Bayonetta 2: Wii U Exclusive

Raoul said:

Nintendo has been very comfortable with just the sporadic release of a new Mario/Zelda/Metroid game and the days between them they haven't much cared to think about, how many shovelware games does the Wii have that fills the gaps between actual good titles( both from Nintendo and 3rd party that I won't even mention got buried by Nintendo )?

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Eternal optimist that I am, I am hoping Nintendo means it when they say they're serious about getting the 'hardcore' contingent back.

My real issue with Nintendo and their marketing strategy is that their statements work at cross purposes with their releases.

They want to get 'hardcore' again but then they release the 3DS. Which is a nice system, and to Nintendo's credit has a number of fantastic titles for it that could be considered 'mature subject matter:'

Resident Evil: The Mercenaries
Resident Evil: Revelations
Dead or Alive: Dimensions

What Nintendo REALLY wants is to turn 'us' into 'them.' They want everyone to be the same consumer. They want the hardcore to accept the gimmicks so that they can sell to FPS gamer and soccer mom alike. That way, they get to keep 'printing money.'

But it also shows they don't understand, or don't care, that their strategy is a crap shoot. They are going to have to come out with the most revolutionary hardware ever made that will convert the heathens into the congregation.

You could argue that Nintendo is gradually 'weeding the old thought out' but that's just not true. The most well known franchises and titles are OLD games, such as FPS and Madden. Even Nintendo's most anticipated releases are nostalgia releases. All old stuff. People like old stuff the old way. They like the new stuff until it becomes the old stuff, and then they want it to stay old.

Nintendo needs to develop and support new IPs for store shelves. That's why I'm really excited about ZombiiU. Sure, it's survival horror. But it's also a fascinating title that looks to truly implement the tablet into the gameplay, and is not just a gimmick.

This is why I can't completely write Nintendo off. They keep shitting all over themselves, but every once in a while, the sexy, sexy maid comes along to clean them off.

Example: I hated the 3DS hardware but love the 3DS XL because of the screen size. I'm enjoying these games in a way I never could before, and eve using the hardware in favor of my DSi XL for old DS games. Should have just done this from the start, tho.

Average Joe said:

i like how happy Jedah gets when people agree with him

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Jedah lives for the rare occasion his existence is acknowledged on this forum.

Teaser. Barely shows anything though:

Guess not as many people enjoyed the Wii as much as I found out that I did. I never really cared for my 360 out side of Halo and all I ever really used my PS3 for was Portal 2, Bayonetta, ICO HD, and fighters. I was never one for a lot of FPS or sandbox games and the Wii seemed to have a more variety of games for me to choose from, MadWorld, No More Heroes, Pinkmin, Xenoblade, and a few good platformers and others.

I don't really get how people can so loosely use the term "hardcore" and "casual" to discribe gaming systems or games, I always believed the term should be used to describe the gamer. Some one plays CoD (I know people hate the game, I am just using it for example) for an 1 a night and just online and has no interest in the single player or really the extras, another person though could be playing Angry Birds and trying to get a all the stars (or what ever the medals are) to 100% the game. "Hardcore" games can be played pretty casually and "casual" games can be played to the extreme, and that is why I roll my eyes whenever I here some one call one system core and another casual. These are terms used to descibe players, not platforms.

Ukee said:

Guess not as many people enjoyed the Wii as much as I found out that I did. I never really cared for my 360 out side of Halo and all I ever really used my PS3 for was Portal 2, Bayonetta, ICO HD, and fighters. I was never one for a lot of FPS or sandbox games and the Wii seemed to have a more variety of games for me to choose from, MadWorld, No More Heroes, Pinkmin, Xenoblade, and a few good platformers and others.

I don't really get how people can so loosely use the term "hardcore" and "casual" to discribe gaming systems or games, I always believed the term should be used to describe the gamer. Some one plays CoD (I know people hate the game, I am just using it for example) for an 1 a night and just online and has no interest in the single player or really the extras, another person though could be playing Angry Birds and trying to get a all the stars (or what ever the medals are) to 100% the game. "Hardcore" games can be played pretty casually and "casual" games can be played to the extreme, and that is why I roll my eyes whenever I here some one call one system core and another casual. These are terms used to descibe players, not platforms.

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I agree with the theme of your post.

