CRT Fetish Thread

What I like most about the BVM is how many inputs it has, and how many customization options there are for geometry etc. Not sure If the heavy scanlined look is something I like though as it doesn't resemble what I remember my old crt to be like.

jedfactor said:

What I like most about the BVM is how many inputs it has, and how many customization options there are for geometry etc. Not sure If the heavy scanlined look is something I like though as it doesn't resemble what I remember my old crt to be like.

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I can sorta understand purists being turned off by the "too perfect" look. But to me, I love the ultra sharp, hardcore scanlines, bright contrast intense images that pro CRT's deliver. I can barely stand using my 20l2 after using a 20l5 lol.

Nyd

jedfactor said:

I agree with this, having a bvm, the picture is very different to what I remember my old sony trinitron was like. The BVM looks is cool in its own way, but it is quite different to what i remember my old trinitron was like. Maybe living in the UK scanlines weren't as apparent because of the old horizontal black borders which increased the resolution some what.

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Its like you say - both images are cool in their own way. For me the main thing is to have RGB - whether the image is displayed on a consumer Trinitron or a BVM with a HR tube is a secondary concern, since truth be told both really look great.
As for the PAL 50hz I also have vivid memories of this atrocity and there is no way I want to revisit these - all my consoles are either NTSC or PAL units modded for 60hz. For me what is really mind boggling is how little regard the major console manufactures had for European gamers. On many systems such as e.g. Sega Mega Drive enabling 60hz is just a question of fitting a simple switch and using a scart lead, yet they decided to deprive us of this and give us these half baked systems with large black borders and slow gameplay. Quite surprising that nobody bothered to do this, since it could be used as a kind of marketing / competitive advantage angle to get ahead of the competition - call it 'arcade mode' and talk about the possibility of arcade style full screen picture and faster gameplay with a scart TV and scart lead being the only prerequisites. But I guess nobody bothered because they knew they did not have to since we would buy their systems anyhow

I think the reason why SCART and RGB was not a big deal back in the day was it was mainly kids who played these machines. I know I was a kid in the 8 & 16 bit generation. I had a crap 14" Orion TV with RF and Composite and I used RF. Even our TV downstairs was RF only until I was about 12 then we got a Phillips TV with 1 Scart socket and Nicam Stereo! I remember listening to Nicam for the first time and I was like Whoa! hahahaha.

I'm 33 now and have 3 broadcast monitors and a Trinitron TV and all my consoles are RGB. I guess experiencing the days of poor picture quality has made me appreciate the picture quality now. I can say though that regardless of the crap 50hz picture we had to put up with I'm glad I got to grow up and experience gaming in the late 80's and through the 90's. Those were special times.

jedfactor said:

What I like most about the BVM is how many inputs it has, and how many customization options there are for geometry etc. Not sure If the heavy scanlined look is something I like though as it doesn't resemble what I remember my old crt to be like.

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You'll get used to it, and you'll like it. Trust me.

PunkicCyborg said:

You want to look for the APM-X5A speakers for that monitor with the foldout bracket. They attach on the side and are totally sweet. Just like these but hopefully you can get them cheaper http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-APM-X5...o_Audio_Speakers_Monitors&hash=item3f3b2bae62
They are worth finding though, the sound quality is surprisingly awesome and they are shielded so you dont have to worry about the magnets distorting the crt

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Yup. I know those.

I'll keep an eye out for a cheaper set.

I think the "heavy scanline" look of the 800+ HZL monitors look stunning when viewed at normal playing distance. People get all philosophic about it with these ultra close up scanline pron shots. If I wanted to recreate what I was playing back in the 80s/90s I'd be playing on my old wood grain Curtis Mathes using RF... And that aint happening.

Note: I am addicted to ultra closeup scanline pron shots

800 TV lines means vertical lines. with 240p you have 240 horizontal lines. I don't think HZL is a real spec, is it?

I've explained this before, but the TVL spec (TV Lines) just defines how many alternating white/black vertical lines the CRT can display in a given space equal to the height of the monitor. It's technically a measurement of how high the horizontal resolution could be, or how precisely vertical lines could be drawn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_lines

p.s. I love scanlines.

