KoF XIII Port this Winter

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
It's supposed to be a showdown of BADASSES, not a bunch of little girls throwing energy beams at each other.

This is the crux of it for me.

I won't be so naive as to suggest SNK wasn't originally inspired by the anime and manga tropes of their heyday.

But storytelling sensibilities in those mediums have shifted dramatically from the ealry days.

As harem and high school romance animes became more and more popular, SNK started incorporating a lot of this stuff into their games, and they went overboard with it. They were probably benefitting from it financially at the time, but what did it ultimately result in?

It made the games more and more inclusive. They lost their old, reliable identites as they adopted newer, even more niche identities.

And the shame of it is...they could have had it both ways. They could have catered to fans of harem and high school martial arts anime and still retained a good strong 'macho' identity at the same time.

Want proof?

Sakura Kasugano.

A character no one really has a problem with inhabiting the same space with her fellow street fighters. She is a clear anime/manga trope, but she belongs with the Street Fighter cast.

I'll give you an SNK example of the same thing.

Li Xiangfei.

A clear anime trope in the spirit of hong kong cinema.

And despite her immaturity and 'kawaii' nature...she fits in with the cast.

Because the focus is on FIGHTING.

Not on being an uncomfortably young sex symbol in a fighting game.

Wrong idea. And in the wrong medium.

No more witch touching, no more sissies, no more girl friend pillows, no more school girl panty vending machines. That shit isn't cool anymore.

As odd as it feels to be defending this sort of thing, I believe this kind of thing has a place. It's fine for people that like it.

But the classic SNK IPs shouldn't be prostituted out to these ends.

No more fucking dating sims.

No more licensing to Queen's Blade.

Make up new characters that don't tarnish the original properties.

Even Mai, who's three quarters naked, deserves better treatment.

It's embarrassing to see her and Nakoruru licensed out to garbage like Queen's Blade simply because SNK wants to whore her out to yet another group of miserable, shut in otaku.
 

thatdemoguy

Guerilla Warrior,
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Posts
1,929
OMG I know this is the dumbest thing to be excited about but I decided to pop in the ost that came with it and im so happy that the tracks are lengthy! I have always hated when games came with soundtracks and the tracks were only like a min long.

O.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
Just out of curiosity, how did you get your copy early?
 

thatdemoguy

Guerilla Warrior,
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Posts
1,929
I used to help run a mom&pop shop and even after they closed their doors I stayed in contact with them and the distributors. I got the msg that I could order it yesterday for delivery today so I jumped all over it.

O.
 

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,940
As odd as it feels to be defending this sort of thing, I believe this kind of thing has a place. It's fine for people that like it.

No, you're right and I don't disagree with you on that point. And I'm aware that I'm coming off as a braindead hardliner...so I'd like to apologize to anyone I offend (including saner).

A cross section of pop culture references both new and old, from both sides of the pond IS the best way to go. It keeps things fresh and it has the potential to reach a wider audience.


The one thing I am vehemently attacking is the influence of sunlight fearing basement dwellers on SNKPs last remaining franchise.

I want it to resonate with a wider audience...even at the expense of shunning a few die hard "fans" who seem to be in it for the wrong reason anyway.
 
Last edited:

saner

Krauser's Henchman
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Posts
927
Yeah, hi-5s to Shito on this one.

I don't want to sound mean, *long post* etc.

Well your comment entirely sounds sexist and extremely blinded by religious and political influences.

Oh yea, so people like Joe and Gai Tendo can show three quarters of their skin, but characters like Mai shouldn't?? She's a female ninja with their own traditions and culture they follow!
That doesn't make them a sex object, only to the ignorant that only see their own society/culture, which has been misguided and influenced by politics and religion, as something forbidden.

What the hell kind of Hulk Hogan He-Man Cubscout world you come from, labeling KOF women designs as prostitutes and sex symbols just because of how much skin they expose or what they wear??

And you voice having a problem with little girls but I don't see anything about you having a problem with little boys or geezers past their prime.

Women don't need a "macho identity to fit in a fighting theme". That's flawed logic from people who spend too much time in the men's locker room. Fighters are fighters, regardless of appearance.

Okay, so Momoko can be considered to be standing on the fine line between fighter and absolute cuteness, but her gameplay and style in KOFXI have proven to make her a unique and interesting fighter, especially for skilled players that don't like stupid-easy to learn spammed characters like Kyo and K'.