Its hard to argue that the Wii was during part of its life span aimed at "casual" gamers. You know, the people who never owned a game system in their life but got sucked in by Wii Fit. There were MAJOR add campaigns here for Wii Fit but nothing else Nintendo related. IIRC there was a time when Nintendo was selling major amounts of Wii systems bundled with Wii Fit but very few games. That says quite a lot. Therefore I think that the "casual" term was applied to the system in compliment for the demographic aimed at.

To me its a kiddies console. When my kids get old enough I will pick up a second hand one and play it with them.

I will buy one game for myself on the Wii - Tatsonoku vs Capcom.

It is cool that Nintendo, last of the old guard, are still kicking around as a hardware manufacturer.

But Nintendo specifically said they were going for "casuals" and it's exactly what they did

Raoul said:

But Nintendo specifically said they were going for "casuals" and it's exactly what they did

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That they did. I won't deny that the Wii's market was way over satchurated with games made for casual players, thanks mainly to Nintendo, but the ability to play more then casual was there. Nintendo's big problem was not making the Wii as noticeable for hardcore gaming which was a bad move to do when you already had a weak console before it, but I get the impression that they are learning from this mistake and trying to turn it around thus why they picked up Bayonetta and (correct me if I am wrong on this) own the publishing rights to Fatal Frame.

Bayonetta being a Wii U exclusive does suck, I am never a fan of any thing being exclusive outside of first party games. For me personally I had a good experience with the Wii and will likely end up getting a Wii U sooner or later and I will see what damage Nintendo will do to this game. Could be good or could be bad, I won't pass judgement till I play it cause I am tired of being that way. I have missed a few to many fun games because the way I presumed how games are this generation instead of playing it for myself.

I don't think its "cool" they are still in the hardware game at all. I wish Nintendo would go the way of Sega and just start releasing games for other consoles/ios/android/pc. They have no idea how to make quality hardware, the Wii is a perfect example of this. The Wii-U will only look slightly next gen next to current consoles, once peer generation consoles are released it will quickly show its age... Just like the Wii! Sure looks aren't everything, but if thats your standpoint why even bother to make another system? Nintendo needs to do what they do best, make fun games. Leave the hardware biz to people that know about hardware. I'm sure my opinion will not be popular in this thread, some die hard N fans about. To be clear I really do love Nintendo games.

If they'd make a new F-Zero I'd buy one.
Or No More Heroes 3 but right now the whole thing just looks like Wii 2.0 to me.

Jassin000 said:

I don't think its "cool" they are still in the hardware game at all. I wish Nintendo would go the way of Sega and just start releasing games for other consoles/ios/android/pc. They have no idea how to make quality hardware, the Wii is a perfect example of this. The Wii-U will only look slightly next gen next to current consoles, once peer generation consoles are released it will quickly show its age... Just like the Wii! Sure looks aren't everything, but if thats your standpoint why even bother to make another system? Nintendo needs to do what they do best, make fun games. Leave the hardware biz to people that know about hardware. I'm sure my opinion will not be popular in this thread, some die hard N fans about. To be clear I really do love Nintendo games.

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I only think this is half true; Nintendo's console offerings for the few generations have been pretty lackluster to me, but they shine at making portables. As much as I enjoy all my hardware, I can't help but feel as though no one else can get the formula for great and engaging portable hardware down like Nintendo. PSP was more powerful, but I never really felt engaged and subsequently, it hasn't seen much play. The Vita...wonderful specs, no soul; it's just missing that certain something. Nintendo portables have always had that certain magic about them that makes me want to turn them on and just play, and the software lineups are always amazing.
I don't think Nintendo will ever stop making hardware by choice, but they may focus purely on mobile one day,and current market trends may force them in that direction, whether Iwata likes it or not. I'm still excited for the Wii U, but I'm sure much of that is from me looking at it through nostalgia-tinted glasses.

To everyone pissed off about this: Blame Microsoft & Sony for not bankrolling the game. SEGA is not in a great financial situation these days; and it seems apparent that Nintendo swooped in with the funding. If Nintendo hadn't done that, it seems pretty certain that Bayonetta 2 would not exist. End of story.

Anyway, I played and loved the hell out of Bayonetta on my 360; and already planned to buy the Wii U; and this is just icing on the cake; glad it's getting developed at all; and developing it from the ground up for Wii U could possibly give it some interesting features and improved performance than if it was multiplatform.

