Simulated scanlines on LCD/LED displays.

beh3moth

beh3moth

Robert "Helmet" Patrick
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I'm thinking of consolizing my MVS board, its sitting in a drawer unused and unloved right now. However, I would like to simulate scanlines somehow because standard RGB looks like crap though an LCD display.

Anyone know of a device that enables this?
 
shadows

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Only use the code that comes after this bit ?v= in the youtube brackets.
 
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supergoose

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not sure. what would it look like if there were such problems?

i had a problem with some flickering but got rid of most of it. it's hardly noticeable, when you're playing a game.
 
Official Ninja

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I use a scart cable with my Neo and the XRGB 2+ but when I turn on scan lines, it just looks like its making the picture too dim... for lack of a better word. Its so clear and sharp @ 720p on my LG LCD, I can't see wanting to keep scan lines on with my setup.
 
Electric Grave

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Personally as long as the sprites are clean I don't mind the look on LCD screens. Out of topic but relevant, when I use emulation on computer screens I always opt for no filters, no grids, no scanlines. To me this is the way the games were designed, you're missing half the screen when you bring scanlines into the picture, plus most scanline simulators have scrolling problems, specially on non-tated vert scrolling games like Strikers 1945+. My 2 cents.
 
Artemio

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I would disagree with that ElectricGrave.. the games are designed with scanlines in mind. Not the rest of filters though.

The games are rendered and designed in 240p, we all know that. The CRT working on NTSC is 480i, drawing a progressive image by skipping every other line. It is a 15khz signal in a 31khz carrier, that means that each pixel horizontally is drawn twice and vertically only every other line. Scanlines are either part of the signal or you should play in 320x240 without filters.
 
Electric Grave

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Scanlines are great on CRTs 'cause they are "natural" anything recreated on any LCD or high rez monitor just looks odd. Are the games design with scanlines in mind? I dunno, I think not but that's just how I see it. Wether we prefer one thing or another, I preffer sticking to a screen intended capabilities, it just works better that way. Scanline effects don't always work as intended. I commend all the good work you do, but hey we all have our thing.
 
beh3moth

beh3moth

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ElectricGrave said:
Scanlines are great on CRTs 'cause they are "natural" anything recreated on any LCD or high rez monitor just looks odd. Are the games design with scanlines in mind? I dunno, I think not but that's just how I see it. Wether we prefer one thing or another, I preffer sticking to a screen intended capabilities, it just works better that way. Scanline effects don't always work as intended. I commend all the good work you do, but hey we all have our thing.
Click to expand...

Neo-Geo games look crappy in pure direct-to-TV RGB on an LCD screen.
They need upscaling and scanlines. Just check out shadows and explosions, quite often they will appear with horizontal lines of colour missing, this is definately because the developers were trying to squeeze as much performance out of the system as they could and optimised the game to work with scanlines.

Why spend processing power drawing shit that is never going to be on screen?

I do agree that scanlines might be hard to apply to an LCD screen, I have had all sorts of trouble getting them to look somewhat authentic with Mame on my laptop.
 
Electric Grave

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Dude, I've played Neo on VGA CRT, LCD via component, LCD via VGA through an RGB pass through and on the regular MAME PC computer displays, never had a problem. I know what you're talking about and I've seen that only on ports and on other signal convertions other than RGB, like composite and s-video.

Pixel sprites are not made a certain way to deal with scanlines, they are just designed that way 'cause of the limits technology presented during certain times, otherwise we would have been playing games with seemingly hand drawn art since day one. Scanlines are great but damn going through all that trouble for scanlines and justifying them as being part of a game seems a bit far fetched.
 
Hewitson

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beh3moth said:
Neo-Geo games look crappy in pure direct-to-TV RGB on an LCD screen.
They need upscaling and scanlines. Just check out shadows and explosions, quite often they will appear with horizontal lines of colour missing, this is definately because the developers were trying to squeeze as much performance out of the system as they could and optimised the game to work with scanlines.
Click to expand...
No it's not. It's because the shitty TV is displaying a progressive signal as interlaced.
 
beh3moth

beh3moth

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Hewitson said:
No it's not. It's because the shitty TV is displaying a progressive signal as interlaced.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Ok from what I hear you are somewhat of a technical wizard so I won't get into an argument :hammer:

But If I run my MVS attached to a jamma rig that is a simple RGB straight from the harness to a SCART plug this cannot be progressive right? Or not right? :conf:
 
White Devil

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Anyone heard of the RetroVGA 2? priced @ $32.50 versus the SLG3000 from $60-$80 seems like a great deal. I for one have a fiance who is going crazy from my collecting, so she might die if i bring my bulky ass CRT into our apartment. Not to mention, playing on a 42 inch plasma with that beautiful color saturation and scanlines, sounds amazing, thinking about it made my balls get heavier.
 
shadows

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Since the eagle files are available for this RetroVGA scanline generator. I'm thinking of getting a PCB manufactured to save myself some money.
The shop that I use does runs in batches of 3, which means I would have 2 extra PCBs available. So is there anyone else that would be interested in a bare PCB? I'd sell them at cost, $10 CDN each shipped.
Purple PCB with gold plating.
 
White Devil

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shadows said:
Since the eagle files are available for this RetroVGA scanline generator. I'm thinking of getting a PCB manufactured to save myself some money.
The shop that I use does runs in batches of 3, which means I would have 2 extra PCBs available. So is there anyone else that would be interested in a bare PCB? I'd sell them at cost, $10 CDN each shipped.
Purple PCB with gold plating.
Click to expand...


Count me in :)
 
shadows

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Forgot to mention but this would be for a bare PCB only, no components included.
 
White Devil

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shadows said:
Forgot to mention but this would be for a bare PCB only, no components included.
Click to expand...

I thought you were clear on that. On second thought, I will take both of the access PCB's if you are only interested in the one. I have something additional in mind.
 
HeavyMachineGoob

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Artemio said:
I would disagree with that ElectricGrave.. the games are designed with scanlines in mind. Not the rest of filters though.

The games are rendered and designed in 240p, we all know that. The CRT working on NTSC is 480i, drawing a progressive image by skipping every other line. It is a 15khz signal in a 31khz carrier, that means that each pixel horizontally is drawn twice and vertically only every other line. Scanlines are either part of the signal or you should play in 320x240 without filters.
Click to expand...

If we want to get picky about it, video game graphics are nothing more than data. To a programmer, or perhaps the guy who has to import the graphics into the game, it's all digital with no forward thinking applied to the TV output. For standard graphics with no tricks, they were all probably designed with no filters or scanlines in mind. Most companies used actual computer monitors to develop graphics, which have hard to see scanlines if any. Some graphical tricks, like fake transparency, were designed around the composite video signal and naturally anti-aliasing of a CRT, yes, but that's an exception, not a rule, since it's just a graphical trick.
 
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