A Count On U.S. Metal Slugs

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Waverider2049

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Hey everyone. I have searched the forums and found a thread or two on this topic but in typical fashion it turns into an argument and gets thrown off topic. The question I have is how many Metal Slug 3, 4 and 5 were produced for the U.S. Market. I know we will never know about 1 2 or X because of multiple distributors but If I'm correct 3, 4 and 5 were Neostore exclusives. Does anyone know the true answer to this age old question besides shawn and if not why is it a secret?
 
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arcwyvern

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I would love to know this info as well. I don't understand why the neostore numbers are so secretive. In the record collecting world, when something is limited to like 350 copies, the number is used to highlight its rarity and suckers like me buy it as fast as possible. The only neostore game I remember reading anything about having a count was Sengoku 3 and I believe it was 500 copies. It was printed in a magazine interview with Shawn.
 
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Waverider2049

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I feel if everyone knew the true amount and they were accounted for it could only prevent more from being added to circulation. I have both U.S. and J.P. versions of 3, 4, and 5 and I would to know what I have in terms of rarity. People say that US MS5 is very rare but according to others in the previous threads it is a 500 print run which is supposedly the same as MS3 and MS4 so I don't see why it is more rare then the others.
 
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zoogelio

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I was actually curious about this subject earlier and looked into it. Shawn released the US AES production numbers for early games, but evidently SNK/Playmore didn't want that information to be released and Shawn had to abide by their wishes to keep the games coming (the indications were SNK/SNKP were embarrassed by the small size of the production run. Seems even for SNK/SNKP "size matters" even though it's a silly position to have since it's for a market they treated as a backwater 1+ years after they entirely pulled out of it and hadn't treated as any kind of priority in the 6 previous years from 2001 so of course it would have small numbers, not to mention the US not supporting older consoles as long as Japan does [e.g. compare how long the SNES, Genesis, Dreamcast lasted in Japan vs. US]). The only confirmed numbers I could dig up...
Metal Slug 3- 500 copies
Sengoku 3- 500 copies
King of Fighters 2001- 500 copies
Metal Slug 4- 300 copies
Rage of the Dragons- 300 copies

Shawn was told by SNK/Playmore early on that production runs of 500 were needed to secure the orders, at least initially. Some games moved like snails with their large stock (Sengoku 3, KOF 2001), so he was able to reduce the orders down to 300 so he wasn't stuck with so many carts.

For the rest, it looks like Matrimelee had 300 copies. It's not clear if they ever went below 300 (would Shawn be willing to reveal what the smallest production run was for a late AES release, even if not pegged to a game?). Looking into it, some games *might* of had something over 300/under 500 produced (400? 350?) like SVC Chaos, which looked good to many in the lead up to its release, but hideous after its release (I guess SVC Chaos was a bakkushan). MS5 did sell out extremely fast, but not sure if that was because an order under 300 was put in or because of high demand (Metal Slug had the highest demand from 01-04) combined with knowledge it was made by SNKP and not a Korean substitute as Playmore needed as it reconstituted itself.

My best guess with some of the others based on listed preorder totals I was able to dig up (and with hints like no game had under 70 preorders [Sengoku 3 had 70 preorders])-

* King of Fighters 2002- Shawn once said KOF2003 & 2002 had the same number produced. Maybe 400? Or was it 300 with significantly reduced demand?

* King of Fighters 2003- 400? Numbers were hidden until months after release of remaining stock. Definately seems like it was *not* 500. It did sell out far faster than 2002 or 2001 though.

* Matrimelee- 300. Looks like a pretty clean case for that number.

* SVC Chaos- Seems to be over 300, so perhaps 400? Maybe even 500? It had at least over 100 preorders but 500 would require too many preorders (like 300). 350~400 seems like a reasonable number for "high interest".

* Samurai Shodown V- Maybe 300?

* Samurai Shodown V Special- no clue. The whole unfixed vs. fixed division and being unable to find any fixed tallies makes it hard to track. It was likely small, 300 (or less if less were ever made).



I was also able to dig up when several of the games sold out. Sadly, while many marked the milestones of a US AES sell-out when it occurred while the Neo Geo was still seeing releases, after it, the sellouts went quietly. I tried to use that to get a sense of demand vs. supply to deduce the totals.