And since you bring up the subject of little girls, do you have a problem with Kula too, who despite being 14, still has the nature and style of a pure fighter. And Kula is fully covered up to the neck. So choirboys shouldn't have any issues with that. Female fighters can be beautiful and still be strong.

more skin exposure or pretty clothes =/= sex object.

When you have to rebuilt from scratch a franchise and a 15yo series you start from the classics, not out of some fanciful new face.

KOF wouldn't be as great as it is without new faces in the selection. Recycling just the classics isn't going to help expand the KOF universe further into fresh horizons.

Most classics don't even have as much significance to the KOF timeline compared to the original faces that push it forward.

XIII already has the main standard classic KOF characters/teams anyways. Sure it's missing some demanded favorites like old Outlaw team, but times have changed. Blue Mary isn't hanging with Yamazaki and Billy anymore, she's with the Agents group now.
All in all, it would take more than two KOFs to add "everyone".

Sure, add more classic favorites in dreammatches, but KOFXIII was meant to tell a climax of a saga, and from a antagonists standpoint, it falls short compared to Orochi clan and NESTS cartel which had more new faces deeply involved in the gameplay and story.
What's the point of a evil organization in a fighting tournament without all the main antagonists fighting? TFTDL are more than human and powerful on top of that, so they already qualify since they are credited as a powerful clan and the European equivalent of the Orochi clan.

Yes, to the pure KOF gamer, story is secondary, but people can't deny story is what gives fighting games and characters more depth, history and purpose, and channels those qualities through the gameplay itself!

story in itself, is what helped KOF develop so many new favorites, from Iori in KOF95, to Leona/Vice/Mature/Chizuru/Goenitz in KOF96, to Chris, Yashiro, Shermie, Orochi in 97, to K', Whip, Maxima, Krizalid, Kula, Mukai, and beyond. Where would these characters be without the story that gave them life?

I'm glad KOFXIII was at least able to present a great new final boss (true Saiki) but much of the organization that gives this saga purpose and a real threat to fight, have been left unused from their potential and that's why XIII isn't as climactic as it could have been and doesn't offer as many new fresh fighters to stand out more from the other fighting games that already have those characters.
 
Last edited:

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,434
I used to help run a mom&pop shop and even after they closed their doors I stayed in contact with them and the distributors. I got the msg that I could order it yesterday for delivery today so I jumped all over it.

O.

that's what's up. I tried to get gamestop to break the street date but they didn't have it in yet.

lol@saner...
 

Shito

King of Typists,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Posts
9,353
Someone tell Saner I'm way into anime and manga (since is my professional job since 15+ years), someone tell him I'm into KOF story like a nutso and like few others, neverless...

...there must be a balance in things, yeah?

To me, the very first derailed character in KOF has been Hinako Shijo, a stupid parodical pun just seeming fresh out of Ranma 1/2.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
You can't tell a person who has Momoko in their sig to understand the need for such characters to be removed from KOF.

So let's all just agree that we're right about this and look forward to this Tuesday, when the majority of us will be able to enjoy a fully realized KOF that doesn't have quite so many stupid and useless characters in it.
 

thatdemoguy

Guerilla Warrior,
Joined
Jul 12, 2003
Posts
1,929
OK my contribution to the debate is this (sorry if its not articulate, im driving):

Momoko and Malin are just uninspired female designs that don't belong in KoF ever again, that's my opinion. It was around the time they came around (along with that one super otaku girl, can't remember her name at the moment) that I started to wonder what direction the series was going in. I just felt like the series was losing its distinct personality and was catering to a whole other casual audience. examples of females who were done right by SNK include Mai, Blue Mary, Shermie, and King. Every one of them felt like they fit with the theme of the game. They also exuded their own personality and charm that didn't feel out of place.

Now unrelated to the debate I gotta say

Gamestop is full of shit! They try to say the cd was exclusive to them if you preorder. Well all 8 copies I got today came with the ost shrink wrapped to it. Meaning they come from the publisher that way. Which makes me question what do they do with all of the copies they get? do they slice them open and keep the bonuses?
 

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,940
What the hell kind of Hulk Hogan He-Man Cubscout world you come from, labeling KOF women designs as prostitutes and sex symbols just because of how much skin they expose or what they wear??

