161-in-1 Game Breakdown

alby13

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Sure, but you may wonder why such a large number instead of the original ones. I see no reason for it.

The reason for most of the hacks is simple. Each fighting game usually has one hack that has the Boss characters able to be selected from the start, much like Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition let you play the 4 Bosses, Sagat, Balrog, Vega, and M. Bison
 

Neodogg

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I agree with this, AeroFighter3 works, bullets disappear! WW7, League Bowling, Pop N' Bounced worked,that is all I got to test tonight. Seems like we only need one with Magician Lord & Ninja Masters.

Yea good luck,i would contact the seller. Pretty reliable,i got mine in earlier today and i'll say,it's a pretty good companion to the 161-in-1.
 

skinny503

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The reason for most of the hacks is simple. Each fighting game usually has one hack that has the Boss characters able to be selected from the start, much like Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition let you play the 4 Bosses, Sagat, Balrog, Vega, and M. Bison

Okay I knew M. Bison and Sagat were bosses but I didnt think the other two were! Now I am gonna find the street fighter movie and give it to someone for christmas :D
 

Jonny l3lanka

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Okay I knew M. Bison and Sagat were bosses but I didnt think the other two were! Now I am gonna find the street fighter movie and give it to someone for christmas :D

Please get the animated movie and not that Van Damme shit! :thevt:
 

Vigormortis

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Here's a list of issues I've read about and personally noticed with the 161 in 1 cart
Samurai Shodown: Music is missing some channels, Kyoshiro's sprite is messed up and warps around screen.
Samurai Shodown II: Music is messed up.
Garou Mark of the Wolves: Kim Jae Hoon's TOP move crashes game, some timings are off, game endings have messed up text.
Aero Fighters 3: Bullets freeze on screen and bosses can become unkillable.
Last Blade 2: I've seen this reset spontaneously.

That having been said, the 161 still the cart that spends the most time in my CMVS. It's just really convenient and has a huge selection of games. I'd still recommend it, but just know that out of the 98 unique games on the cartridge, 5 have serious issues that I know of.... and these 5 games are kind of a big deal for many people :P.
 
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Billkwando

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The reason for most of the hacks is simple. Each fighting game usually has one hack that has the Boss characters able to be selected from the start, much like Street Fighter 2 Champion Edition let you play the 4 Bosses, Sagat, Balrog, Vega, and M. Bison

Also, I believe I read that the hacks take up less room cos they share a lot of data with the non-hack versions of the same games.

Here's a list of issues I've read about and personally noticed with the 161 in 1 cart
Samurai Shodown: Music is missing some channels, Kyoshiro's sprite is messed up and warps around screen.
Samurai Shodown II: Music is messed up.
Garou Mark of the Wolves: Kim Jae Hoon's TOP move crashes game, some timings are off, game endings have messed up text.
Aero Fighters 3: Bullets freeze on screen and bosses can become unkillable.
Last Blade 2: I've seen this reset spontaneously.

That having been said, the 161 still the cart that spends the most time in my CMVS. It's just really convenient and has a huge selection of games. I'd still recommend it, but just know that out of the 98 unique games on the cartridge, 5 have serious issues that I know of.... and these 5 games are kind of a big deal for many people :P.

Yeah the missing sounds in Samsho 2 make it unplayable for me. Fortunately, I have it on homecart & regular-ass MVS. I've had random resets and unibios error on a lot of the high meg games, though that may have something to do with my particular MVS board, cos they usually act fine with my MVS converter.
 
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Yodd

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what is stopping someone from reverse engineering one of these and putting all the games (with correct rom files) on it?


Seems like that is the next logical step since it's apparent that these Hong Kong bootleggers ain't gonna do it anytime soon.
 

Billkwando

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what is stopping someone from reverse engineering one of these and putting all the games (with correct rom files) on it?

A lot.

DavidG was working on that at one point. I'd have to go back and read his messages (it's been years), but I believe he said it wouldn't be possible to fit every single game on one cart (almost though) but that you could conceivably replace the roms with solid working ones and get rid of the hacks. I think another issue is that the chips have so many tiny fragile pins (or maybe that they're difficult to source?). Anyway, apparently there's a bunch of reasons why it can't be perfect, but the right person with an eprom burner could probably make improved multicarts using the boards from 161s (IIRC).

Edit:

I'm poking around in my old messages, and figured I'd post the pertinent info here and people can either find it useful or contradict it, but at least it'll be out there if it's not in any other threads.

The carts are a scam. I think they are great and I was playing viewpoint on your converter for a bit with the 150. But its not really a 150-1 cart. They load in KOF then add in all the hacked program roms which are 1m-4m which uses the same gfx, sound and m1/s1 files. So is it really 2 games? I wouldn't say so. This is why there are no all-in-1 carts because we're missing half the mem to do it. Now there should be 2 carts in total, that would work.

On the possibility of a flash cart type device for the Neo (like the old Multi Game Doctors):

In the end the neo is just a more powerful sega genesis. A SMS or SG, even a snes copier runs off the same basics. Where things get more difficult is the software. In the link you showed me the guy who wrote it limited it to only read games upto the max he knows. Neo games go way beyond that but the design is sound and would work. Next issue is a neo cart when compaired to a SMS or snes, gen, tgx or any rom cart is that a neo is split into several sections. Normally a rom cart is one chip, a neo has one for M, S, sound, program and gfx.

If you took that software and removed the limiting factor so it would read as much as it found and then made 5 readers so the software would read them one by one, it would work.

So you make 5 readers - 1) Program, 2) Sound, 3) Gfx, 4) M1, 5) S1 - all of them on one board. Then you run them into logic like a 4 or 6 slot does with the enable pin controlled manually or controlled by the pc program (more on that in a moment). From the logic you would run them into the cart slots. Load up the software and it would just read one bank at a time, it wouldn't know the difference between 1 neo cart vs reading 5 snes games in volume.