Your correct Skate. I just looked it up it's vertical lines. Found this brief explanation on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_lines

I was under the impression that this was one of the major resons the PVMs / BVMs are so sharp.

In short, It looks way fucking better than what I grew up with. And to try and replicate what I had back then would be dumb.

Oh yeah. 600 or 800 TVL CRT's like PVMs are always going to be better than consumer grade tubes. I just was clarifying some terminology

And yes... replicating what we played on as kids would be quite the waste of time.

Can you make any sense of the "Kell Factor" that may be some interestingly useless knowledge pertinent to this discussion. We will probably need a team of electrical engineers to explain that one...

Bancho said:

I think the reason why SCART and RGB was not a big deal back in the day was it was mainly kids who played these machines. I know I was a kid in the 8 & 16 bit generation. I had a crap 14" Orion TV with RF and Composite and I used RF. Even our TV downstairs was RF only until I was about 12 then we got a Phillips TV with 1 Scart socket and Nicam Stereo! I remember listening to Nicam for the first time and I was like Whoa! hahahaha.

I'm 33 now and have 3 broadcast monitors and a Trinitron TV and all my consoles are RGB. I guess experiencing the days of poor picture quality has made me appreciate the picture quality now. I can say though that regardless of the crap 50hz picture we had to put up with I'm glad I got to grow up and experience gaming in the late 80's and through the 90's. Those were special times.

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I can also relate that back in the days i.e. late 80s / early 90s the RF leads ruled. Probably because thats what the systems came packeged with and the fact that as kids we were more interested in getting new games then getting a PhD in AV cable hook up technology. The other point is of course the TV's - Scart was becoming more and more widespread, but there was still a lot of old crap TV's standing around the living rooms of the EU offering only RF support.
In the early 90s, Scart connector on all new TV's was becoming the de facto standard and at least from what I recall in the UK with the advent of the SNES, grey importing etc. things did start to take off and the magaznines (e.g. Super Play) would have articles focusing on the differences between PAL and NTSC systems, what you needed to have to play the latter, the benefits of using a Scart lead etc. so the information was starting to get out there. Even so, the offical RGB leads were not that easy to get and the whole scart thing could be confusing for those with only a passing interest in the subject e.g. the most common type of 'scart lead' being sold for the SNES was actually a composite lead with a scart plug adapter, with not many people being any the wiser that they actually just have composite over scart and not RGB.
But yeah, late 80s / early 90s were special - movies, music, games everything was better. 50hz did suck hard (borders on games such as SF2 were just massive) but I guess due to the lack of a easily available comparison you kind of didn't notice nor think about it too much.

MtothaJ said:

I can also relate that back in the days i.e. late 80s / early 90s the RF leads ruled. Probably because thats what the systems came packeged with and the fact that as kids we were more interested in getting new games then getting a PhD in AV cable hook up technology. The other point is of course the TV's - Scart was becoming more and more widespread, but there was still a lot of old crap TV's standing around the living rooms of the EU offering only RF support.
In the early 90s, Scart connector on all new TV's was becoming the de facto standard and at least from what I recall in the UK with the advent of the SNES, grey importing etc. things did start to take off and the magaznines (e.g. Super Play) would have articles focusing on the differences between PAL and NTSC systems, what you needed to have to play the latter, the benefits of using a Scart lead etc. so the information was starting to get out there. Even so, the offical RGB leads were not that easy to get and the whole scart thing could be confusing for those with only a passing interest in the subject e.g. the most common type of 'scart lead' being sold for the SNES was actually a composite lead with a scart plug adapter, with not many people being any the wiser that they actually just have composite over scart and not RGB.
But yeah, late 80s / early 90s were special - movies, music, games everything was better. 50hz did suck hard (borders on games such as SF2 were just massive) but I guess due to the lack of a easily available comparison you kind of didn't notice nor think about it too much.

