SNES RGB?

skate323k137 said:

Normal SNES's output RGB right out of the box. The mini snes requires a very simple mod.

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city41 said:

RetroRGB has good info too, he really focused on the SNES a lot. Here is his comparison page: http://www.retrorgb.com/snesversioncompare.html

A full size SNES most likely has inferior RGB output compared to a mini according to RetroRGB.

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The newer PPU (S-CPUN-A) found in the 1CHIP and Mini is worse for several reasons.

1. Cheap, Inaccurate, and operates like a clone device - The 1CHIP/Mini are as Byuu says

"more of a clone system. There are "drastic" changes. Not so much stuff that's going to affect most games directly, but stuff that tells you the chip is radically different on the inside. Things like the SMP Timer Glitch vanishing, different behaviors of the TEST register, some DSP subtleties, the PPU being entirely different, and mid-scanline effects are totally different which affects games like A.S.P. Air Strike Patrol where the plane's shadow is almost invisible."

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Not only that, but there are LOTS of graphical glitches in the 1CHIP/Mini (and sound glitches). For example; Graphical Glitches on the top of the screen in games like Aladdin (seen right away in 1st stage) and Mystic Quest (seen immediately on title screen), and other WORSE glitches like the text boxes being out of wack on some games, like Rudra No Hihou or Treasure of the Rudras (while chatting with people in town or small text areas in battles), and some Super FX games running slower than normal.

2. Missing Smoothing (or dithering) Filter - This is 1 of 2 reasons why the newer PPU appears "sharper". But sharper doesn't necessarily mean "better". Nintendo developed added filtering for a reason. Read on (NOTE: my choice of words (ie; filter/smoothing/etc) are probably not accurate. I use these words for two reasons. A.) Because I couldn't think of better words, and B.) Because it helps others to better understand what I'm referring to.)

3. Grossly Overdriven White Levels - This, combined with the missing filter mentioned above results in a what appears to be a cleaner image, but the end result is bloomed whites that hide some details, and jagged edges in tons of graphically complex games like Chrono Trigger, Donkey Kong Country 1-3, Killer Instinct, Super FX Games, Mode 7 Games, other graphically complex games like Super Mario RPG, Secret of Mana 2, Secret of Evermore, Mortal Kombat 3, and I could go on and on. Also, the super-high almost bluish whites make the vertical bar in the S-CPUN-A (1CHIP) more noticeable. Fortunately the model 2 has less noise on its PCB board which lessens the vertical bar, but its still there. The whites are absolutely overkill. And it also results in ghosting in many games. The S-CPUN-A looks like a over-contrasted, edge-enhanced clone (which it is).


Truth is, there is no such thing as "blurry" RGB on the original model SNES's (the 1994-1995 models have the S-RGB encoder, which does not properly amp the RGB and results in jailbars). The old SHVC-CPU-01 board with or without the S-ENC looks exactly the way Nintendo wanted it to look. It has the filtering in its PPU's for a reason. To make the graphics "smoother". Simple as that (even the original Genesis has "slight" filtering on it as well) This filtering is 100% intentional. Nintendo didn't "accidentally" create a bad, or poor PPU on its SNES. They knew exactly what they were doing. They did not want jaggies or pixelated looking games, because the SNES would be outputting far more complex graphics than their NES, and if they didn't smooth them a tiny bit, then many games would look pixelated. Nintendo developed their SNES and tweaked the software for their PPU's to their liking, and the PPU's were fine-tuned and not half-arsed as some may assume. Also keep in mind that ALL developers for the SNES were developing games on professional RGB, high quality CRT monitors so they were not concerned with S-Video, or Composite. In other words, when you play your SNES games on the SHVC-CPU-01 via RGB on a CRT, then you are viewing them EXACTLY the way they were meant to be viewed. They were never meant to be viewed without the filtering, or with ultra white levels. Most (if not all) SNES games were developed on development kits that look and play exactly like the SHVC-CPU-01. So you can rest assured that with the original model, your getting 100% accuracy. (and just for the record, all games on on the SHVC-CPU-01 look VERY crisp, smooth, and NOT BLURRY)

So then why did Nintendo release the 1CHIP revision? The same reason why Sega released their Genesis 2 and 3. To simply cut costs. And boy did Nintendo do that well. Even their revisions known as SNS-CPU-RGB and SNS-CPU-APU are cost cutting, and as a result, low grade compared to the original SHVC-CPU-01. The 2nd best is the SNS-CPU-GPM. The rest are trash in in comparison.

