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Thread: CRT Fetish Thread

  1. #7376
    Hollywood Hulk Gohan GohanX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    So are the earlier black ones less likely to have cap issues? Any particular model I should look for?
    Maybe, but the life expectancy of capacitors are only about 20 years anyway, and most of the black ones I've seen in person have so many hours on them that they are blurry as hell.
    Whatcha gonna do?

  2. #7377
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    So, I picked up its monitor thinking it was RGBi due to the use of a EIAJ 8 "VTR" connector for the RGB input. It didn't help that I couldn't find any info about it on the net. But, it turns out after doing a little trace following and some IC pinout look up that it was a 15khz RGBHV monitor. I will include a picture of the monitor's pinout. I tested it with a Neo-Geo CD into a gscartsw v3.4 using the VGA port. The monitor would sync to HV, C-Sync, and Composite Video. If you want to make yout own cable the part # for the (EIAJ 8 "VTR") male connector is MN08M and it's for sale at http://iec.netDSCN33922.jpg
    CT1300d RGB Pinout.png
    DSCN33862.jpgDSCN33882.jpgDSCN33902.jpg

  3. #7378
    Galford's Armourer
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    I found a guy locally with a KV-27FS100 that appears to be in really nice shape, so I'm picking it up today for $20. Any known issues with this model? Also, how do you enter the service menu on it? I assume I'm going to need to do some adjusting.

    I'm a little hesitant because I'm picking it up without being able to test it myself, but he said it had no geometry or color issues and he kept it in really good shape. We'll see...

  4. #7379
    Hollywood Hulk Gohan GohanX's Avatar
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    Just the usual geometry issues I mentioned earlier that's typical of flat Sony CRTs and/or needed caps. That's the exact same set that I have, it's really nice. Google can tell you how to get into the service menu, I don't remember off hand. Yodd made a thread on here a few years back that was really detailed. Also if it doesn't have a remote it's no biggie, you can buy new remotes on ebay for like $15 or I can send you my old one.

    In the regular menu there is a setting called "cleanedge VM" or something like that. It's on by default, turn it OFF. It's artificial sharpening and it's horrid for videogames. Leave it off and adjust sharpness with the regular setting.
    Last edited by GohanX; 05-24-2019 at 08:22 AM.
    Whatcha gonna do?

  5. #7380
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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    In the regular menu there is a setting called "cleanedge VM" or something like that. It's on by default, turn it OFF. It's artificial sharpening and it's horrid for videogames. Leave it off and adjust sharpness with the regular setting.
    Thanks for that. This is the kind of stuff I would never know to look for. I've heard that some of these have some issue with the red (Red Push maybe?), is that a common thing you have to fix in the service menu?

  6. #7381
    Hollywood Hulk Gohan GohanX's Avatar
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    I didn't have to on my Sony set but the setting is in there I think. I remember when I had the old Samsung I had to turn red down quite a bit. My only issue really was that the screen image was tilted (you can change this in the regular menu) and the regular geometry issues. Color is fantastic. I adjusted the geometry the best I could and it's pretty decent but if you play a letterboxed movie you can see that there's some bowing, and that's the caps that need to be replaced and you can't make adjustments to compensate enough.
    Whatcha gonna do?

  7. #7382
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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    I didn't have to on my Sony set but the setting is in there I think. I remember when I had the old Samsung I had to turn red down quite a bit. My only issue really was that the screen image was tilted (you can change this in the regular menu) and the regular geometry issues. Color is fantastic. I adjusted the geometry the best I could and it's pretty decent but if you play a letterboxed movie you can see that there's some bowing, and that's the caps that need to be replaced and you can't make adjustments to compensate enough.
    Yeah I'm resigned to the fact that there's going to be some geometry issues that can't be fixed, but if I can get it to a decent looking state I'll be happy. I was warned about 'chasing dragons' when it came to finding the mythical perfect geometry and I've come to realize they were right. Unless you can open the set up, replace the caps and adjust the magnets/yoke, you're never going to get that.

  8. #7383
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    The idea that geometry distortions are ironed out by replacing electrolytic capacitors here and there is as untrue as it is popular in retrogaming communities (that consist largely of people that don't understand much about CRT operation). If anything the caps that in some cases may be held responsible for certain types of distortions (e.g. horizontal linearity) are the film caps in the line output stage. Most other issues that can't be solved by specific geometry adjustments have to do with the deflection yoke (e.g. vertical center).

    https://elektrotanya.com/sony_crt-01.../download.html

  9. #7384
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKL View Post
    The idea that geometry distortions are ironed out by replacing electrolytic capacitors here and there is as untrue as it is popular in retrogaming communities (that consist largely of people that don't understand much about CRT operation). If anything the caps that in some cases may be held responsible for certain types of distortions (e.g. horizontal linearity) are the film caps in the line output stage. Most other issues that can't be solved by specific geometry adjustments have to do with the deflection yoke (e.g. vertical center).

    https://elektrotanya.com/sony_crt-01.../download.html
    I always wondered how hard it is to adjust the deflection yoke. I know you don't want to mess with the purity rings unless you know exactly what you're doing, but how hard is it to adjust other things on the yoke?

