What's America's temperature for another war?

norton9478

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Iran is a country of generally cool people run by a minority of religous zealots.
Israel is a country of generally cool people run by a minority of religious zealots.

No good can come of this.
 

bokmeow

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Iran is a country of generally cool people run by a minority of religous zealots.
Israel is a country of generally cool people run by a minority of religious zealots.

No good can come of this.

The latter isn't really though — it just waves the banner of religiosity, and eager to divert criticisms to its religious extremists in public statements, while doing nothing to stop their 'Price Tag' attacks, and continue to fund settlement building — as if Israeli government funded settlements were somehow less illegal than the outposts (the euphemism used to describe settlements not funded by Israeli government).
 

norton9478

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Yeah, either way...

But all of the Israelis I ever met were cool.

Except the ones that try to sell you hand creme at the mall.
 

bokmeow

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Coming back from a trip to Washington, Netanyahu immediately set out to convince the Israeli Knesset and public opinion to go to war with Iran, invokes the classic armageddon analogy of a second Holocaust.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...eli-public-opinion-for-a-war-on-iran-1.418869

Netanyahu is preparing Israeli public opinion for a war on Iran
In response to Netanyahu's AIPAC speech, Haaretz's editor-in-chief says that what looks like a preparation for war, acts like a preparation for war, and quacks like a preparation for war, is a preparation for war.

By Aluf Benn

Since his return from Washington, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has mainly been preoccupied with one thing: Preparing public opinion for war against Iran.

Netanyahu is attempting to convince the Israeli public that the Iranian threat is a tangible and existential one, and that there is only one effective way to stop it and prevent a "second Holocaust": An Israeli military attack on Iran's nuclear infrastructure, which is buried deep underground.

In his speech before the Knesset on Wednesday, Netanyahu urged his colleagues to reject claims that Israel is too weak to go it alone in a war against a regional power such as Iran and therefore needs to rely on the United States, which has much greater military capabilities, to do the job and remove the threat.

According to polls published last week, this is the position of most of the Israeli public, which supports a U.S. strike on Iran, but is wary of sending the IDF to the task without the backing of the friendly superpower.

Netanyahu presented three examples in which his predecessors broke the American directive and made crucial decisions regarding the future of Israel: the declaration of independence in 1948, starting the Six Day War in 1967 and the bombing of the nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981.

The lesson was clear: Just as David Ben-Gurion, Levi Eshkol and Menachem Begin said "no" to the White House, Netanyahu also needs not be alarmed by President Obama's opposition to an attack on Iran. Netanyahu believes that, as in the previous incidents, the U.S. may grumble at first, but will then quickly adopt the Israeli position and provide Israel with support and backing in the international community.

If Netanyahu had submitted his speech as a term paper to his father the history professor, he would have received a very poor grade. In 1948, the U.S. State Department, headed by George Marshall, opposed the declaration of independence and supported a United Nations trusteeship for Palestine. But President Truman had other considerations.

Like Obama today, Truman was also a democratic president contending for his reelection, who needed the support of the Jewish voters and donors. Under those circumstances, Truman rejected Marshall's advice, and listened to his political adviser Clark Clifford, who pressured him to recognize the Zionist state. And indeed, Truman sent a telegram with an official recognition of Israel just 11 minutes after Ben-Gurion finished reading the Scroll of Independence. The U.S. opposition to the recognition of Israel was halted at the desk of the president, who repelled the explanations by the Secretary of State and the "Arabists" in his office.

In 1967, the official U.S. position called on Israel to hold back and refrain from going to war, but a different message was passing through the secret channels: go "bomb Nasser," reported Levi Eshkol's envoys to Washington, Meir Amit and Avraham Harman. This message tipped the scales in favor of going to war. In 1981, Begin did not bother asking the Americans their opinion before attacking Iraq, but lulled them to sleep and launched a surprise attack.

In these past incidents, Israel acted against the U.S. position formally, but made sure that the Americans will accept the results of the action and support it in retrospect. And indeed, the U.S. recognized Israel in 1948, allowed it to control the territories annexed in 1967, and made do with weak condemnations of the attack on the Iraq nuclear reactor in 1981.

That being the case, then Netanyahu is hinting that in his Washington visit, he received Obama's tacit approval for an Israeli attack against Iran – under the guise of opposition. Obama will speak out against it but act for it, just as the past U.S. administrations speak against the settlements in the territories but allow their expansion. And in this manner Netanyahu summarized the visit: "I presented before my hosts the examples that I just noted before you, and I believe that the first objective that I presented – to fortify the recognition of Israel's right to defend itself – I think that objective has been achieved."