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The RF connection (most people didn't use composite in those days) and the 50hz were two of the big reasons why games didn't seem like the same experience as in the arcade (for the same game). And that was on top of the fact that arcade games like Street Fighter had cut-down graphics and sprites from the arcade. And the magazines didn't go out of their way to educate people on the different video standards, and PAL 50Hz vs NTSC 60Hz. Most TVs in Australia at that time only had RF inputs. You would have to get a newer model CRT (i.e., mid to late 90s) to even get composite.

joe8 said:

The RF connection (most people didn't use composite in those days) and the 50hz were two of the big reasons why games didn't seem like the same experience as in the arcade (for the same game). And that was on top of the fact that arcade games like Street Fighter had cut-down graphics and sprites from the arcade. Most TVs in Australia at that time only had RF inputs. You would have to get a newer model CRT (i.e., mid to late 90s) to even get composite.

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Please STFU. Late 80s into early 90s, arcade hardware was superior, period. It wasn't due to ppl mostly using RF at home and composite was more common than you fucking allegedly believe. Late 80s to even mid 90s dedicated Hardware destroyed consoles. Arcades were a testing ground for new tech then.

joe8 said:

Most TVs in Australia at that time only had RF inputs. You would have to get a newer model CRT (i.e., mid to late 90s) to even get composite.

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I highly doubt this. Most ppl didn't replace a TV those days unless it was dead, unless you had money to burn and why TV repair was still common as it was cheaper in many cases that replacing it. Newer CRT models with composite were around in the late 80s, globally in retail. UK already had SCART retail. Fuck even older Pioneer LaserDisc players 1989/1990 had F-connector, Scart and/or Composite.

Skips said:

View attachment 18608

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Oh. My. God.

LULZ!

joe8 said:

And the magazines didn't go out of their way to educate people on the different video standards, and PAL 50Hz vs NTSC 60Hz. Most TVs in Australia at that time only had RF inputs. You would have to get a newer model CRT (i.e., mid to late 90s) to even get composite.

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1: See magazine below.




2: Skip to the 23 second mark on the video below.

The big ass wooden console TV I had when I was a kid had composite video. It's how we had the NES hooked up. That was in 87...though the remote was tethered to the TV.

Retro gaming is about using RGB (or component, if it has to be that), preferably on professional monitors like the PVM or BVM. That way you get picture quality that comes close to an arcade cab. Composite and s-video should only be for comparison, or for testing that a PVM works (after you've bought it), or if you can't afford some decent component or RGB cables.
Saying that composite is more reliable than s-video, that isn't necessarily saying it's better overall. If s-video works on your system, you should use it, until you get something better. I think you guys are criticizing what I say, without carefully reading what I've actually said.

Seconded. Fuck, Joe8 posts are worse than brain cancer.

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You're calling me a retard, and you can't even get my name right. It's joe8, with the j being lower case.

Yeah its called capacitors go bad numb nuts, its just as likely for it to happen to the composite circuit too. It has nothing to do with s-video. So yes, you are making shit up. It just so happens your lack on knowledge on how this shit works prevents you from seeing this. Holy shit dude, just stop fucking arguing with people. Like OMFG said, you are out of your god damned league.

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So what are you saying, that the s-video won't fail unless the composite does too (i.e., the capacitors fail, then both composite and s-video will fail)? Or, if the s-video has failed, then perhaps the composite should have failed by now, as well, if both video types have their own capacitor (both being the same type of capacitor)? None of the devices I have, have ever had the composite video fail to work. You guys do these posts, and I can't even follow what you're trying to say, your posts don't always follow a logical path, to a logical conclusion.

So how do I fix it- replace the capacitors? All I'm saying is that my s-video does not work (only has a black and white picture, at best, when the composite cable is also connected) on my DVD player (but it used to work), and the composite does work. The component video on the DVD player works, but not in progressive scan mode, as it used to do. It's only a cheap low-quality DVD player. Or it could a problem with the s-video cable I'm using, but I would think that would be less likely. If you guys are such experts, can you suggest some ways it could be fixed?

I ordered some RCA female to BNC male adapters to kinda hold me over till I can gather more stuff for my RGB setup. Having my NES hooked up to my LCD tv doesn't feel right and it looks awful.

joe8 said:

Retro gaming is about using RGB (or component, if it has to be that), preferably on professional monitors like the PVM or BVM. That way you get picture quality that comes close to an arcade cab. Composite and s-video should only be for comparison, or for testing that a PVM works (after you've bought it), or if you can't afford some decent component or RGB cables.
Saying that composite is more reliable than s-video, that isn't necessarily saying it's better overall. If s-video works on your system, you should use it, until you get something better. I think you guys are criticizing what I say, without carefully reading what I've actually said.