    Also, if I'm using an external speaker system, is there any reason not to use the built in speakers as well? Is it better to disable them?
    Last edited by Tempest; 05-24-2019 at 10:35 AM.

  10. #7385
    Dogg-Father
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    Quote Originally Posted by GohanX View Post
    . Yodd made a thread on here a few years back that was really detailed.
    http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showth...gs-suggestions
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  11. #7386
    Hollywood Hulk Gohan GohanX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKL View Post
    The idea that geometry distortions are ironed out by replacing electrolytic capacitors here and there is as untrue as it is popular in retrogaming communities (that consist largely of people that don't understand much about CRT operation). If anything the caps that in some cases may be held responsible for certain types of distortions (e.g. horizontal linearity) are the film caps in the line output stage. Most other issues that can't be solved by specific geometry adjustments have to do with the deflection yoke (e.g. vertical center).

    https://elektrotanya.com/sony_crt-01.../download.html

    When I went searching for my own TV's issues I always heard it was caps, but you likely know way more about these things than they do. It still falls under the "I'm not messing with that" category though.
    Whatcha gonna do?

  12. #7387
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    Got the TV today. Pictures! The geometry is actually really good, just needed to make a few adjustments...

    I've already increased the V/H size so there's some overscan off screen. The first picture is more so you can see the dreaded horizontal bowing.

    My only concern is that in the second picture you can see the Green/White/Blue text next to the color bars (240p test suite SNES) is messed up. At first I thought this might be a defect in the TV, but now I'm not sure. All the games seem to look normal. Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? Maybe something is wrong with my SNES?

    What are everyone's recommendations on brightness/sharpness/picture settings? Right now they're all at 50% as I reset them to normal (they were on Vivid when I turned it on and everything was blurry).





  13. #7388
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    It is well known these kv-27fs100 need the yoke adjusted to fix bottom and top bowing, usually upwards. Pretty common that these sag and get loose as almost all of them have this problem. some have it real bad.

    If you look on reddit you can see people who have fixed it.

    MKL I tried that white balance adjustment for the jvc d series 201 according to that service manual. It doesn't really work for that model. I still get color bleed on red highs even if I turn down r gain to -25.



    1.)Another phenomenon I hate seeing is some tvs i've picked up has what I call the jitters. At 240p it has this weird ~ interference and isn't rock steady no matter the source. Depending on how bad it is unnoticeable to real bad. Generic answer I've read is deflection recap.


    2.)MKL what causes this issue below? I've seen people have success recapping the deflection area like Dochartaigh mentioned. Contrast makes it worse but I've seen ones where it doesn't even matter.

    Last edited by ChuChu Flamingo; 05-24-2019 at 07:34 PM.


    he spends hundreds on scarves, of course he's a fag and then ChuChu Flamingo preserved the aftermath in a plastic case making sure it wasn't exposed to unstable air
    You're just upset that you're too goddam stupid to understand the games and whiff infinites.
    Nintendo 64 Pikachu Edition Serial #NS294668665 Nintendo 64 "Funtastic Series" Jungle Green Serial #NS28721865

  14. #7389
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChuChu Flamingo View Post
    2.)MKL what causes this issue below? I've seen people have success recapping the deflection area like Dochartaigh mentioned. Contrast makes it worse but I've seen ones where it doesn't even matter.

    That issue is briefly mentioned here (column 2, lines 1-11):

    https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US4935675.pdf

    The document is reviewing an obsolete design that was used in TVs older than 1980 (the only arcade monitor I know of with such a circuit is the Hantarex MTC90) but the point remains that an unstable current in the horizontal yoke is what causes this issue. In a more modern horizontal output design it can be caused primarily by two things: 1) an incorrect or unstable b+. Typically there are two decoupling caps for this voltage, one after the rectifying diode near the PSU output and the other close to the primary side of the flyback transformer. If these electrolytic caps go bad they will affect the b+ a great deal. But the B+ must also be set at the correct level so it needs to be measured and adjusted if necessary. Further issues in the PSU need to be tackled if the b+ is still not good. 2) The retrace (or resonant) and S-shaping capacitors where the yoke current is stored during the blanking and scanning periods. It makes much more sense to replace these than lots of electrolytics in totally unrelated areas even if they test good out of circuit as you don't know how they will work with peak voltages of 800-1200V after decades of use. These are the 3-4 big blue or red polypropylene caps easy to spot near the flyback and the HOT.

  15. #7390
    Amakusa's Fashion Consultant
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShiroHagen View Post
    I have a pvm 2950 qm and I could not get it to sync without a sync strike. I ended up buying the strike and a vga to 5bnc cable to use with it. I remember having to play via component before said leads arrived. Good but nowhere near as good as the Rgb goodness it deserves
    I know this is an old post but I know people here have the 2950. Do you need the sync strike for the 2950Q as well? What did people here end up buying?

