CRT Fetish Thread

xsq · Jul 19, 2017

hey, that looks alright! Good scoop. But how is your gran going to watch TV now - you most unscrupulous man!

embergabor · Jul 19, 2017

xsq said:
hey, that looks alright! Good scoop. But how is your gran going to watch TV now - you most unscrupulous man!

My granny got another CRT because she lost the remote for this one :P
(I should get a universal remote to access the service menu)

kaironman · Jul 19, 2017

Recently bought RGB cables for Neo-Geo CD and PS/PS2. Composite output of NGCD is good, but RGB is amazing.

Some PS arcade ports.

Tripredacus · Jul 19, 2017

Nice do-not-enter signs.

acampero · Jul 19, 2017

Hi all,
Does anyone have any info on this model Sony Wega - KV30HS420. I have it upstairs in my bedroom and have my component modded AES running on it and it looks great. I'm concerned about lag though (haven't measured it) on this and other CRT HD TV's. I did some googling and only got a little more confused about running 240p content on here and how much lag it's going to generate.

I haven't noticed any but I will admit that I suck at fighting games

Neodogg · Jul 19, 2017

acampero said:
Hi all,
Does anyone have any info on this model Sony Wega - KV30HS420. I have it upstairs in my bedroom and have my component modded AES running on it and it looks great. I'm concerned about lag though (haven't measured it) on this and other CRT HD TV's. I did some googling and only got a little more confused about running 240p content on here and how much lag it's going to generate.

I haven't noticed any but I will admit that I suck at fighting games

Lag on a crt...hmmm

acampero · Jul 19, 2017

Neodogg said:
Lag on a crt...hmmm

With HD CRT's I've heard.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52104

ChuChu Flamingo · Jul 19, 2017

Neodogg said:
Lag on a crt...hmmm

In general CRTS are usually lagless, but those consumer HD Crts and some very late produced CRTs (usually flat screen) do lag. Not sure why some of those late crts lag but what I surmised is that they were optimized for movie viewing/frame rate doubling and do stuff to the picture to make it look better.I also have a KV32HS420 which is 4:3 and it just sucks for retro games. The scanlines are nonexistent, input lag is around 2-3 frames,the scaling is bad and makes things look blurry and it can only go up to 720p/1080i. One would think that Son'y DRC (digtal reality creation) would be awesome for sources but it isn't. It line doubles 240p to 480p, deinterlaces 480i iirc, and upscales to 720p/1080i depending upon the setting.

Movies and 720p look pretty good though, but I rather watch on my big screen. If someone could find a way to remove the input lag this tv would be ballin with a scnaline upscaler as large 480p capable screens are hard to find.

Pretty cool testing this guy did but really not a big enough sample size but it does show not all crts are created equal.

https://smashboards.com/threads/wor...le-capture-device.355292/page-7#post-21307864

acampero · Jul 19, 2017

ChuChu Flamingo said:
In general CRTS are usually lagless, but those consumer HD Crts and some very late produced CRTs (usually flat screen) do lag. Not sure why some of those late crts lag but what I surmised is that they were optimized for movie viewing/frame rate doubling and do stuff to the picture to make it look better.I also have a KV32HS420 which is 4:3 and it just sucks for retro games. The scanlines are nonexistent, input lag is around 2-3 frames,the scaling is bad and makes things look blurry and it can only go up to 720p/1080i. One would think that Son'y DRC (digtal reality creation) would be awesome for sources but it isn't. It line doubles 240p to 480p, deinterlaces 480i iirc, and upscales to 720p/1080i depending upon the setting.

I was afraid of that. Had my son take a few quick pics. I was wondering where the hell the scan lines were too!!!

DanAdamKOF · Jul 19, 2017

It's definitely a few frames, I had to use lag compensation on rhythm games on KV-34XBR800 for them to feel right.

Oh and I remember some platformers felt slippery, since you'd see movement a few frames after you'd let go of the pad.

IMHO if you're picking up a new CRT specifically for retro stuff, avoid HDCRT, they do you no good.

twoquickcapri · Jul 20, 2017

Neodogg said:
Lag on a crt...hmmm

NEC 29XM (RGB Monitor) vs Sony kd-36xs955 (Super Fine Pitch HD CRT)

acampero · Jul 20, 2017

Well,
I hooked up my Sony PVM-20M4U and ran Sam Sho III side by side. Both component. One running on my Omega and the other on my AES and I almost started to cry when I saw how beautiful the PVM looked. The Sony Wega - KV30HS420 looked like shit in comparison. The colors looked bright and beautiful but the picture was just a deinterlaced mess in comparison to the clean PVM. Looks like I am going to get rid of this POS.

Gamefan · Jul 20, 2017

I used my WEGA 32" SONY KV-HV600 CRT once in a while on my CMVS using component and sometimes I cannot tell a difference. My Sony CRT is set in Pro Mode though. In the end though, I love my PVM!

acampero · Jul 20, 2017

Gamefan said:
I used my WEGA 32" SONY KV-HV600 CRT once in a while on my CMVS using component and sometimes I cannot tell a difference. My Sony CRT is set in Pro Mode though. In the end though, I love my PVM!

