CRT Fetish Thread

Tempest

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I'm slowly realizing that this TV is just crap and there's no reason to keep trying to fix it. However there's a Sony Trinitron KV-27FS13 available locally. Is this a good model?
 

Neodogg

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Tempest

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Neodogg

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does seem a little high, I think I paid $30 but that was like a year ago. I really haven't had to get into the service menu to adjust things. I did verify that I could and as with Todd's thread there are a plethora of options.
 

Tempest

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One nice thing is that it does come with the remote which I've noticed a lot of them do not. Still, I haven't been looking for long and I'm sure more will pop up if they won't budge on the price.
 

GohanX

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They want $65, but people have told me that's a bit high. I'm going to see if they'll come down to $40 or so. If not, I may go for it anyway.

Any known issues with this model? Anything that can't be corrected easily with the service menu?
There's a good chance it needs caps that will cause geometry problems that can't be corrected in the service menu. Lolifox and I both have this issue with ours, but I just deal with it since I'm not recapping it and nobody local does CRT repair.
 

ChuChu Flamingo

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I wouldn't be paying that much or at all for those tvs. You can find them for free 99% of the time.

Think of it this way it cost money to recycle these things, usually $25-$35. Additionally you don't really know the condition of the tv.

I wouldn't pay more than $10-$20 unless it is a specific rare model or you live in a crt apocalypse.
 
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Tempest

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There's a good chance it needs caps that will cause geometry problems that can't be corrected in the service menu. Lolifox and I both have this issue with ours, but I just deal with it since I'm not recapping it and nobody local does CRT repair.

Is that common with Sony Trinitrons or just this model?
 

GohanX

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It's pretty common on the later ones that were mostly silver. Twenty years in a hot plastic box isn't great on caps.
 

Tempest

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So are the earlier black ones less likely to have cap issues? Any particular model I should look for?
 

Dochartaigh

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So are the earlier black ones less likely to have cap issues? Any particular model I should look for?

The argument about the older black Trinitrons, and the newer silver ones, pretty much comes down to how the old ones have a curved screen (which many people prefer, and I don't know why - I highly prefer flat) and only composite and/or S-Video inputs; the silver ones can have flat screens and composite/S-Video AND Component (which is pretty much equal to RGB, and you can pickup a Shinybow SB-2840 RGB to Component converter and play all your RGB systems with great clarity).

For caps, all of this stuff is old and could very well need a recapping - even sets from 2005ish can still be a little bit off. Oh, people say the older curved ones also have better geometry...which is kinda a moot point to me because of the curved screen messes with the image whenever I see it (probably just because I'm used to flat screens).
 

Tempest

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The argument about the older black Trinitrons, and the newer silver ones, pretty much comes down to how the old ones have a curved screen (which many people prefer, and I don't know why - I highly prefer flat) and only composite and/or S-Video inputs; the silver ones can have flat screens and composite/S-Video AND Component (which is pretty much equal to RGB, and you can pickup a Shinybow SB-2840 RGB to Component converter and play all your RGB systems with great clarity).

I use a Shinybow so I need component. I guess I need to stick to the newer silver ones then.
 

Pinball

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I recently bought a Sony BVM-20F1E/U 20" Broadcast Video Monitor (PAL & NTSC), which has been recapped and recalibrated. So happy with this, as it's supposed to be the Rolls-Royce of CRT monitors :-) But.. I have to say an OSSC produces a stunning result on new TVs and 4K video projectors.
 

GohanX

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So are the earlier black ones less likely to have cap issues? Any particular model I should look for?
Maybe, but the life expectancy of capacitors are only about 20 years anyway, and most of the black ones I've seen in person have so many hours on them that they are blurry as hell.
 
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So, I picked up its monitor thinking it was RGBi due to the use of a EIAJ 8 "VTR" connector for the RGB input. It didn't help that I couldn't find any info about it on the net. But, it turns out after doing a little trace following and some IC pinout look up that it was a 15khz RGBHV monitor. I will include a picture of the monitor's pinout. I tested it with a Neo-Geo CD into a gscartsw v3.4 using the VGA port. The monitor would sync to HV, C-Sync, and Composite Video. If you want to make yout own cable the part # for the (EIAJ 8 "VTR") male connector is MN08M and it's for sale at http://iec.netDSCN33922.jpg
CT1300d RGB Pinout.png
DSCN33862.jpgDSCN33882.jpgDSCN33902.jpg
 

Tempest

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I found a guy locally with a KV-27FS100 that appears to be in really nice shape, so I'm picking it up today for $20. Any known issues with this model? Also, how do you enter the service menu on it? I assume I'm going to need to do some adjusting.

I'm a little hesitant because I'm picking it up without being able to test it myself, but he said it had no geometry or color issues and he kept it in really good shape. We'll see...
 