  16. #7391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timorous Scott View Post
    I know this is an old post but I know people here have the 2950. Do you need the sync strike for the 2950Q as well? What did people here end up buying?
    replying to myself in case someone in the future needs it, didn't need a sync strike for a sega mega drive at least

  17. #7392
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    Replaced all the Electrolytic capacitors on a Commodore 1702 a few days ago.I think in total it was around 37 capacitors. Only pulled one tiny pad corner off (1/4) on one leg cause my desolder gun got stuck. Pulled out my multimeter and checked continuity to the traces/pins of the ic to make sure everything was connected and it was luckily.

    Only capacitors I didn't replace were C905 on the power board (which would require removing the power board from the metal cage) and C536 on the neckboard (has glue on it with a factory resistor). I'll replace them later. Nothing much was wrong with this monitor before cap kit but decided to do it since it is 36 years old.




    What do the neckboard capacitors do anyhow? Just curious what symptoms high esr/out of spec capacitors do on these neckboards.

    I've read online but can't confirm first hand that replacing them on other crts have fixed color problems (like in Nanao MS9 colors being dull, pretty funny Kernow thread on arcadeotaku about it) or focus.

    On a side note I want to destroy whoever thought it was a good idea to bend the solder legs all the way down and solder it. It makes removal so damn annoying.
    Last edited by ChuChu Flamingo; 06-30-2019 at 11:51 PM.


    he spends hundreds on scarves, of course he's a fag and then ChuChu Flamingo preserved the aftermath in a plastic case making sure it wasn't exposed to unstable air
    You're just upset that you're too goddam stupid to understand the games and whiff infinites.
    Nintendo 64 Pikachu Edition Serial #NS294668665 Nintendo 64 "Funtastic Series" Jungle Green Serial #NS28721865

  18. #7393
    Dodgeball Yakuza
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    Anyone familiar with Hitachi CT-2160 PVM monitors? I googled the model, but nothing. Maybe these where licensed by Sony? I came across a few, but the sound on them are going in and out. I'm guessing a cap kit?. Also these did not come with the individual RGB BNC connectors. I'd like to know if I can add it.

  19. #7394
    Mega Shock!!

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    I'm now the proud owner of a Sony BVM-20F1E - my grail CRT monitor. This supplements a Sony PVM-14L2MD which is atop an Olympus medical endoscopy trolley (minus the endoscope!). Nothing like wheeling around some emergency classic gaming :-)

    They really do display a superb picture. I got some CSYNC RGB cables from retrogamingcables.co.uk to do them justice.

  20. #7395
    Dogg-Father
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    Found this little B&W 9" monitor hidden at work from the old CCT system...has a bit of burn in but still works...

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  21. #7396

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    I finished RGB modding my Toshiba 32A33 and I made a video. Special thanks to Bratwurst from the forum for all the help!


  22. #7397
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    good video Alec. Pretty straight forward, cited your sources, and you didn't sound like a pompous know it all.

  23. #7398

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cousin_Itt View Post
    good video Alec. Pretty straight forward, cited your sources, and you didn't sound like a pompous know it all.
    Dammit. There's always next time.

  24. #7399
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    Great video, thanks for sharing...and yes, your voice is relaxing and very divulgative.

    One thing, I may be wrong, you say often component referred to the TV native input, but I guess you mean composite?

    Also, I also have a moved to the left picture (always had with all TVs in Europe) woudl you mind sharing your thoughts about fixing it, far from using the service menu? (my 10" TV her ein the US has not such thing..I believe...it's a Sony, the usual codes do not work)
    Last edited by massimiliano; 08-19-2019 at 10:20 PM.
    凄いゲームを連れて。。。売った。

  25. #7400

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    Quote Originally Posted by massimiliano View Post
    Great video, thanks for sharing...and yes, your voice is relaxing and very divulgative.

    One thing, I may be wrong, you say often component referred to the TV native input, but I guess you mean composite?

    Also, I also have a moved to the left picture (always had with all TVs in Europe) woudl you mind sharing your thoughts about fixing it, far from using the service menu? (my 10" TV her ein the US has not such thing..I believe...it's a Sony, the usual codes do not work)
    Thanks for your compliments. The TV supports composite, S-video and component (YPbPr) without modification.

    Bratwurst was planning to try a couple of things to correct the horizontal position when he has time. I was going to let a professional mess with the yoke and start sticking pots on the jungle before I attempt it. Voultar has some good info on the subject here:
    https://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=56155

    You can often drive and manipulate the H-Phase by a pin on the Jungle I/C. Allowing you far more control than what the service menu provides.

    Image

    When I add RGB to a consumer set, I look for a pin on the Jungle I/C that can totally control the H-Phase, It's typically driven by a low voltage current.

    It's better to do it this way, because you can use the 5V rail coming from a console to drive this pin. Take a 10K trim pot (will give enough play) with 5V and output it to the pin, sweep it across until you get it lined up nicely.

    Now, when a console is powered, the 5v will dialed in with the 10K trim pot so that the the horizontal position will automatically be calibrated for RGB.

    (This is providing that your RGB cables have a 5v output)

    You can also use a switch, of course. A 6PDT is enough to switch your OSD and RGB lines, as well as 5v from the TV to control this.


    Just look at the datasheet for your Jungle I/C.
    Last edited by Neo Alec; 08-19-2019 at 11:20 PM.

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