1. Rage of the Dragons (2003)- 2nd quickest to sell out. Looks like it took 6 months.
2. Metal Slug 3 (2003)
3. Metal Slug 4 (2004)
4. Metal Slug 5 (2004)- quickest game to sell out. Did so within a month or so.
5. Sengoku 3 (2004)- it had a large stock that didn't come down til it was aggressively discounted and people realized its use as a late-Neo Geo sac cart.
6. King of Fighters 2003 (2006)
7. Samurai Shodown V Special (2007)- Unfixed sold out early in 2007, fixed sold out late in 2007.
8. Samurai Shodown V (2008)
9/10. King of Fighters 2001 (2009 or 2010)- It had a hell of a time moving the last 100 or so carts.
9/10. SVC Chaos (2009 or 2010)- its stock moved glacially.
And it looks like Matrimelee, KOF 2002 still have some original stock left, at least best I can tell.


Would Shawn now be able to reveal production numbers or would that jeopardize getting the new Neo Geo handheld? Or, maybe more indirectly- were their any production numbers besides 300 & 500? And if any were lower than 300, what were they? And another question- what was the rough percentages/fractions of English AES buyers to Japanese AES buyers to MVS buyers during the 2001-04 run of Neo Geo releases through the Neo Store?
 
hyper

hyper

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I don't see how the upcoming neo geo handheld is anything to be excited about, it's a handheld emulator with an snk-p silkscreen..

I already have a psp and teh romz
 
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arcwyvern

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zoogelio said:
I was actually curious about this subject earlier and looked into it. Shawn released the US AES production numbers for early games, but evidently SNK/Playmore didn't want that information to be released and Shawn had to abide by their wishes to keep the games coming (the indications were SNK/SNKP were embarrassed by the small size of the production run. Seems even for SNK/SNKP "size matters" even though it's a silly position to have since it's for a market they treated as a backwater 1+ years after they entirely pulled out of it and hadn't treated as any kind of priority in the 6 previous years from 2001 so of course it would have small numbers, not to mention the US not supporting older consoles as long as Japan does [e.g. compare how long the SNES, Genesis, Dreamcast lasted in Japan vs. US]). The only confirmed numbers I could dig up...
Metal Slug 3- 500 copies
Sengoku 3- 500 copies
King of Fighters 2001- 500 copies
Metal Slug 4- 300 copies
Rage of the Dragons- 300 copies

Shawn was told by SNK/Playmore early on that production runs of 500 were needed to secure the orders, at least initially. Some games moved like snails with their large stock (Sengoku 3, KOF 2001), so he was able to reduce the orders down to 300 so he wasn't stuck with so many carts.

For the rest, it looks like Matrimelee had 300 copies. It's not clear if they ever went below 300 (would Shawn be willing to reveal what the smallest production run was for a late AES release, even if not pegged to a game?). Looking into it, some games *might* of had something over 300/under 500 produced (400? 350?) like SVC Chaos, which looked good to many in the lead up to its release, but hideous after its release (I guess SVC Chaos was a bakkushan). MS5 did sell out extremely fast, but not sure if that was because an order under 300 was put in or because of high demand (Metal Slug had the highest demand from 01-04) combined with knowledge it was made by SNKP and not a Korean substitute as Playmore needed as it reconstituted itself.

My best guess with some of the others based on listed preorder totals I was able to dig up (and with hints like no game had under 70 preorders [Sengoku 3 had 70 preorders])-

* King of Fighters 2002- Shawn once said KOF2003 & 2002 had the same number produced. Maybe 400? Or was it 300 with significantly reduced demand?

* King of Fighters 2003- 400? Numbers were hidden until months after release of remaining stock. Definately seems like it was *not* 500. It did sell out far faster than 2002 or 2001 though.

* Matrimelee- 300. Looks like a pretty clean case for that number.

* SVC Chaos- Seems to be over 300, so perhaps 400? Maybe even 500? It had at least over 100 preorders but 500 would require too many preorders (like 300). 350~400 seems like a reasonable number for "high interest".

* Samurai Shodown V- Maybe 300?

* Samurai Shodown V Special- no clue. The whole unfixed vs. fixed division and being unable to find any fixed tallies makes it hard to track. It was likely small, 300 (or less if less were ever made).