To make one that everyone would love to use would all be controlled by sw, just pop in the cart and rip it. If you wanted to make one without complex hardware or software you use a manual switch. Switch it to program, rip it and name it as Px, switch it to sound, rip it and save it as Vx....until you have them all.

That asshole in the forums that was all over my post is right and wrong at the same time. Sram carts do draw a lot of power and trying to run one with a coin battery wouldn't work well. But at the same time we don't care to hold the cart data forever since we can reload it within mins. We could use the mvs as a model and use a much larger rechargable battery which would hold the rom for a good hour or two which is more then enough time to move it from a pc to any system. Once on the cart would recharge the battery. Not a big deal.

It's possible, not easy but possible. Now would anyone pay the price to get one when the 150 and 160-in-1 carts are so cheap?

On the differences between the 150 and the 161:

At first glance they are the same however the model numbers are different. From the images I can't tell exactly what has been changed, could have been something as simple as moving one trace. The cost to make new boards means it was important.

The 161 and the 150 have the same amount of memory and there is more then enough space left to get the last few neo games on there. Don't be too shocked when the 170, 180 and 200's come down the line. They don't have to do anything different just add a few more chips to the mix.


On dumping the multicart:

I have not dumped the multicart due to the roms they use. My reader can take any chip ever made but no one has made the needed adapter for these chips. Finding a newer programmer that works with these chips has also been tricky, hell finding a datasheet on them is hard....I've not yet found one. If I can find the datasheet I should be able to rig my reader to work as mine does support the next step down from these. All we need is time


More issues involved with reproducing the multicart:

About the multi cart - those 70 pin chips are a bitch. No one has them for sale and no one has any datasheets. What I have been able to find is a japanese company who sells a very costly programmer that can work with all the chips used in these carts. The cost will be $2k for the programmer and adapter.

The 151-in-1 uses 26 Gigabit of chips which works out to be a 26,640 Meg game. The system never directly has access to all of that at once but it's still the largest neo game ever made. The 161-in-1 should be using the exact same boards only with a few more chips. I need pictures.

The 150-in-1 can max out at 38 Gigs and all the extra space is tied up in gfx roms. The true limit of the board is the sound data as they didn't make room for anymore. Based on how they are getting these to work they could make a program board that looks a lot like the gfx they use now and include every neo game ever made without any problems.


What I was trying to remember earlier:

One thing of interest, I was able to grab that custom programmer I spoke of a long time ago and I should have a dump of the 150 and 161 multicarts by the end of the month. With any luck we can get some of the sw guys on board to rewrite the code to get rid of the hacks and perhaps change the game list.

Knowing how the hw runs we won't be able to rewrite the logic so think of the hw having 161 slots with predefined size. We can't change the size or location but we can change whats stored there. That being said we should be able to make 2 carts to hold every game without any hacks. It would also be possible to make a set of them one for each type of game like one for fighters, one for shooters. They went through a great deal of trouble to stop us from dumping the code.

The final piece of that I was trying to remember earlier (which apparently I remember pretty well, considering this was a couple years ago, lol):

The hardware supports 5 times more memory than is current used. It can be done for sure but the exact logic of how the altera's work may not be possible to figure out. Those altera's were designed to be fairly hard to impossible to crack. Easier method would be to leave the 161 as is from a hw point of view and simply swap the titles around. On average you're looking at 96 per cart so two will cover the collection easy. It may also be possible to code a better menu where you can't see the hacks by default but can select the option to view all to see them since we have the room to add them in.

Without much software help I should be able to swap out the proto or bad rom sets to make a fully working multicart.


I don't know if this is of much use, but it's certainly an interesting read, and hopefully will make folks think twice before asking for a minor miracle, in the absence of documentation or a major breakthrough by some really big brains. :D
 
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xsq

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thanks for the insights. How long ago was that? 2 carts with the whole library (of working roms) on them would still be pretty damn cool...
(and a better way for DG to spend his time instead of ripping people off)
 

SNKorSWM

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With all the neo ROMz on MAME I'm surprised no one has been making one so far. They sure came up with the NGX version SD card in a hurry.
 

BladeDancer314

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I have one of these carts and will try it out as soon as I get my 2 slot board to make it a cmvs
 

IrishNinja

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damn, pretty enlightening thread - i wasn't expecting perfection from the 105/168 but hearing stuff like no Windjammers etc is a huge bummer. my plan was to get a supergun or consolized MVS & just grab the best of these options until i came across more legit MVS carts at a good price, still seems like my best bet for the time.
 

MtothaJ

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damn, pretty enlightening thread - i wasn't expecting perfection from the 105/168 but hearing stuff like no Windjammers etc is a huge bummer. my plan was to get a supergun or consolized MVS & just grab the best of these options until i came across more legit MVS carts at a good price, still seems like my best bet for the time.

The 161 is no doubt missing several important games, but its still a solid buy nevertheless. Economically it makes more than perfect sense and anyway, changing carts is a chore, especially if you have a cab.
 

Hodor

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MtothaJ

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It has a fantastic price comparing with the Ebay ones. Unfortunately, if I order it from Spain, the customs taxes and fees would rise the price considerably.

Many countries only charge customs / taxes above a certain threshold e.g. 50 USD so if the customs declaration would read e.g. 'used electronics board, $20' its possible that you would not be subject to any additional charges.
 

BladeDancer314

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I noticed last night that when I used my 161-1 cart all the games had the same neo-geo splash screen, the original one.

I was expecting the newer titles to have the gigapower splash.

am I totally crazy here guys?
 
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