New Project: MV-IC Replacement? edit: New Projects KE 4 player and Jong Controller

Sorry, my bad I made confusion about the MV1B indeed.

I bought the boxed+manual/artwork ext PCB while in France, played it with the 4P MV1B trying some other games too, but the guy kept the MB, cause he had an unboxed external PCB.

I thought that a Slot1 with a unibios could at least unlock the content, so deal made (I was interested more in the ext PCB anyway), but since that day I never had a supegun/cab to do tests, neither a modded MV1B.


I can try to contact him, but I highly doubt he will give it to the community.

I'll try anyway with the definitive test MV1B+Unibios+PCB, (but if Raz is sure 100% it won't work just please let me know!)

OK, thanks to MKL who explained me a couple of things about the "infamous" connector, I didn't know the pinout was the same of IMaze, so any (my) 4-slot+unibios setup can be attached to the FTC1B, without need of a custom MV1B motherboard.

Basically I'll make a Y cable/adaptor to connect pins from the two joystick ports to the blue cable in the board.

This way, all possible combinations with unibios and FTC1B "Jamma splitter" can be tested with no slot1 modding.

I would ask you guys support about which dip/debug feature/test I should turn on, so we can definitively understand if making a clone of the FTC1B alone will be of any use.

I'll post the scans of the board in some hour

As promised



~85 meg pdf.

I haven't uploaded the manual pages yet, but I will soon.

G-R-E-A-T, thanks a *lot*.

Here you have my first batch of hires pics (23megs):

http://www.netpacket.it/neo/4P.zip


here the small preview:





















I tried to scan the board but as it's not plain, the result is really blurred...
Any idea? I can't flat it more than that.

Of course I can do as many pics as needed.

Way to go!

Great photos! Definately helps with the components. One request though. Can you get a perfectly alligned top and bottom shot? Having them at an angle will make it a bit hard to line up when I move them to photoshop.

Thanks again!

NeoTurfMasta said:

Great photos! Definately helps with the components. One request though. Can you get a perfectly alligned top and bottom shot? Having them at an angle will make it a bit hard to line up when I move them to photoshop.

Thanks again!

Click to expand...

Thanks to you man!

Sure no prob to try that way, the problem was that the light was right above, so the result was a giant fireball in the middle of the board.

I can try to take shots from above, positioning the light differently.

*********************************************************
About the test with the 4-slot, MKL updated me about how to connect the 4 pins from the FTC1B to a 4-slot, and it seems not so straight (need an inverter due to the different logic-state of the joystick ports).

Could you please sell me a NeoBiosMasta for a MV1B so I can easily put it on the spare MV1B board and try the 4P feature? I would have a modded MV1B anyway, so no big problem going in that way

massimiliano said:

Could you please sell me a NeoBiosMasta for a MV1B so I can easily put it on the spare MV1B board and try the 4P feature? I would have a modded MV1B anyway, so no big problem going in that way

Click to expand...

PM coming your way.

And for those who are interested, I whipped up a quick circuit for the Mahjong controller today. I'll probably add these to whatever I order next, probably the memory card replacement. This controller is 4" x 2". Pretty small to fit in your hand and it will have surface mount switches.

OK, thanks to MKL I build a little adapter so the SLot-4 1P joyport should now act as the MV1B/C connector used by Imaze and Kizuna4P daughter board.
I'll post details, so in case you can add the inverter circuit in the board.

Now, I would connect a joystick to the 2nd JAMMA connector of the FTC1-B (don't have a supergun/second cab), so I can simulate at least the 3d player controls, need 1h more.

Is there a checklist I should operate once I have everything?

I mean, which dip/debug combinations should I try? What do we expect now? (Raz?)

Mumble-mumble...

The only result I can get is that the second player control directions (not any kind of buttons) are diverted to the secondary jamma connector.

On the primary I get only player one, but full controls (directions+abcd-start).

This i swhat I can see from the unibios hardware controls test...of course only for two players.

