate stages and music that were from previous games. Certain motions for Street Fighter characters didn't feel as easy to do in svc chaos or feel right like they do in actual Capcom games.

I swear that SNK several years earlier on MVS and AES have made games that beat SVC chaos in every area. I also heard people say SVC chaos was ONLY made out of contractual obligation. Other people have said that the team that made SVC chaos is not exactly the same people who made SNK's games when they were in their prime. I can't tell what is true except that SVC chaos wasn't that great. If SNK can re release and alter KOF 98 and 02 (which wasn't even made by them) I would like to know why nobody improved on SVC chaos. I even like the concept of the NGPC version of SVC better. Imagine a 4 button version of that on a KOF engine with more characters.

What do you think?
 

neo-geo-mvs

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I really like Capcom vs SNK. Along with Marvel vs Capcom 2 - was the reason I bought a Dreamcast.

I also like SNK vs Capcom on the neo. It was probably a rushed game and would have been more polished if the original neo crew had created it, say the GMOTW crew.

Still fun and great to play Street Fighter characters on the neo - something in the 90s you could never have imagined
 

Boredom

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Short answer: Yes, they could have, but the game was rushed and they didn't get the opportunity to make a band-aid edition like SSV Special.

Unless you count NGBC, which is very clearly a spiritual successor to SVC in aesthetics and mechanics, minus the Capcom characters.
 

Neorebel

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I really like Capcom vs SNK. Along with Marvel vs Capcom 2 - was the reason I bought a Dreamcast.

I also like SNK vs Capcom on the neo. It was probably a rushed game and would have been more polished if the original neo crew had created it, say the GMOTW crew.

Still fun and great to play Street Fighter characters on the neo - something in the 90s you could never have imagined


My sentiments exactly. Those Dreamcast days sure were fun, and I totally got the MVS cart of SVC Chaos just for the novelty of looking at Capcom characters on my neo cab.
 

GutsDozer

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I really like SVC Chaos. Flaws included. It gives the game character.
 

trenog

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SVC Chaos is great for the intro video, the selection of Capcom fighters (realized in full Neo style), the fireside fight with Takuma/Akuma (not the actual fight, but the aesthetics) and the weird selection of bonus characters once you get a hold of them.

Balance is certainly a problem, and so it hit detection and music, but there is evidence of something that could have been better with it. Also, I've got nostalgia on my side so all arguments against it are impervious against my defenses ;)
 

Psygnosis8

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Svc chaos is a tragedy, really. It's soon beautiful but totally broken. The controls are really bad and I have a lot of trouble getting the moves to work.

They definitely could have done a better job. All it really needs is some balance tweaks and to have the controls reevaluated. There are so many other great fighters on the system that are as aesthetically pleasing as svc chaos that do a much better job.
 

SNKorSWM

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This is the only neo geo title that I prefer the hack over the original version, where all of the secret characters can be viewed and selected without having to input any codes.
 

alby13

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I used to be a huge SNK fan. It's not that I hate them it's just that I stopped playing games after Neo Geo battle coliseum and King of fighters 2003. I played the first Maximum Impact. It's not that it was a bad game...but I just didn't see why I would play an inferior spinoff of a good series that offers nothing special besides the graphics that weren't all that impressive. I did buy several of the ps2 collections and PS3 network ports of Fatal Fury, AOF. and KOF games. In 2003 or whatever year it was there was no game I anticipated more than SNK's version of the vs game. I found CVS1 a tad disappointing but CVS 2 excellent if for no other reason than the variety that was offered.

SVC chaos was released. I played it at the Arcade and on Xbox. I like the game but I can't help but feel that if SNK would have made this several years earlier it would have turned out far better. I think the game is quite possibly the least balanced of all SNK fighters I have ever played. I thought the game didn't have enough characters and that SNK went out of their way to pick obscure characters simply for the sake of being different than Capcom. I also don't like art style as much as I did either the Capcom or SNK style art from CVS. The game didn't even have "grooves" even KOF 98 managed to have 2 modes. There was a dash function but no running. I also feel like I would have strongly preferred Level 3/ maximum desperation moves to the once per fight exceed moves or whatever they were called. I hated the ratio system but I like how CVS 2 had a 3 on 3 team option in the home version. I feel SNK and Capcom both have made great music in their game s but I don't remember any SVC music leaving an impression on me. The stages seem bland and uninspired. The least they could have done was to try and incorporate stages and music that were from previous games. Certain motions for Street Fighter characters didn't feel as easy to do in svc chaos or feel right like they do in actual Capcom games.

I swear that SNK several years earlier on MVS and AES have made games that beat SVC chaos in every area. I also heard people say SVC chaos was ONLY made out of contractual obligation. Other people have said that the team that made SVC chaos is not exactly the same people who made SNK's games when they were in their prime. I can't tell what is true except that SVC chaos wasn't that great. If SNK can re release and alter KOF 98 and 02 (which wasn't even made by them) I would like to know why nobody improved on SVC chaos. I even like the concept of the NGPC version of SVC better. Imagine a 4 button version of that on a KOF engine with more characters.

What do you think?

short answer: yes

i agree with you on some points. it did have bland things.

wasted opportunity, but they did the best that they could with what they had. it wasn't revolutionary and that would have probably been the better route to go.
 

