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Thread: Konami Metamorphic Force PCB - No Sound

  1. #1
    Nerdygrrl's Boy Toy
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    Konami Metamorphic Force PCB - No Sound

    So I picked up an allegedly 100% working metamorphic force board, but there is no sound. Turns out its one of the games with the infamous custom konami chips that are known to leak and mess up the sound.

    I picked up the board on ebay so I didnt remove all the black coating from the top of the chip yet, in case I return it. Looking at the pic it appears to have leaked correct?

    I only tested the mono out through the jamma. Is there any chance it could work with stereo out but not mono out. Or is it safe to assume if the mono doesnt work the stereo wont either. My blast isnt set up for stereo out through the four prong set up or I would of tested that tonight.

    The seller claimed to have tested all his boards for an hour each. I am wondering if he just plugged it in real quick to make sure the roms checked out okay and didnt test the sound.




  2. #2
    Choi's Barber
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    I'd say that would definitely be for stereo as well, look how close it is to the connector.

    Unfortunately that thing looks well and truly fucked. Hopefully someone has a spare they can donate.

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    Nerdygrrl's Boy Toy
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    Hmm, thanks

    He said he tested it in mono on a converted gauntlet cab and it worked fine. Which is odd considering the dipswitch was on stereo when I got it.

  4. #4
    The Portuguese Chop OMFG's Avatar
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    The way you'll know if this custom IC is about to take a dump is the volume seems very low on the highest setting. I've got a spare Violent Storm board and I'm going to try to take all that black crap off and rejumper any jacked up traces on my board. The capacitors are Fujitsu MB3722.


    Another fix is to find another Custom IC, but they are starting to become harder to find.

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  5. #5
    CPS2 Person.
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    If you find a working donor for transplant it takes surgical precision to remove and resolder without breaking the chip. The procedure is most definitely not for novices or faint at heart.

    Recapping a bad custom chip is 4 times as harder as the process described above as it requires successfully removing the flanky custom IC then scrapping away the epoxy coating gently which is 6 hours work then recapping the chip. I have only pulled this off once.

    A metaqmorphic force and violent storm are most certainly worth saving as they are both rare titles.

    Don't be scared people in a collector environment the dielectric of those cap should not wear off in your life time as long as your not running your cab 24/7 which none of us do.


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  6. #6
    JammaNationX
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    Yup, those things are decieving. I had 2 xmen boards and 1 had no red and the other no sound so I tried to remove the custom ic. Took my time making sure all the solder was removed from the pins and as soon as I tried to lift it the thing cracked in half. It's made of a very brittle material.

    I'm surprised no one ever reconstructed one before. I think they'd sell like hotcakes.

  7. #7
    Nerdygrrl's Boy Toy
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    It would be great if someone stepped up and reverse engineered one.

    Nice job Konami, you should of put on a Dallas suicide battery while they were at it .

    So is it a good idea to cap a board if its fully working with no signs of damage? I have a X-Men board that currently works fine but dont want it to go out on me.

  8. #8
    CPS2 Person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gum_drops View Post
    It would be great if someone stepped up and reverse engineered one.

    Nice job Konami, you should of put on a Dallas suicide battery while they were at it .

    So is it a good idea to cap a board if its fully working with no signs of damage? I have a X-Men board that currently works fine but dont want it to go out on me.
    You don't need to totally reverse engineer the chip, you just need a understanding of its layout. The chip has a fragile ceramic enclosure that has CUSTOM konami chips entombed inside so the true goal here is salvage. Basically all I need is a intact chip and access to a electron microscope to do a pin-out schematic. Hardest part is removing and measuring micro components such as caps and resistors. After I have the chip layout I would just need to harvest all the chips from the enclosure and etch out a pcb and install the konami components and insert finish product onto the main pcb and test


    Throne of Games


    Quote Originally Posted by darksoft View Post
    Don't hide it, you are angry beacuse if a multiboot is made, you will not be the only one that can Play Progear

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  10. #10
    Choi's Barber
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    Quote Originally Posted by gum_drops View Post
    So is it a good idea to cap a board if its fully working with no signs of damage? I have a X-Men board that currently works fine but dont want it to go out on me.
    If it aint broke don't fix it.

    I can't tell you how many times I have fucked around with something that worked fine and regretted it afterwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by gum_drops
    He said he tested it in mono on a converted gauntlet cab and it worked fine. Which is odd considering the dipswitch was on stereo when I got it.
    I can smell the bullshit from here. File a dispute on paypal mate.