I was also able to dig up when several of the games sold out. Sadly, while many marked the milestones of a US AES sell-out when it occurred while the Neo Geo was still seeing releases, after it, the sellouts went quietly. I tried to use that to get a sense of demand vs. supply to deduce the totals.

1. Rage of the Dragons (2003)- 2nd quickest to sell out. Looks like it took 6 months.
2. Metal Slug 3 (2003)
3. Metal Slug 4 (2004)
4. Metal Slug 5 (2004)- quickest game to sell out. Did so within a month or so.
5. Sengoku 3 (2004)- it had a large stock that didn't come down til it was aggressively discounted and people realized its use as a late-Neo Geo sac cart.
6. King of Fighters 2003 (2006)
7. Samurai Shodown V Special (2007)- Unfixed sold out early in 2007, fixed sold out late in 2007.
8. Samurai Shodown V (2008)
9/10. King of Fighters 2001 (2009 or 2010)- It had a hell of a time moving the last 100 or so carts.
9/10. SVC Chaos (2009 or 2010)- its stock moved glacially.
And it looks like Matrimelee, KOF 2002 still have some original stock left, at least best I can tell.


Would Shawn now be able to reveal production numbers or would that jeopardize getting the new Neo Geo handheld? Or, maybe more indirectly- were their any production numbers besides 300 & 500? And if any were lower than 300, what were they? And another question- what was the rough percentages/fractions of English AES buyers to Japanese AES buyers to MVS buyers during the 2001-04 run of Neo Geo releases through the Neo Store?
Click to expand...

Wow. This was fantastic and quite informative. Where were you able to cull all this info?
 
Splitt442

Splitt442

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Great, every asshole on eBay can now list "ZOMG RARE Sengoku 3 ONLY 500 MADE!!!!!!!!"

I'll never own that game at this rate!!! :very_ang:
 
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arcwyvern

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Splitt442 said:
Great, every asshole on eBay can now list "ZOMG RARE Sengoku 3 ONLY 500 MADE!!!!!!!!"

I'll never own that game at this rate!!! :very_ang:
Click to expand...

I'm also in the snoozed and lost camp with sengoku 3. It was so cheap (relatively) for such a long time and look at us now. Chumps. I hardly ever see even a loose MVS cart of that game. I'm glad that I did come into some money and was able to get KOF 2002 and SVC at the sub-$200 level from the neostore. Those prices are looooong gone for late US releases.
 
evil wasabi

evil wasabi

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Sengoku 3 is not even close to a great game. Crisis Evil was a better beat em up.
 
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supergoose

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wataru330 said:
Destroyed?

What's the story on this?
Click to expand...
many were used as sac carts or conversions, when the neo store had them marked down to ~$125. i'm glad i got mine for $100, because i actually like playing the game every now and then.

edit:
i would be surprised, if there were more than 300 english copies left.
 
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zoogelio

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supergoose79 said:
many were used as sac carts or conversions, when the neo store had them marked down to ~$125. i'm glad i got mine for $100, because i actually like playing the game every now and then.

edit:
i would be surprised, if there were more than 300 english copies left.
Click to expand...

Checking my notes...
At least through a $199 price (around Aug 2002) 211 some copies were sold. At $175 (changed ~April 2003), there were still 174/500 remaining. At $149 (~Oct 2003) it only sold about 30 more copies. It looks like after it hit $135 (Dec 2003), the number of copies plummetted below 100. The price went up again to $149 and the $165 as the stock got very low. I think we can assume those 200 early copies were sold to collectors. So, even if assuming every single copy sold when the price got to $135 was a sac cart and not holdout collectors, that means 500 - 120 = 380 copies. Not as rare as you'd think. Even assuming 200 copies destroyed, that leaves it 300, same as many other Neo Store AES releases. The Neo Geo releases ~1996 will probably forever remain rarer.