NeoEsZ

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I have a pretty strong feeling that most of those "secret" characters and sub-bosses were just meant to be playable from the start, but they were terrible at balancing the game and needed to push the damn thing out so they locked out nearly a 1/3rd of the roster and called them sub-bosses. Like, I can maybe understand Shin Akuma and Shin Mr. Karate being bosses and Athena and Firebrand being secret bosses, but characters like Geeze, Orochi Iori, Violent Ken, Demetri and the lot definitely should have been balanced and playable from the start.

Even CVS 1 had playable characters who were bosses in their own respective games. Mars People and Zero being locked out is straight up dumb considering they're two of the best characters to play as. SVC Special would have been a good game. It's a shame it didn't happen.
 

Fygee

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Another year of development for balance and tweaks, replacing a couple of the backgrounds with something better (the trainyard was god awful, and the rotating power station could've used more color), and I would've been perfectly fine with the game.

That said, a new game by SNK with the developers who made KOF XIII, or even one from Capcom with Dimps developing it would be greatly welcomed.
 

alec

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Trash.

Just look at Guile.
Look at Sagat, his limbs grow and shrink.
You can chain a fierce punch into a medium kick.

Trash.
 

NeoGeoNinja

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Again...

Short Answer: Definitely.

Long Answer: MOTW existed in 99/00.
 

bloodhokuto

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SVC is 10 years old!!!

I hated SVC when it came out, although I only got the port.

A while back I picked up the PCB for a song and have had a great time playing it.

It has some great BG's too - Nude Place for example is cracking. Even some of the 'boring' ones are actually pretty good (when before I thought they were atrocious).

OK, I'm no fighting game pro, but I like how it plays too.

No doubt they game was thrown out as quickly as possible, and one wonders what could have been, had they done a full--on job of it.

I like it nonetheless, was pleasantly surprised by it after 10 years (Jesus!). As you can get the pcb for nowt, its definitely worth getting.

Its better than KOF12! :tickled:
 

trenog

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Based on the price this game is going for on ebay, I'd say that people like it just fine...At $600/kit... :spock:
 

Mattitude

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Holy crap! I remember when I bought my kit from the Neo Store brand new when they had tons of them for under 200.00 for the kit...and I got free posters with it too. Personally I like the game but probably because I'm not the "fighting purist" that others are I don't see all of the flaws that they do so I'm not as critical.

Based on the price this game is going for on ebay, I'd say that people like it just fine...At $600/kit... :spock:
 

evil wasabi

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Could CvS2 have been better? Yes! if it wasn't made by Crapcom. In fact, if it wasn't made at all. CvS2 was crap. Don't put on some rose tint glasses for CvS2. It was a shitty game. It has only gotten shittier with time.

SvC wasn't a great game, but it was better looking. The cast was more thought out. The real problem is that most people didn't have the luxury of playing it in the arcades. And with that comes the problem that all fighting games faced in the 2000s. No skilled player to open your eyes to the finer details of a game while killing your credit. No 2 player competition to give you the competition that the developers intended. So games are instead judged on how boring they are in 1 player mode. If that's the yard stick, then SvC definitely loses to CvS2, but more due to the roster size and fact that 1 player fighting games are inherently boring after a few minutes.

I'm still confused who thought Eagle and Maki should have been in CvS. What quantity of skunk had to be smoked before that mistake was decided upon?
 

Boredom

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CvS2 is the polar opposite of SVC. It's a great fighter burdened with terrible audiovisuals and presentation (1994 Morrigan sprite ahoy!). Aside from K-Groove being bullshit (too much damage for no effort) and a couple other things, it holds up really well on a competitive level. Don't diss SF's original gentleman Eagle, or my desperation-attacking waifu Maki.

I find SVC more interesting in single-player due to the large number of bosses, character-specific dialogue, and ending illustrations, though. CvS2 has character endings, but they're text-only.
 

Tyranix95

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All art aside,

Capcom characters don't translate well to NEO because they loose 2 buttons (Strong and Med). Both key for chain combos and cross-over attacks. So, the characters are hindered, and thus less interesting.

But, NEO characters translate well to CAPCOM because they gain 2 buttons (Strong and Med). Both not really key for combos, but the added attacks are helpful. So the characters seem enhanced, and thus more interesting.
 
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wildo2ne

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The only thing I don't like is that the control scheme for the Capcom characters are designed around the SNK design, the Capcom characters just feel wrong when you play as them. What would have been nice to see was the control scheme setup according to character such as Capcom more matching the Street Fighter setup and the SNK matching the Fatal Fury setup.
 

Pope Sazae

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The only thing I don't like is that the control scheme for the Capcom characters are designed around the SNK design, the Capcom characters just feel wrong when you play as them. What would have been nice to see was the control scheme setup according to character such as Capcom more matching the Street Fighter setup and the SNK matching the Fatal Fury setup.

That doesn't make any sense. With a 4 button control scheme they went with exactly what they could and Capcom even used it in the first Capcom vs SNK. And a Fatal Fury setup would not have matched all the SNK characters, Iori and Kyo would have felt terrible in that style.
 
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