Remember, hardcore gamers play games, not consoles. Quit bitching.

Jassin000 said:

I don't think its "cool" they are still in the hardware game at all. I wish Nintendo would go the way of Sega and just start releasing games for other consoles/ios/android/pc. They have no idea how to make quality hardware, the Wii is a perfect example of this. The Wii-U will only look slightly next gen next to current consoles, once peer generation consoles are released it will quickly show its age... Just like the Wii! Sure looks aren't everything, but if thats your standpoint why even bother to make another system? Nintendo needs to do what they do best, make fun games. Leave the hardware biz to people that know about hardware. I'm sure my opinion will not be popular in this thread, some die hard N fans about. To be clear I really do love Nintendo games.

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I am not tying to come off as a N fanboy (I am anything but, beleive me) but I really don't see them dropping from hardware since they did sell more systems then both Sony and M$ by a rather decent gap, so why stop making hardware when they beat out the competition in both fields, home consoles and handheld. A new generation isn't just graphical upgrade either. I know you said looks aren't everything, but I don't think you believe that based you turning right around and attacking them for their graphical choice.

Jassin000 said:

I don't think its "cool" they are still in the hardware game at all. I wish Nintendo would go the way of Sega and just start releasing games for other consoles/ios/android/pc.

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When I got into gaming it was the 8 bit era. Nintendo were there. They are here now.

Where the others have fallen, Nintendo somehow have pushed through. I personally can't stand Nintendo. I have never understood them.

It saddens me that Sega (my favourite) had to go out the way it did. I wish Sega could have endured somehow in hardware.

For nostalgia sake alone it is both good and bad that Nintendo are still around making hardware. Nostalgia only, nothing more.

Nintendo must be doing something right to remain in business all these years. It's not like the Japanese gov't would give 'em bailout money because they're too big to fail.

I want to add that while Wii has some good under-rated exclusives(Sin & Punishement 2, for one); for the most part I did find it a bit disappointing. But I never went around acting like an arrogant ass to people that liked the Wii; as if they must be casual(I.E. lesser) gamers, and therefore inferior to me.

Anyway, point is; it seems so many of the people bashing the Bayonetta 2 announcement(in general, not necessarily on this forum) have written off Wii U as if it were for grandmas and kids before it's even gotten out of the gates. But if they actually stopped to look at what Nintendo is doing with it; there's a very distinct attempt to reel in serious gamers; and Bayonetta 2 is just further evidence of that. I think that should be applauded. And not just because it's an improvement from Wii.

Nintendo is a balancing force against the so-called "AAA" or bust mentality that came to a head in the console industry this passing generation. We've watched legendary developers like Hudson Soft & Irem die, as the "mid-tier" got squeezed. We've watched as the focus of Microsoft & Sony went primarily on generic brown regenerating-health set-piece too-big-to-fail shootan games. These homogenized games take hundreds of people to develop, and the costs keep publishers steering clear of new IP or even creativity. The last thing the console industry needs right now is another huge step in skyrocketing development costs, and 400+ man development teams. What are we going to get, even further watered down gameplay in our games(oh, but with purdy graphics!1!) and priced at $100? And loads of day 1 DLC to help make sure the games profit.

The good ship Nintendo could end up being a haven for "mid-tier" developers, which is why Platinum Games seems to be putting their chips in with Nintendo, it just makes sense. And if that's how it's going to be, that's where I want to be as a gamer.

I'm not a Nintendo fanboy(I'll argue to the grave that Genesis had better games than SNES, atleast for my tastes), but I just have never understood the fanboys that hate on major platforms to such extremes, because they all have good games. Also, console exclusives are as old as the console industry is, deal with it. I think some people just weren't ready for next-generation shots to start being fired this early on.

Note: By "AAA" and "mid-tier", I'm only referencing budget sizes, not quality.

SNKorSWM said:

Nintendo must be doing something right to remain in business all these years. It's not like the Japanese gov't would give 'em bailout money because they're too big to fail.

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I've thought the same for years. "what the hell is nintendo doing?" "how are they still doing well?!"

Zardoz said:

I've thought the same for years. "what the hell is nintendo doing?" "how are they still doing well?!"

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My guess is Pokemon.....

Zardoz said:

I've thought the same for years. "what the hell is nintendo doing?" "how are they still doing well?!"