So what are you saying, that the s-video won't fail unless the composite does too (i.e., the capacitors fail, then both composite and s-video will fail)? You guys do these posts, and I can't even follow what you're trying to say, you posts don't always follow a logical path, to a logical conclusion.

So how do I fix it- replace the capacitors? All I'm saying is that my s-video does not work (only has a black and white picture, at best) on my DVD player (but it used to work), and the composite does work. If you guys are such experts, can't you suggest some ways it could be fixed?

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Dude you are dumber than a bag of fucking hammers you know that right? Your posts (including this one) are complete and utter horse shit.

Retro gaming is about using RGB? Bullshit, RGB is for videophiles who lust after a perfect (or near perfect) picture and are willing to drop the coin/effort on it. Retro gaming is about playing the oldschool games you knew and loved as a kid and or preserving them for future generations, it has NOTHING to do with what video signal you choose to do it on.

And no I did not say that, you just have no clue how most game consoles generate their video signals. What I said (and everyone that read it except for you got it) is that it has JUST AS MUCH of a chance to fail as S-Video, it uses the same fucking components/ic's in most cases. Composite IS NOT more reliable than s-video just because you had a couple devices fail (which you probably broke trying to retard the s-video connector in the wrong way). If you want to fix it open the damn device and find whats wrong with it by checking capacitors, solder joints, and other components for damage. I will not condone this though because knowing you you might burn your testicles off with the soldering iron and I don't want to be held responsible for telling you to try it.

Our posts don't follow a logical path to you because you have no idea wtf is going on or even what you are talking about 99.9% of the time. Its like a small child walking up to the grown up table at dinner time and trying to jump into a conversation about politics. You pull shit out of thin air and make it up as you go, make absurd comments (like the RGB comment you just made) and tout them like they are fact.

P.S. If color on s-video is not working check the chroma line on the s-video circuit (s-video is chroma and luma separated onto two different lines/pins).

P.S.S Only you are dumb enough to get asshurt because someone capitalized your name. Guess what Joe,

BLOWN THE FUCK OUT.

Retro gaming is about using RGB? Bullshit, RGB is for videophiles who lust after a perfect (or near perfect) picture and are willing to drop the coin/effort on it. Retro gaming is about playing the oldschool games you knew and loved as a kid and or preserving them for future generations, it has NOTHING to do with what video signal you choose to do it on.

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Okay then, for me it's about RGB. Playing them on better hardware than I used to have. And I think other people should use RGB if they can, but it's up to them if they want to use composite instead.

And no I did not say that, you just have no clue how most game consoles generate their video signals. What I said (and everyone that read it except for you got it) is that it has JUST AS MUCH of a chance to fail as S-Video, it uses the same fucking components/ic's in most cases. Composite IS NOT more reliable than s-video just because you had a couple devices fail (which you probably broke trying to retard the s-video connector in the wrong way). If you want to fix it open the damn device and find whats wrong with it by checking capacitors, solder joints, and other components for damage. I will not condone this though because knowing you you might burn your testicles off with the soldering iron and I don't want to be held responsible for telling you to try it.

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You might say composite has just as much of chance to fail as s-video, but that's not my experience. I'm only going only my real-world experience with it, which is that the composite has never failed on any of the things I've had. I've bent pins, but not actually broken them. I tend to use my own experience as my guide for anything technical, and not so much going on what other people say.

joe8 said:

You might say composite has just as much of chance to fail as s-video, but that's not my experience. I'm only going only my real-world experience with it, which is that the composite has never failed on any of the things I've had. I've bent pins, but not actually broken them. I tend to use my own experience as my guide for anything technical, and not so much going on what other people say.

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This thread is about CRTs, mixed with purists and experiences, which many are looking for Technical Experience. The issue the majority of us have with you is simple:

You have shown Zero Technical Experience in this thread and spew out nonsense trying to prove something you aren't.