Actually, it's a weird concept to think there are games out there that are actively sought out to be destroyed or reappropriated. The 3 sac carts that come to mind are Samurai Shodown II (sheer quantity), Sengoku 3 (relative quantity, right age, low regard), and Gyromite (sought out because a myth kind of developed it more often than not had a Famicom converter, it was common, cheap, and held in low regard. My research only ~20% of its carts contain the fabled converter. It does more often than not lack a converter. There are means of finding converters without opening carts and some games with far higher success rates).
 
evil wasabi

evil wasabi

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zoogelio said:
Checking my notes...
At least through a $199 price (around Aug 2002) 211 some copies were sold. At $175 (changed ~April 2003), there were still 174/500 remaining. At $149 (~Oct 2003) it only sold about 30 more copies. It looks like after it hit $135 (Dec 2003), the number of copies plummetted below 100. The price went up again to $149 and the $165 as the stock got very low. I think we can assume those 200 early copies were sold to collectors. So, even if assuming every single copy sold when the price got to $135 was a sac cart and not holdout collectors, that means 500 - 120 = 380 copies. Not as rare as you'd think. Even assuming 200 copies destroyed, that leaves it 300, same as many other Neo Store AES releases. The Neo Geo releases ~1996 will probably forever remain rarer.


Actually, it's a weird concept to think there are games out there that are actively sought out to be destroyed or reappropriated. The 3 sac carts that come to mind are Samurai Shodown II (sheer quantity), Sengoku 3 (relative quantity, right age, low regard), and Gyromite (sought out because a myth kind of developed it more often than not had a Famicom converter, it was common, cheap, and held in low regard. My research only ~20% of its carts contain the fabled converter. It does more often than not lack a converter. There are means of finding converters without opening carts and some games with far higher success rates).
Click to expand...

Sengoku 3 was the best option for a sac cart back in the early 2000s, and was, if I remember correctly, used for the NGF Zupapa conversions, and likely other conversions as well.
 
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Geddon_jt

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If I recall correctly, the Neostore English releases where the quantity amounts were public knowledge were Metal Slug 3, Sengoku 3 The other numbers above might be right but I don't know and I don't recall them being revealed before.

Metal Slug 3 english = 500 copies
Sengoku 3 english = 500 copies
Rage of the Dragons english = 204 copies

I do think Slug 5 was the fastest sellout at around 6 weeks. Also KOF 2003 English sold out really quick, I want to say it was 2-3 months max. I know because I missed it and paid a lot more for it years later. :(

A lot of Sengoku 3s were DEFINITELY used for sac carts... the Japanese version dried up fast and was collectible even while the English was selling at $150 or less. Therefore the saccers bought English carts en masse and they eventually dried up... :( You used to see a lot of Sengoku 3 inserts and manuals on ebay around this time.
 
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zoogelio

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Geddon_jt said:
If I recall correctly, the Neostore English releases where the quantity amounts were public knowledge were Metal Slug 3, Sengoku 3 The other numbers above might be right but I don't know and I don't recall them being revealed before.

Metal Slug 3 english = 500 copies
Sengoku 3 english = 500 copies
Rage of the Dragons english = 204 copies

I do think Slug 5 was the fastest sellout at around 6 weeks. Also KOF 2003 English sold out really quick, I want to say it was 2-3 months max. I know because I missed it and paid a lot more for it years later. :(

A lot of Sengoku 3s were DEFINITELY used for sac carts... the Japanese version dried up fast and was collectible even while the English was selling at $150 or less. Therefore the saccers bought English carts en masse and they eventually dried up... :( You used to see a lot of Sengoku 3 inserts and manuals on ebay around this time.
Click to expand...

I thought from what I read that the 204 for ROTD was that there were 204 remaining, indicating 96 sold at that time. Every game had at least 70 preorders. Maybe Shawn could clarify, if he ever chooses to clarify on this matter.

And KOF 2003 sold out sometime in early-mid 2006, at least the English AES release. The stock was listed throughout 2004 and 2005 on archived versions of Neostore pages.
 
mahesak

mahesak

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I like to read this topic :)

It makes me have much knowledge for amount of cart in the past. In Thailand, around 1996 I saw many rental game shops have metal slug U.S. AES for playing but it's sad that they don't know that in the future the price will be crazy so almost carts was destroyed by time passed. Nowadays I try to find that cart in excellent condition but it's very hard. I found only 2 carts in excellent condition and complete but the rest have only cart in poor condition and striker was teared :crying:
So I understand as supergoose79 words "many were destroyed".
 
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arcwyvern

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Zupapa was made out of sengoku 3s... That just isn't morally okay. I've always wanted to know these numbers so thanks to everyone chiming in with them. It would be very cool if one day Shawn was able to release definitive numbers on everything sold through the Neostore but I imagine that would spike up the home cart market more than it already is.
 
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