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Selling millions of DS and Wii systems for actual profit?

Why is this even a question?

kernow: Yes of course its because they are selling consoles for profit, I think what Zardoz is really asking... "Why do people keep buying Nintendo consoles?" The answer is always the same, they make quality games that are (for the most part) very enjoyable to play. From a hardware standpoint I hate my Wii, its a over clocked Gamecube with a gimick for a controller. I got it to play Nintendo games, and from a first party game standpoint, I've been happy with it. Personally I don't want Nintendo to fail, but every generation after the N64 I've found myself wishing they would stop making consoles. I refuse to buy a Wii-U, I wish it didn't have to be this way tho. I really want to play New Super, another Zelda, even a Metroid (so long as its not made by Team Ninja). I think its time to put my money where my mouth is, if I hate the hardware I shouldn't be supporting the creation and continuation of it.

I am not fond of the Ningimmicks myself. The motion controles were cute till you found out that to get around the menu and for a number of games the are REQUIRED. I like my standered button and stick controlers thank you very much. I don't wish for Nintendo to stop making hardware though, I just want them to stop forcing their ways onto us. Thankfully I read some place that THQ confermed that you will not be required to use the GamePad to play Darksiders and that a classic controller will do the job, fingers crossed that this will be the majoirty case. However knowing Nintendo's track recored I can't see them not trying to make us use the pad for long. Though honestly I think I can attach myself more to the Gamepad then the motion controles thanks to the DS. I have really enjoyed the luxury of having my menus or maps easiely accessible with out pausing or switching the on game screen and the touch screen for quick item selection.

Platinum Games' say on the matter:

"On September 13, 2012 Bayonetta 2 was announced as an exclusive title under development for the Wii U during the Nintendo Direction presentation held on the same day.
As game developers, we are incredibly excited to be able to announce a new title to all of our fans; however, we are aware that the announcement may have come as a shock to many of you.
As with Bayonetta, Bayonetta 2 is under development and production here at PlatinumGames, and is a true sequel to the acclaimed first game in the series. Bayonetta is one of our most beloved titles, and it played a large part in establishing PlatinumGames as an emerging game studio in the minds of users worldwide. Bayonetta has fans the world over, and we would never dream of alienating them from participating in the future of PlatinumGames.
That being said, the console games market is in a state of upheaval, so establishing a new game franchise requires a considerable amount of will, determination, and love. Bayonetta is a brand that we want to see become stronger, reaching the hands of more and more gamers, so we have continued to consult with SEGA, the previous game’s publisher, on how we can make sure this takes place. Our answer was a new partnership with Nintendo.
Along with their new hardware, Nintendo, as a company, is dedicated to establishing a new future for the games industry, as you can tell by their record of passionate support for gaming. Alongside Nintendo, we hope to grow the Bayonetta brand beyond where it stands today, allowing even more gamers around the world to experience the action of our beloved witch. As developers, we are working hard to make this a reality.
We hope that you will look forward to what we have in store.

Tatsuya Minami
President & CEO, PlatinumGames Inc."

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Edit: Replaced GameSpot's excerpt by the original source post at PG's site

kernow said:

Selling millions of DS and Wii systems for actual profit?

Why is this even a question?

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they actually make money on systems these days? back in the day they'd either just barely break even or take losses on systems(not just nintendo, all of them). heck, even resellers wouldn't make any money on systems. i remember the wholesalers/distributors would always say "you need to sell the systems so you can make money on the games".
i remember i used to get systems for only about $2 - $3 cheaper then retail. what's funny with the games also is say a game's supposed to sell for $49.99, i'd get em at around $44 - $45 unless i bought in bulk then it'd be maybe another $2 cheaper. heh

uh, no. nintendo made a profit from gamecube. look up the numbers.

I just hope nintendo doesn't jump on the" lets revise the current distro model and kill used games sales" bandwagon

hyperneophyt3 said:

I just hope nintendo doesn't jump on the" lets revise the current distro model and kill used games sales" bandwagon

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it's understandable why companies such as nintendo do not want used game sales considering they make nothing off of them. perhaps rather then attempt to ban such sales, maybe require the "gamestops" out there to give them a share of the sale? orr perhaps lower the price of new games..

i guess these discussions will just go on & on and not go anywhere though eh?