Haha, nice try.
Glad to see some fight in you but.....

The Hulk hogan, he-man, cubscout world I came from is called the 80s.
Same place SNK and Capcom came from.


And you voice having a problem with little girls but I don't see anything about you having a problem with little boys or geezers past their prime.

If you put words into my mouth, I'll spit them right back at you.


Little boys (like Bao) are just as horrible if not moreso.
Kids are terrible fighters, dude...I could probably take on 40 kids in hand to hand combat and fucking annihilate every last one of them....kids just aren't cool.

They can't do anything worthwhile and they are annoying, shit...would you take your car to a kid mechanic or let one build your house?

Why would I want one fighting for me in a video game lol?

Saner, you silly goose.....




Geezers on the other hand are fine, they fit into the fite game rubric I established in earlier posts.

Geezers in karate movies are usually the most dangerous ones to look out for. What with their ancient wisdom and mystical oriental powarz....


Women are ok too, Mai is great as well....she underwent a totally pervy redesign as of KOF 1995 but I'm ok with that.

I'd make an exception for her, but female fighters are at their best when they actually LOOK like fighters instead of fap material.


Anyway...you seem to come from another world (or a different generation?), so I'm not sure if I or anyone else can get through to you.

If you like Momoko....that's fine, let them put in Momoko. But when you start adding even more "Momokos" like Shroom, Botan, Rimelo, you're in the dangerous territory of creeping people out and turning people off of your games.
 
Last edited:

saner

Krauser's Henchman
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Posts
927
I agree Malin isn't so necessary, but Hinako is definitely cool.
I guess people hate her because she takes more skill to use than Daimon.

EDIT: BOTAN IS NOT MOMOKO material. She could pass for late 20's/early 30's. In that case you might as well dump King and Vanessa in that same boat!


Anyways some interesting news from early players, they say KOF96 remake stage is included online and
is randomly chosen (they are not sure if it's a glitch or intentional),

they describe it as being better than the KOF-i version "has more animations, is a beautiful stage, specially the SNK building at night.The best part is that even in the highway part there is people walkin and cars running" And they said something about Haohmaru appearing in Round 4.
 
Last edited:

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,940
Saner, you need to grab a case of beer and make a movie night for yourself.

Watch some shit like:

Big Trouble in Little China
Master of the Flying Guillotine
The Karate Kid
Bloodsport
Best of the Best 1 & 2
Game of Death
Fist of Legend
The Protector

And so on, and so forth.

Most of these movies are godawful, but they might give you insight on where I'm coming from and more importantly, where I'M NOT coming from (like woman hating and chauvinism).
You'd see familiar themes of a generic hero fighting his way through colorful characters with different fighting styles, then finally reaching the oversized "endboss" who was either Russian, German, or anyone else America didn't like at the time.

Is this old shit still relevant? MK and SF are still making money off the formula so I'd like to think so.


Not just the formula but identifiable personalities as well.
Ryu is Mas Oyama, Abel is Fedor, Balrog is Tyson, M. Bison is Pinochet, Liu Kang is Bruce Lee, Goro is Bolo Yeung....

Ash Crimson is?

Exactly.


FINAL EDIT:

This is what fighting games are about, lest we forget.
 
Last edited:

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
26,898
Everybody has their favorite characters, and that's cool, even if I don't understand some of them. But what I don't get about Saner is why he/she has 3 pictures in his/her sig, 2 of which are so blurry I have no idea what they are supposed to be. Other shots of Momoko? Maybe the middle one. But can anyone identify what that third shot is? the one that inexplicably includes a magenta stripe at the top?
 

saner

Krauser's Henchman
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Posts
927
Saner, you need to grab a case of beer and make a movie night for yourself.

Watch some shit like:

Big Trouble in Little China
Master of the Flying Guillotine
The Karate Kid
Bloodsport
Best of the Best 1 & 2
Game of Death
Fist of Legend

And so on, and so forth.
Most of these movies are godawful, but they might give you an idea of where some of us are coming from and where I'M NOT coming from (like women hating and chauvinism).
You'd see a recurring themes of a hero fighting his way through colorful characters with different fighting styles, then finally reaching the oversized "endboss".

That's why street fighter and MK are still going strong after all these years; Identifiable personalities.
Ryu is Mas Oyama, Abel is Fedor, Balrog is Tyson, M. Bison is Pinochet, Liu Kang is Bruce Lee, Goro is Bolo Yeung....