Interesting. How do you set in Pro Mode?

Gamefan · Jul 20, 2017

On my set under Video options, there is an output option for Vivid, Dynamic, and Pro Mode.

acampero · Jul 20, 2017

Gamefan said:
On my set under Video options, there is an output option for Vivid, Dynamic, and Pro Mode.

I'll try that but I think the culprit is the damn DRC (Digital Reality Creation) mode which I believe is a line doubler. I can't turn that off and did some quick googling and even in the service menu you can't access that.

Dochartaigh · Jul 20, 2017

For the high-def consumer CRT TV's, they tend to look like crap because that 240p picture is upscaled (and not in a nice way) by the TV to either 480p, 720p, or 1080i (or something like that). This upscaling done by the TV is also why there's lag (because it takes time to process the image), and is also why there's no scanlines because the image is no longer really 240p.

I've always wondered if you could use an OSSC or Framemeister on one of these to properly scale the image to 720p or whatnot, and not have any lines, and have them generate scanlines as well (or at least I know the OSSC can generate scanlines - I don't know too much about the Framemeister).

acampero · Jul 20, 2017

I did come up with an idea. I'm going to try and hook up my Dreamcast via my Akura and go HDMI into this CRT and see how she looks. I'm hoping since it's 480p it will look and play good with limited lag.

RAZO · Jul 20, 2017

acampero said:
I did come up with an idea. I'm going to try and hook up my Dreamcast via my Akura and go HDMI into this CRT and see how she looks. I'm hoping since it's 480p it will look and play good with limited lag.

Doubt you will have minimal lag. If anything, you'll have even more lag.

OMFG · Jul 20, 2017

acampero said:
I did come up with an idea. I'm going to try and hook up my Dreamcast via my Akura and go HDMI into this CRT and see how she looks. I'm hoping since it's 480p it will look and play good with limited lag.

On your Wega, why not use a Dreamcast VGA adapter and use this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fosmon-6...50019&wl11=online&wl12=40900065&wl13=&veh=sem

KyaDash · Jul 21, 2017

All Sony HDCRT TVs scale what is input up (or down) to 1080i. The different DRC settings can control whether this is displayed as actual 1080i or if it instead displays it as 540p instead. 480p is handled by windowboxing it into said 540p signal, and then expanding the raster to hide the unused portion of the screen. 720p (on the models that actually support it) is downscaled to 1080i.

I can't say this stands for every single one of their models (though the comparison on the previous page using an XS955 would suggest it), but my tests have shown the HS420 sets have 3 frames of lag for 240p and 480i content, and 2 frames for 480p. There is a setting in the service menu on many of these CRTs that can disable some of the processing they do, which would presumably lower this down further, but it ONLY affects the HDMI input. I don't know if this is resolution specific however.

Video of aforementioned test comparing a KV-27HS420 to a Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 37 (XC-3730c):

acampero · Jul 21, 2017

OMFG said:
On your Wega, why not use a Dreamcast VGA adapter and use this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fosmon-6...50019&wl11=online&wl12=40900065&wl13=&veh=sem

I think I would still need to convert the signal from VGA to Component.

acampero · Jul 21, 2017

KyaDash said:
All Sony HDCRT TVs scale what is input up (or down) to 1080i. The different DRC settings can control whether this is displayed as actual 1080i or if it instead displays it as 540p instead. 480p is handled by windowboxing it into said 540p signal, and then expanding the raster to hide the unused portion of the screen. 720p (on the models that actually support it) is downscaled to 1080i.

I can't say this stands for every single one of their models (though the comparison on the previous page using an XS955 would suggest it), but my tests have shown the HS420 sets have 3 frames of lag for 240p and 480i content, and 2 frames for 480p. There is a setting in the service menu on many of these CRTs that can disable some of the processing they do, which would presumably lower this down further, but it ONLY affects the HDMI input. I don't know if this is resolution specific however.

Video of aforementioned test comparing a KV-27HS420 to a Mitsubishi Megaview Pro 37 (XC-3730c):

Thanks for sharing that. I will test out the DC but it looks like I might be scraping this TV.

Gamefan · Jul 23, 2017

OMFG said:
On your Wega, why not use a Dreamcast VGA adapter and use this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fosmon-6...50019&wl11=online&wl12=40900065&wl13=&veh=sem

OMFG - I used one of these before and all I got were wavy lines and some shaking. My WEGA can support it, but not sure the DC could. Just my experience.

JoeAwesome · Jul 24, 2017

OMFG said:
On your Wega, why not use a Dreamcast VGA adapter and use this?

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Fosmon-6...50019&wl11=online&wl12=40900065&wl13=&veh=sem

That cable says VGA to Component, but looks like it only does Component to VGA.

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