This morning, the editor-in-chief of the Israel Hayom newspaper, Amos Regev, published on his front page an enthusiastic op-ed in support of a war against Iran. Regev writes what Netanyahu cannot say in his speeches: that we cannot rely on Obama – who wasn't even a mechanic in the armored corps - but only on ourselves. "Difficult, daring, but possible," Regev promised. We need not be alarmed by the Iranian response: the arrow would take down the Shahab missiles, and Hezbollah and Hamas would hesitate about entering a war. The damage would be reminiscent of the Iraqi scuds in the 1991 Gulf War - unpleasant, but definitely not too bad. The analysts are weak, but the soldiers and the residents of the Home Front have motivation. So onward, to battle!

To use Netanyahu's "duck allegory", what looks like a preparation for war, acts like a preparation for war, and quacks like a preparation for war, is a preparation for war, and not just a "bluff" or a diversion tactic. Until his trip to Washington, Netanyahu and his supporters in the media refrained from such explicit wording and made do with hints. But since he's been back, Netanyahu has issued an emergency call-up for himself and the Israeli public.
 

SNKorSWM

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The Israeli PM forgot that the US is now owned by China, and China is an ally of Iran. XD
 

Supernaut_

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The Israeli PM forgot that the US is now owned by China, and China is an ally of Iran. XD

The U.S. is not owned by China. The moment we stop buying their rubber dog poop is the moment their economy collapses. People always say that China will be the worlds large economy soon. That is fine and dandy but the average wealth per person in China is FAR lower then that of the Average American.
 

SNKorSWM

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Actually they won't. Chinese gov't just happens to be the largest holder of US debt. If they decide to liquidate our bonds for, say a dime to every dollar, it would be our economy that collapses, because gas prices will sharply increase 10 times.
 
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evil wasabi

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The U.S. is not owned by China. The moment we stop buying their rubber dog poop is the moment their economy collapses. People always say that China will be the worlds large economy soon. That is fine and dandy but the average wealth per person in China is FAR lower then that of the Average American.

your mom's anus is owned by China.
 

SouthtownKid

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The U.S. is not owned by China. The moment we stop buying their rubber dog poop is the moment their economy collapses.
Guess what, Rip Van Winkle? I know you just woke up and everything, but it's not 1971 anymore.
 

Supernaut_

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Actually they won't. Chinese gov't just happens to be the largest holder of US debt. If they decide to liquidate our bonds for, say a dime to every dollar, it would be our economy that collapses, because gas prices will sharply increase 10 times.

They couldn't and wouldn't do that. How can they collect what does not exist? Again our economy and their economy might as well be Siamese twins. If one dies so does the other.

What economy can support China's output if the U.S. no longer purchases out adds a huge tariff like 25% on all imports, that will clear up a lot of issues in terms of debt.
 

evil wasabi

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They couldn't and wouldn't do that. How can they collect what does not exist? Again our economy and their economy might as well be Siamese twins. If one dies so does the other.

What economy can support China's output if the U.S. no longer purchases out adds a huge tariff like 25% on all imports, that will clear up a lot of issues in terms of debt.

You have zero understanding of bonds. All federal bonds are 100% insured. The US would be forced to liquidate any assets it can in order to pay off the loans if any holder of a Federal bond calls them in. China, me, and anyone else who has a bond faces minimal risk. That's why the payoff is not very high, and why the rating is one of the best you can get.

You have zero knowledge of anything political, and it shows. You need to break off from the ignorant people who have surrounded you and find people that actually know things, so that you won't live and die a complete idiot.
 

SSS

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We should relocate Israel to New Jersey. Palestinians will have their place, Jews will have theirs seperated by a vast ocean.

All current NJ residents will be moved to Camden and it will be renamed "New West Bank"
 

evil wasabi

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We should relocate Israel to New Jersey. Palestinians will have their place, Jews will have theirs seperated by a vast ocean.

All current NJ residents will be moved to Camden and it will be renamed "New West Bank"

If the Jerzraelis built a wall around the old residents of New Jersey, they may actually find a lot of national support.
 

Supernaut_

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You have zero understanding of bonds. All federal bonds are 100% insured. The US would be forced to liquidate any assets it can in order to pay off the loans if any holder of a Federal bond calls them in. China, me, and anyone else who has a bond faces minimal risk. That's why the payoff is not very high, and why the rating is one of the best you can get.

You have zero knowledge of anything political, and it shows. You need to break off from the ignorant people who have surrounded you and find people that actually know things, so that you won't live and die a complete idiot.


You have ZERo understanding of the world economy. It is NOT in Chinas best interest to try and "Bankrupt" the U.S.Economy. China itself artificially devalues it's currency to keep their imports cheap and competitive.