GohanX

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Just the usual geometry issues I mentioned earlier that's typical of flat Sony CRTs and/or needed caps. That's the exact same set that I have, it's really nice. Google can tell you how to get into the service menu, I don't remember off hand. Yodd made a thread on here a few years back that was really detailed. Also if it doesn't have a remote it's no biggie, you can buy new remotes on ebay for like $15 or I can send you my old one.

In the regular menu there is a setting called "cleanedge VM" or something like that. It's on by default, turn it OFF. It's artificial sharpening and it's horrid for videogames. Leave it off and adjust sharpness with the regular setting.
 
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Tempest

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In the regular menu there is a setting called "cleanedge VM" or something like that. It's on by default, turn it OFF. It's artificial sharpening and it's horrid for videogames. Leave it off and adjust sharpness with the regular setting.

Thanks for that. This is the kind of stuff I would never know to look for. I've heard that some of these have some issue with the red (Red Push maybe?), is that a common thing you have to fix in the service menu?
 

GohanX

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I didn't have to on my Sony set but the setting is in there I think. I remember when I had the old Samsung I had to turn red down quite a bit. My only issue really was that the screen image was tilted (you can change this in the regular menu) and the regular geometry issues. Color is fantastic. I adjusted the geometry the best I could and it's pretty decent but if you play a letterboxed movie you can see that there's some bowing, and that's the caps that need to be replaced and you can't make adjustments to compensate enough.
 

Tempest

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I didn't have to on my Sony set but the setting is in there I think. I remember when I had the old Samsung I had to turn red down quite a bit. My only issue really was that the screen image was tilted (you can change this in the regular menu) and the regular geometry issues. Color is fantastic. I adjusted the geometry the best I could and it's pretty decent but if you play a letterboxed movie you can see that there's some bowing, and that's the caps that need to be replaced and you can't make adjustments to compensate enough.

Yeah I'm resigned to the fact that there's going to be some geometry issues that can't be fixed, but if I can get it to a decent looking state I'll be happy. I was warned about 'chasing dragons' when it came to finding the mythical perfect geometry and I've come to realize they were right. Unless you can open the set up, replace the caps and adjust the magnets/yoke, you're never going to get that.
 

MKL

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The idea that geometry distortions are ironed out by replacing electrolytic capacitors here and there is as untrue as it is popular in retrogaming communities (that consist largely of people that don't understand much about CRT operation). If anything the caps that in some cases may be held responsible for certain types of distortions (e.g. horizontal linearity) are the film caps in the line output stage. Most other issues that can't be solved by specific geometry adjustments have to do with the deflection yoke (e.g. vertical center).

https://elektrotanya.com/sony_crt-01_crt_troubleshooting_training_manual.pdf/download.html
 

Tempest

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The idea that geometry distortions are ironed out by replacing electrolytic capacitors here and there is as untrue as it is popular in retrogaming communities (that consist largely of people that don't understand much about CRT operation). If anything the caps that in some cases may be held responsible for certain types of distortions (e.g. horizontal linearity) are the film caps in the line output stage. Most other issues that can't be solved by specific geometry adjustments have to do with the deflection yoke (e.g. vertical center).

https://elektrotanya.com/sony_crt-01_crt_troubleshooting_training_manual.pdf/download.html

I always wondered how hard it is to adjust the deflection yoke. I know you don't want to mess with the purity rings unless you know exactly what you're doing, but how hard is it to adjust other things on the yoke?

Also, if I'm using an external speaker system, is there any reason not to use the built in speakers as well? Is it better to disable them?
 
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GohanX

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The idea that geometry distortions are ironed out by replacing electrolytic capacitors here and there is as untrue as it is popular in retrogaming communities (that consist largely of people that don't understand much about CRT operation). If anything the caps that in some cases may be held responsible for certain types of distortions (e.g. horizontal linearity) are the film caps in the line output stage. Most other issues that can't be solved by specific geometry adjustments have to do with the deflection yoke (e.g. vertical center).

https://elektrotanya.com/sony_crt-01_crt_troubleshooting_training_manual.pdf/download.html


When I went searching for my own TV's issues I always heard it was caps, but you likely know way more about these things than they do. It still falls under the "I'm not messing with that" category though.
 

Tempest

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Got the TV today. Pictures! The geometry is actually really good, just needed to make a few adjustments...

I've already increased the V/H size so there's some overscan off screen. The first picture is more so you can see the dreaded horizontal bowing.

My only concern is that in the second picture you can see the Green/White/Blue text next to the color bars (240p test suite SNES) is messed up. At first I thought this might be a defect in the TV, but now I'm not sure. All the games seem to look normal. Has anyone seen this sort of thing before? Maybe something is wrong with my SNES?

What are everyone's recommendations on brightness/sharpness/picture settings? Right now they're all at 50% as I reset them to normal (they were on Vivid when I turned it on and everything was blurry).

tv_1.jpg

tv_2.jpg

tv_3.jpg

tv_4.jpg
 
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