Special bios is confirmed, as in the manual, a 4colums of bits hardware test is showed.

When I enable the 4way play (via unibios cheat 1/2+2/2 and turning ALL debug dip ON), I cannot push start on the 2P, so no VS even 1P vs 2P.

Why the 2nd player is not working at all!? maybe only after I can push start for him, the board will accept the controls from the secondary jamma connector? I could short the button straight from the jamma so I can unlock the 2nd player start...

The tag team feature is not working, as soon I switch to the background character, no controls of it...("3rd" player controls missing...)


I think I need some guidance from Raz/MKL/NeoTurfMasta now...


Edit:

Honestly I have no clear idea of the "position" for each player... I mean, basically this is a VS setup, so I do expect the 2nd player to be on the 1P of the secondary cab, the 3rd player (1P tag-friend) on the primary cab 2P, and finally the 4th player as the 2P on the secondary...it seems works this way, as I attached a joystick to the 1P on the secondary "cab" and it's seen as the 2P of the primary.

Edit2:

OK, I used a joypad attached to the 2P onboard port of the 4-slot, so I was able to press start.
Now the 2P somehow works from the secondary cab.

The problem is definetively enabling 3rd and 4th players, as the 2P on the primary cab (3rd player) is not working at all.

I think the bios should enable this kind of "dual layer" comunication for each of the two players....maybe the Imaze experience can help Raz this way...dunno.


Edit3:

I think he's quite right:

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1198069&postcount=47

Interesting that the board has a setup for 4 DB15s.

Asure said:

So i want to go as far and gamble, saying that with the board, and a special bios, the jamma add-on is a sort of relais switching system. When 4 players are active, only the 'active' player (on screen) has active joysticks. When 1p tags 3p, the relais kicks in, and switches the inputs to his stick.

There would be plenty of time to do this, kizuna has about 2-3 seconds before the tag is complete, time enough for a switch to be made..

When tagged, i guess the game just sends a command to the i/o (blue cable) to switch 1p with 3p or 2p with 4p.

Does this sound realistic ?

- Alex

Click to expand...

I agree with this as well, totally doable looking at the board component for controller logic. (4x 74HCT245AP)

Yes, after some check, I have confirmed that the final problem seems not to intercept the tag-event code in the game (already done by Raz, making 3p and 4p controllable via normal controls) ,and this is a good thing, but the missing code to instruct the hardware to "switch" the controls.


As we are talking about making new hardware anyway, I think that it would be "easier" to redesign the PCB from scratch (starting from the original hardware of course), with complete awareness of the underlying logic , then add the necessary code to the bios without surprises.

Dunno...this would be a demanding project to complete, no doubt about it.

Said that, I have no clue about who could do the code, hope someone can join the party.

If someone can get me a dump of the bios, I can easily add support to the unibios.

Razoola said:

If someone can get me a dump of the bios, I can easily add support to the unibios.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately I have no custom MV1B, only the daughter board (the best I can do is send it to you, in case you think it could be worth a try).

I think that, at the moment, things turns on how to use the Neo as a sort of PLC.

Xian Xi said:

Interesting that the board has a setup for 4 DB15s.

Click to expand...

A repro of the PCB should definitely include those

The code is trivial so I recently made a multiplexed BIOS code to use one controller port + one mahjong controller to control P1-A / P1-B uniquely. This would be similar to what the PCB does already. Although if someone just gave Razoola the original BIOS dump and NTM or whoever else repro'd the original PCB, that would be ideal. It would be a proper replica of the original instead of a hack..

Or if no one offers the original BIOS, then it shouldn't be hard to figure out how the PCB works just by eyeballing it or trying a few things with it.