I may not have the SAME political ideaology as you but that doesn't mean I lack any knowledge of the fact. You seem to omit a lot of mitigating factors and sanctions the U.S. has.

Again, who would support the Chinese Economy? Not Europe, they are basically broke. Russia? Nope. China has had it with South America and it's return on oil investments. They poured billions down there and have yet to reap any rewards. That's right the U.S.A is the Least Worst to deal with, and China would never call all their bonds, it would destroy them as well. I think you need to calm down and step away from the keyboard for a while. You are loud and bold but you lack and significant tack other then arrogance and name calling, quite immature and so common from an internet keyboard commando.


We should relocate Israel to New Jersey. Palestinians will have their place, Jews will have theirs seperated by a vast ocean.

All current NJ residents will be moved to Camden and it will be renamed "New West Bank"

There is another group of people in Camden that are far more dangerous than the Palestinians and less rational if that is believable.

However Lakewood NJ is all Jews, they should move them there.
 

evil wasabi

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You have ZERo understanding of the world economy. It is NOT in Chinas best interest to try and "Bankrupt" the U.S.Economy. China itself artificially devalues it's currency to keep their imports cheap and competitive.


I may not have the SAME political ideaology as you but that doesn't mean I lack any knowledge of the fact. You seem to omit a lot of mitigating factors and sanctions the U.S. has.

Again, who would support the Chinese Economy? Not Europe, they are basically broke. Russia? Nope. China has had it with South America and it's return on oil investments. They poured billions down there and have yet to reap any rewards. That's right the U.S.A is the Least Worst to deal with, and China would never call all their bonds, it would destroy them as well. I think you need to calm down and step away from the keyboard for a while. You are loud and bold but you lack and significant tack other then arrogance and name calling, quite immature and so common from an internet keyboard commando.

This has nothing to do with political ideology and everything to do with you making factually incorrect statements (re: bonds). Your political ideology likely merely a consequence of being raised by inbred parents. Were you to educate yourself, you might break from the ignorant gene pool that your primate mother shit you into.

Ps: "tack"? Perhaps a Chinese import?
 

Supernaut_

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...says the guy who thinks rubber dog poop is still China's main export.

It used to be Baby Girls and SARS but the times are a changing.




This has nothing to do with political ideology and everything to do with you making factually incorrect statements (re: bonds). Your political ideology likely merely a consequence of being raised by inbred parents. Were you to educate yourself, you might break from the ignorant gene pool that your primate mother shit you into.

Ps: "tack"? Perhaps a Chinese import?


lemy give a you an economics lesson so simple you can understand and try to listen this time.

Chinese export thingys. This is their economy. They sell to USA primarily. Why USA buy? Because Chinese goods cheap although inferior quality. How thingys stay cheap? China buy US dollars to keep demand higher than normal. Less dollars on market means worth more. It do this to keep their goods cheap as US dollar worth more than Yuan. China also fix their economy so no go up in value against the dollar.

If China say fuck you USA and try to dump debt. It'll crash USA economy and currency value, but also make China goods too much money for USA to buy, so no economy for China, Europe too weak to support china 8%+ year growth. Russia no do this neither.

USA only one.

Understand? Now I think you need to get off your parents computer they would get upset if they say you arguing on the internet. You really suck at the internet.
 
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Rot

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Russia no do this neither.

I didn't understand this fiscal statement....

putin.jpg


xROTx
 

evil wasabi

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lemy give a you an economics lesson so simple you can understand and try to listen this time.

Chinese export thingys. This is their economy. They sell to USA primarily. Why USA buy? Because Chinese goods cheap although inferior quality. How thingys stay cheap? China buy US dollars to keep demand higher than normal. Less dollars on market means worth more. It do this to keep their goods cheap as US dollar worth more than Yuan. China also fix their economy so no go up in value against the dollar.

If China say fuck you USA and try to dump debt. It'll crash USA economy and currency value, but also make China goods too much money for USA to buy, so no economy for China, Europe too weak to support china 8%+ year growth. Russia no do this neither.

USA only one.

Understand? Now I think you need to get off your parents computer they would get upset if they say you arguing on the internet. You really suck at the internet.

Does your entire family believe that the US is the only country importing from China? Or are you the only moron?
 

Supernaut_

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Does your entire family believe that the US is the only country importing from China? Or are you the only moron?