  11. #11
    Mr Neo Fix-it channelmaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainman View Post
    You don't need to totally reverse engineer the chip, you just need a understanding of its layout. The chip has a fragile ceramic enclosure that has CUSTOM konami chips entombed inside so the true goal here is salvage. Basically all I need is a intact chip and access to a electron microscope to do a pin-out schematic. Hardest part is removing and measuring micro components such as caps and resistors. After I have the chip layout I would just need to harvest all the chips from the enclosure and etch out a pcb and install the konami components and insert finish product onto the main pcb and test
    Not quite.

    It's a ceramic hybrid module and has custom Konami ICs surface mount soldered to the bottom side.

    RJ
    Call me a cheap bastard... I learned to fix things to save money... even surface mount soldering...

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  12. #12
    Cheng's Errand Boy

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    So how about let's bump this thread and try to actually re-make this hybrid chip.. since I'm in the same boat having to desolder mine from my x-men board to replace the Lm4558 and AD1868R IC's... hopefully all the solder will be free before I pull it out (praying)

  13. #13
    JammaNationX
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRetro87 View Post
    So how about let's bump this thread and try to actually re-make this hybrid chip.. since I'm in the same boat having to desolder mine from my x-men board to replace the Lm4558 and AD1868R IC's... hopefully all the solder will be free before I pull it out (praying)
    It's been discussed many times but no one with the skills has stepped up to make it.

  14. #14
    Mr Neo Fix-it channelmaniac's Avatar
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    The problem is that the chips and parts needed to build it would need to be salvaged from the existing hybrids and it's VERY difficult to desolder the caps from them, let alone all the QFP surface mount chips from the bottom.
    Call me a cheap bastard... I learned to fix things to save money... even surface mount soldering...

    Visit my website: http://www.arcadecomponents.com

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  15. #15
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    This is actually a project that I have been meaning to do for a while now. My plan was to duplicate the traces and connections on a FR4 board, and then offer it as a kit, but the one thing is you would need to have a broken original ceramic one and remove the custom IC and install it on the new FR4 since I cannot replicate the custom IC. If there is interest I can give it higher priority on my list of projects that I have not had time to complete.

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRetro87 View Post
    So how about let's bump this thread and try to actually re-make this hybrid chip.. since I'm in the same boat having to desolder mine from my x-men board to replace the Lm4558 and AD1868R IC's... hopefully all the solder will be free before I pull it out (praying)
    SNK forever

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs256 View Post
    This is actually a project that I have been meaning to do for a while now. My plan was to duplicate the traces and connections on a FR4 board, and then offer it as a kit, but the one thing is you would need to have a broken original ceramic one and remove the custom IC and install it on the new FR4 since I cannot replicate the custom IC. If there is interest I can give it higher priority on my list of projects that I have not had time to complete.
    That would be kickass. I've seen tons of broken hybrids, but the chips on the bottom were okay.





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  17. #17
    Mr Neo Fix-it channelmaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox1 View Post
    That would be kickass. I've seen tons of broken hybrids, but the chips on the bottom were okay.
    Unless the hybrid is physically broken, I've never see one that had bad chips on the bottom. It's always been corroded caps, damaged traces on top of the hybrids, and damaged connections where they solder to the pins connecting the top/bottom sides of the hybrid to the game PCB.

    Would be damn nice to see a replacement made, but it will take massive heat to remove those ICs.
    Call me a cheap bastard... I learned to fix things to save money... even surface mount soldering...

    Visit my website: http://www.arcadecomponents.com

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  18. #18
    Kula's Candy
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    Well it looks like this is something that a lot of people could use so I will do my best to make it happen sooner rather than later.
    SNK forever

  19. #19
    Bub & Bob's Bubble Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjs256 View Post
    Well it looks like this is something that a lot of people could use so I will do my best to make it happen sooner rather than later.
    That would be great, I have so many chips that are completely messed up in the trace department.

    Oh and 5 lonely X-men boards.

    Edit: If you need a 054544 chip and a 054985A chip for reference I have a few.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/blhrin4v01...023_005807.jpg Something to tug at your heart strings :P
    Last edited by Fox1; 10-23-2014 at 04:03 AM.





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  20. #20
    Cheng's Errand Boy

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    Reviving an old thread here!!

    Ok so, Xmen is my favorite among favorite arcade games. I have 5 right now that I'd like to repair and sell most of so others can play Xmen in all its glory WITH sound - hopefully for a lifetime with proper care. Since new capacitors are a lot better made than those from 1992 (pshh.. Something about those konami boards, that year, and the same damn leaky caps that turbo duo's used... UGH)


    Anyway, I repair Xmen boards and other konami PCB's that have a hybrid sound module.