@Razoola: I'm sure you have already seen the 4P code as there's not much to it. Has anyone tried using Mahjong style code to put data in the 10FDA0+ area? That is all I had to do to make true 4P code work over here, but I have no PCB to play, just MAME.

smkdan said:

A repro of the PCB should definitely include those

The code is trivial so I recently made a multiplexed BIOS code to use one controller port + one mahjong controller to control P1-A / P1-B uniquely. This would be similar to what the PCB does already. Although if someone just gave Razoola the original BIOS dump and NTM or whoever else repro'd the original PCB, that would be ideal. It would be a proper replica of the original instead of a hack..

Or if no one offers the original BIOS, then it shouldn't be hard to figure out how the PCB works just by eyeballing it or trying a few things with it.

@Razoola: I'm sure you have already seen the 4P code as there's not much to it. Has anyone tried using Mahjong style code to put data in the 10FDA0+ area? That is all I had to do to make true 4P code work over here, but I have no PCB to play, just MAME.

Click to expand...

No I have not seen the 4p code do you have it? all I have found is the mahjong code which is in all bios but I have looked at the 10fda0 area as I use that to get the cheat for the unibios.

I don't have the 4P BIOS so I can only speculate the exact method it used. The only 4P code I have seen is already in the game, I assume you have seen it since you have the 10FDA0 cheat already. I homebrewed some mahjong controller code that just gets pasted over the original BIOS controller code. Since I read mention of the controller port on a 4slot or whatever it was being connected to the PCB, it must use something similar. I can't help with the 4P code that comes from the unique BIOS, just have to wait for someone to dump it or just see how the PCB is laid out.

Wow, lots of talk sine I last looked.

Hacked rom or not, things are looking pretty good for this. I can always modify the Jong design to also allow the extra KE players. Or if anyone else wants to do it, feel free.

In other news, got the loaner IC board in this morning. Thanks fenikso! I'll finish the design sometime this week.

I have spent the last hour and traced through the bios code and I can now confirm that all standard bios have code to control 4 sticks. The situation is that it is not always active. The cheats in kizuna to enable 1up to control 3 up and 2up to control 4up actually enable four joystick support in the bios. Because there is nothing normally to switch between joysticks is the reason why the same stick controls the other player.

I'm a little sick with myself because I have gone though this process and documented it before but totally forgot about it, now when I have gone through it again I find the notes in my unibios source

Ohh well we live and learn.

This rasises a cople of questions, the first being is the 4player code different in the special bios than the code in the normal bios (seems the code in normal bios is aimed at jotstick ports and not JAMMA)..... Simply need to hook up the daughter board, enable all four cheats (the two to enable 4player mode, 1up to up and 2up to4up) and see if it workds... ???

If not the output code to control the bank between the 2 sticks is different but should be easy to find.

^ Nice. I never figured the original BIOS would have the support for something produced years later.

This is why I think it may be different in the normal bios, it seems aimed at the joystick ports and not JAMMA. In fact no special hardware is really required, it seems one could make a lead to split the joystick ports into two.

Raz

So, *gasp* the Neo was the first console to support 4 controllers?

Hi guys, thanks to everybody for your effort! I really hope we are 1mm away from the goal.

I'm coming back from work trip saturday, I'll test for good all possible combination.

Btw, I think I made a mistake building the inverter circuit, but at this stage I don't even know if it is really needed..

Anyway, maybe to 4p code was something tied to link-cable enabled games? It doesn't make sense (link cable=data between PCB), but they were the only multiplayer games at that time.

Who cares, afterall if we can play 4P it's great.

Soon,


Massi

I know we have several discussions going on in this thread. Back to the memory card board for a minute. The clone design is finished, but I started thinking about the possibility of the memory card on non supported mvs boards.

Thinking back to when I rigged a memory card to the CDz, all but the CE and OE signals went directly to the bios. CE and OE went to the MGA. Can this be replicated on the MVS boards? I can always try grounding out the CE and OE and hook the rest to the bios lines, but I assume something in the bios would need to be modified to see this new area.

Ideas?

ForeverSublime said:

So, *gasp* the Neo was the first console to support 4 controllers?

Click to expand...

Not even close.