If some people prefer the cheap, half-arsed 1CHIP/Mini, with its graphical glitches, and its pixelated, over-sharpened, ultra-white picture, AND cheaper sound module, then your free to choose them. I just wanted to set the record straight as to which revision is the best (not which revision is personal preference), as there is nothing wrong with the original SHVC-CPU-01. Its the way SNES games are suppose to look and play. For example, when Nintendo was finished with creating their SNES and Super Mario World's graphics, they were in essence saying "This is exactly how we want it to look". And guess what? That's how a purist will want to play it. And a cheap, cost-cutting clone is NOT how I want to play it, even IF Nintendo's name is stamped on it. Its just like when Nintendo originally released the Wii. It had 480p and Component output. AND later on, Nintendo released the cheap, cost-cutting alternative. They took out 480p, and they took out Component video. Now let me ask you, which one is going to display Super Mario Galaxy the way it was intended to be viewed? I hope that makes sense.

I know my post is quite long, but I read through this thread a few times and I just had set the record straight once and for all. I've given the facts for people to decide, not to force them into choosing one or the other. Nevertheless, if there was anyone on the fence about ditching their original model for a newer model, then maybe my post will help them to decide to mod their old SHVC-CPU-01 (or SNS-CPU-GPM-01) for component video and forget about buying the 1CHIP/Mini. They are not worth it.

P.S. Game Genie doesn't work on the 1CHIP/Mini ether. Haha. And for the record, I quoted Drakon's post for reference purposes only, as alot of people are being told by other users that the newer PPU (S-CPUN-A) is better, which it is not, for the reasons listed above.

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skate323k137 said:

Could just be your camera, but the red looks kinda orange-ish in those last couple pics.

This is my normal ass SNES, not 1-chip.

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Skips said:

If you Bypass the internal encoder in the One Chip and build your own amp it will be identical (aside from an almost unnoticeable difference in colors) to the SNES Mini.

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ApolloBoy said:

Huh, that sounds interesting. My brother's SNES is a 1chip model, but it seems to be a little blurry compared to my modded SNES mini so that would explain why it's like that I suppose.

BTW, I got into a rather heated argument on that Racketboy thread and I still can't believe that guy seriously believes that the early models have the best video quality when it's been proven time and time again that the 1chip and mini have a significantly sharper picture and on par with other systems' RGB output.

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ekek2009 said:

The only problem with SHVC I discovered was the sound module went out on mine shortly after getting it. Easy replacement, but I think the original model is more prone to having issues.

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kidpanda said:

I use RF on my Snes, crazy clean picture. :P

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ApolloBoy said:

Huh, that sounds interesting. My brother's SNES is a 1chip model, but it seems to be a little blurry compared to my modded SNES mini so that would explain why it's like that I suppose.

BTW, I got into a rather heated argument on that Racketboy thread and I still can't believe that guy seriously believes that the early models have the best video quality when it's been proven time and time again that the 1chip and mini have a significantly sharper picture and on par with other systems' RGB output.

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kidpanda said:

I use RF on my Snes, crazy clean picture. :P

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ApolloBoy said:

I think they might be starting to suffer from bad caps as well, I discovered a couple of leaky caps on my SFC (which has the SHVC-CPU-01 board) and wound up recapping the entire system as a preventative measure.

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Joneo said:

IMO modded SNES mini is the king.

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psychobear85 said:

Wouldn't this cable work to output RGB via scart

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=200948949594&cmd=VIDESC

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MCF 76 said:

do they yellow like the original SNES?

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MCF 76 said:

Can any of you guys do the mod to a mini if I can find one? Damn hard to find one these days, do they yellow like the original SNES?, minor problem but anyway...

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ekek2009 said:

Sparked my creativity!

View attachment 6225

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