Momoko is?

Exactly.

your overdependance from those movie influences clouds your judgement of KOF fighters. They are better standing out representing themselves instead of following some movie/TV celebrity archetypes.

It's a videogame so there's definitely more room for creative freedom than just trying to be realistic like UFC or old school martial arts cinema like Bloodsport.

If fighting games really were only inspired by those movies/people, there wouldn't even be any female fighters in the mix.

Well Kickboxer 4 did have about 2 female fighters in a tournament. But aside from that, I think some fans expect KOF to be too much like the movies/celebrities they grew up watching.

I'm not saying it should go all Sailor Moon with it either, but people really blow things out of proportion when it comes to girls in fighting games.

KOFXIII doesn't even have Malin, Momoko or Hinako so what are people complaining about?! Well I agree they made Yuri's design too childish compared to her more mature, stronger and superior appearance in KOF 94, 95, 96, etc.

It would be great if Kasumi comes back, though. I'm sure Kasumi Todo is one fighter everyone respects. :)
 
Last edited:

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,940
Everybody has their favorite characters, and that's cool, even if I don't understand some of them. But what I don't get about Saner is why he/she has 3 pictures in his/her sig, 2 of which are so blurry I have no idea what they are supposed to be. Other shots of Momoko? Maybe the middle one. But can anyone identify what that third shot is? the one that inexplicably includes a magenta stripe at the top?

That's Momoko in KOF XI's white town stage.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,434
Mai was way better when she was the only chick in the game. But then as other females were introduced, they became less interesting. KoF was way better when there was a girls team, and the rest of the cast were dudes. It's not about chauvinism, but that of contrast to draw out appreciation. After a while, when you already have a female ninja, lady cop, and military woman, you need to dig deeper in the barrel and find female bartender, little sister with down syndrome, raver girl with a yoyo.

neutral-suspicious-s.png


Hell with Kasumi. She was lame.

sometimes I lauge at saner. It's an uncomfortable laugh, in the Japanese style.
 

Poonman

macebronian
15 Year Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2004
Posts
9,940
Biased opinions aside, the best thing I can say in defense of my opinion is that everyone knows what Street Fighter is and nobody cares about Melty Blood...not even the guys who were supposed to care about it.


I don't like boring UFC based realism either, but zany off the wall shit usually hurts KOFs credibility more than it helps.
Anyway, I've said everything I care to say and sorry to everyone for spraying mental diarrhea all over this thread.

Have a nice weekend, gents!
 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
26,898
I liked Kasumi in SvC. Inasmuch as I could enjoy the game. But her play style was fun, and I always enjoy counter characters.

Other female characters I enjoy are:

Vanessa. An improved version of RB2 Rick. If the character had been brought into KOF as Rick, I would have liked it just as much. It's the play style more than anything that is the draw of the character for me, although I do like the design and voice. My favorite boxer in fighters.

Mary. Some versions more than others, and I do tend to like her Fatal Fury incarnations better than her KOF versions. But again, I like counter characters.

Shermie. My second-favorite KOF grappler. And again, I love characters with counters.

Angel. Fuck this is a fun character. Complicated to use but so much variety. All that Unchain Circle stuff. I can have fun for hours doing nothing but messing around against the computer with those.

For whatever reason, I've never enjoyed playing as Mai in KOF.
 

Shito

King of Typists,
20 Year Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2002
Posts
9,353
Well, of course Athena is *the* SNK icon, so she deserves a place in Any KOF. :)
 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
26,898
She does, because KOF was created to be an SNK all-star game, and she qualifies as part of SNK's rich, pre-Neo Geo history. So yeah, she should be in every KOF.

That said, she has always annoyed the shit out of me. I can't stand her, her voice, or her pop idol persona.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
Not sailor fuku Athena.

I like the earlier costume designs. I liked the kung fu sensibilities of the design, even though she used lots of psychic powers.

I didn't even care that she was an idol singer back in Japan. The team China roster was very silly back in those days, and pushed the boundaries of what I consider acceptable storytelling, even for a fighting game.

But I liked it. It seemed to fit.

Sailor fuku Athena can fuku off.

Looking at the roster, I actually like a majority of the KOF roster's women. I can just do without stupid characters like Momoko, Malin and Hinako. Their ilk, if you will.
 
Top