    This is what needs to be done and do this with care, DONT FORCE the chip, it's not extremely brittle.. But it is indeed easy to break, it's ceramic so handle it with care in mind... If you LOVE this game, you won't break it

    Anyway:

    1) with the chip soldered on, original caps can still be soldered on.. Spray the board, and esp the chip, with simple green. Get a toothbrush, preferably soft or used, and scrub the chip with light pressure. Don't press down on the chip hard, just scrub it with moderate pressure like you would your own teeth. This should clean up the board nicely

    2) take two soldering irons set to 500-550 degrees TOPS, and place between each capacitor - should pop them off no problem, literally. Then touch up each solder pad with 63/37 solder (better than 60/40 core as it solidifies quicker and leaves less chance for a cold solder joint)... If not two irons, use chip quick!!

    3) rub DENATURED alcohol on the chip, scrub again with a toothbrush. Then apply more denatured alcohol on the chip, but have an exacto/precision knife ready and LIGHTLY scrape off the black paint from the chip. This will expose the traces from the pads to the pins.

    4) after the paint is removed, get a multimeter and set it to check resistance as you will be testing for continuity between each trace, pad and their corresponding pins on the ends of the sound chip. Here is where you will tell which solder pads are connected to their pins and if there is no resistance (very minimal like 0.02 or something)... If there is none, get KYNAR WIRE (28-30 awg gauge wire is fine) and jump each pad to whichever other pad or pin they are connected to.

    5) most likely, leaked electrolyte has traveled underneath and may have eaten sole traces.. Maybe, maybe not.. But I wouldn't put it past me. Soo.. BUY A CHIP QUIK SMD REMOVAL KIT.. This will work WONDERS for removing the sound chip without breaking it. Trust me on this... 5 chips, all came out great with chip quik.

    6) so with that said, add chip quik's flux and heat up the iron to 500, add solder and run it back and forth on the pins from the parts side of the board.. And THEN add it underneath on the solder side of the board. Then up your iron to 550 degrees and run it back and forth on the pins on top and underneath again adding solder little by little. Don't be surprised if the chip slips out of the board because like I said... This stuff WORKS

    7) with the chip out... CAREFULLY, scrub it down with simple green and wash away with water, tap is fine seriously.

    8) remove paint from underneath, exacto knife and denatured alcohol

    9) last but not least, take ur multimeter, set to resistance, test each and EVERY of the 64 pins and their corresponding points on the three IC's on the chip. Jump each pin that doesn't connect.

    If you need a diagram, search my name, GTRetro87, on the KLOV forum and searched for my Xmen thread. You'll find diagrams of the chip underneath to see where each trace goes. Some of the traces are placed within the chip and you won't see them unless you put it under a light to make them visible


    So after all that, jumping pins, etc.. If need be, change he 4558 op-amp under the chip with an LM358 op-amp. Exact replacement. The AD1868 is a simple digital to analog audio converter, it does not affect sound quality.

    If you have bad traces, you'll get bad Roms and the game won't start, or it will and you'll get horrible sound, possibly quiet garbly sound.. Or no sound at all. With bad caps, no sound ... Change them.

    I will add a link to my thread and other resourceful threads on the KLOV forum ASAP


    If you don't want to repair them, I can do it no problem

  21. #21
    Nerdygrrl's Boy Toy
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    That's a nice detailed write up. Getting that fucking chip out is the most daunting part as i only have an iron, I am not aware of chip quik but sounds promising.

    I managed to fix three of my boards which now work except for XEXEX. It plays some music and effects but is missing a lot of them. If I enter the test menu a lot of the test sfx simply won't play. Not sure if I goofed up something while soldering on top the chip or if some of the fluid leaked to the under belly and damaged it. I kind of got pissed at the thing and stuffed it away, which is a bit of a shame as the board is in nice shape and has an unused art set with it.
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  22. #22
    Cheng's Errand Boy

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    Chip quik definitely works. The thing is, those chips have sliver traces that can easily erode away. I highly suggest that you use chip quick to remove the chip, remove the capacitors on top and remove the paint from both above and underneath

    Like above, I highly highly suggest getting your multimeter out and testing each pad and trace to their corresponding pins - this is on top. Underneath, same thing.. Make sure all the pins and traces that go to the custom IC are reading continuity, not an open trace. And then the same thing for all the pins and traces that go to the AD1868 and 4558 op-amp

    Here's my thread:

    http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=325836

    Look for post #50 for a complete schematic of the chip underneath - this will help you drastically with fixing figuring out which pin goes to which.

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