I'm sorry sweety are you still trying? The U.S. is the LARGEST buyer of Chinese goods. It does indeed prop up their economy. If no USA buy Chinese thingys, their economy cannot be supported by Europe or any other economy for that matter. Again if China tried to dump USA currency it would indeed severely hurt the US unless they did an emergency credit swap with other nations but all the money that the Chinese held would then become worthless, Chinese goods would no longer be brought to the US so the Chinese economy would collapse. The European economy would collapse, the whole world economy would take a MASSIVE hit. Since the US has far more allies than China trade would open up between the USA and other nations and maybe, just maybe, the US would start exporting goods again.

I like how you didn't even try to argue with my statement on currency and values. Next time you run your mouth make sure you don't pick on someone smarter then you.
 
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T.A.P.

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I don't pretend to be knowledgable about politics, especially those of other countries, but my limited understanding of the situation was that (one of) the reasons for preventing Iran (or any country) from having the capability of producing a nuclear weapon had to do with the concept that proliferation begets proliferation*.

The fear being that if a country were to develope a nuclear weapon, test it, and make a public declaration concerning it, it would give the excuse for neighboring countries to do the same. (Like what happened with the US and USSR, and India and Pakistan).

Some argue that Iran is developing a nuclear weapon (if they in fact are) to counter Israel's nuclear program (if they have one).

But because Israel has not done the three things mentioned above (if it has a nuclear weapons program), Iran does not, from the standpoint of international relations, have the justification for producing a nuclear weapon (if it is developing one).

Do I think Israel has a nuclear weapon? Do I think Iran is trying to build one? My thoughts on those do not matter; I am incapable of influencing any state's policy on the topic. Do I have facts wrong? Probably.

The whole thing is a mess, and I don't have an answer to any of this, but I'm pretty sure that no amount of name-calling, recitation of rhetoric, or use of fallicies (including this one) on a message board originally intended for a 20+ year old video game system will have any real effect on anything. I'm off to get a snack, aware that I've wasted far too much time typing this, and that I am completely incapable of having any effect what-so-ever on the the situation at large, or in even changing anyone's mind.

Goodnight, and may your arguments be shrill and pointless.

Also, if I get banned from here or whatever, please wait to do so until after I finish my two pending transactions on here. I really want to play that copy of Monkey Island 3.

*If I were more tech-savy I would have contained this link within the text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_proliferation#Proliferation_begets_proliferation
 

Lagduf

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Is proliferation a bad thing?

Only a state level organization has the capability to develop a nuclear weapon. "Terrorists" aren't going to get their hands on a nuke.
 

evil wasabi

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I'm sorry sweety are you still trying? The U.S. is the LARGEST buyer of Chinese goods. It does indeed prop up their economy. If no USA buy Chinese thingys, their economy cannot be supported by Europe or any other economy for that matter. Again if China tried to dump USA currency it would indeed severely hurt the US unless they did an emergency credit swap with other nations but all the money that the Chinese held would then become worthless, Chinese goods would no longer be brought to the US so the Chinese economy would collapse. The European economy would collapse, the whole world economy would take a MASSIVE hit. Since the US has far more allies than China trade would open up between the USA and other nations and maybe, just maybe, the US would start exporting goods again.

I like how you didn't even try to argue with my statement on currency and values. Next time you run your mouth make sure you don't pick on someone smarter then you.

There's no reason to argue with you. You're too fucking knowledgeable on the whole world economy. Because as you asked, "how can you collect what doesn't exist?" You know, right before you back-pedaled into some thoughtful argument about how China can't call their bonds early because the US buys so much of their goods, cleverly addressing the fact that China wouldn't start doing this gradually to leverage the US into more development contracts, like the ones that the US imposed on third world countries. Clearly you're too smart.

I'm impressed how you aren't running in circles spouting nonsense. You really know your shit.
 

Poonman

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Oh, he was trying to say TACT. :lolz:

Dude is like the Jedah Doma of politics/economics.

Noob or not, I would have heard out his ideas at the very least... maybe even parse that semi literate shit and look for valid points to agree on or something....

BUT,

his totally dickless cheerleading for war with Iran makes me completely disinterested in anything he has said so far.

He's just another bobbleheaded newsbot repeating the braindead shit he hears on CNN/Fox...

"they hate our freedom",

"they have weapons of mass destruction",

"they are working on a nuke to attack Israel"


Always some dumb soundbite they repeat over and over, hammering it into the thickest skulls in america so jackasses like this guy can get on board and proudly broadcast these absurdities like they were his own ideas.

And why shouldn't he?
He doesn't live in the middle east, nor will he fight in the US army.

He knows nothing of war, little about economics, and jack shit about how fucked his second favorite country (after Israel) really is.

Lets just agree with him so he can go away already.

EDIT: I see Wasabi is already doing this...nice.
 
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SSS

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This fogot is ruining an awesome Black Sabbath song. I hope Iommi sues for lible.
 
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