The Walking Dead TV series courtesy of AMC.

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
22,031
I enjoyed it last night. I feel like Rick's best Batman-as-portrayed-by-Christian-Bale voice got a little stale during that long walkie-talkie scene that looked and sounded like it was completely voiced over. The herd scene was solid and tense with a good job at making the group look separated and outnumbered to up the scares, some cinamatography like Carl and Sofia both nearly disappearing from sight of their parents because of the marching zombie legs and never being able to see any of the main caravan vehicles during T-Dog's 'escape'.

I agree a million percent on Sofia's mom being annoying as well as Andrea. Dale is pretty useless as well and Glenn has had a pretty stale part the last few episodes, but he had a good start to the series.

As someone who never read the comics, I'm interested to see what happened to Sofia (I'm assuming here she didn't simply get lost). I'm less interested about Carl's recovery as I am about what looks like a potential new group and subsequently a break-up (or separation?) of the current main group.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
I enjoyed it last night. I feel like Rick's best Batman-as-portrayed-by-Christian-Bale voice got a little stale during that long walkie-talkie scene that looked and sounded like it was completely voiced over. The herd scene was solid and tense with a good job at making the group look separated and outnumbered to up the scares, some cinamatography like Carl and Sofia both nearly disappearing from sight of their parents because of the marching zombie legs and never being able to see any of the main caravan vehicles during T-Dog's 'escape'.

I agree a million percent on Sofia's mom being annoying as well as Andrea. Dale is pretty useless as well and Glenn has had a pretty stale part the last few episodes, but he had a good start to the series.

As someone who never read the comics, I'm interested to see what happened to Sofia (I'm assuming here she didn't simply get lost). I'm less interested about Carl's recovery as I am about what looks like a potential new group and subsequently a break-up (or separation?) of the current main group.

Dale comes off as a little 'useless' in terms of what he brings to the group, but he serves a very important part of the social dynamic in terms of storytelling. He's everyone's father. At least in the TV show. When people are going off and making rash decisions due to the heightened tension and their survival instinct mode, he's the voice of reason, wisdom and patience. He's the guy that tells everyone to settle down and not make rash decisions just because they're scared.

In last night's episode, Andrea was like 'that's my choice to go off and die.' What Andrea missed was the point of Dale's intervention. If she were emotionally stable and not making decisions out of grief, then he might have reacted differently. It's hard to stay sane and patient in an insane and frenzied world, and if Dale isn't there to bring some fatherly guidance to people, there will be a lot of people making a lot of stupid decisions.

The show spun Andrea's decision as something she wanted to do, but it smartly avoided the important question: was she CAPABLE of making that decision. Both her and Shane wanted to take their balls and go home because they couldn't deal with it. They were both acting like spoiled fuckers, all sour grapes because they couldn't have what they wanted. In times like that, there needs to be people to set them straight and make them realize that they have to stick together and not let their petty bullshit get in the way.

Dale was the gentle hand, but it wasn't what either Andrea or Shane needed. They needed someone like Lori to smack them around a bit and remind them of what really matters. I LOVED the scene where Lori gave the gun to Andrea. She basically used child psychology on her to get her back on track and make her realize she was acting like an entitled bitch.

Dale's role is further emphasized when he's telling the other guy that he lied about the radiator hose because he knew people would make impatient, rash decisions out of panic and survival instinct, so he decided to give them more time to do the right thing, which was to find Sophia. I really liked Dale in last night's episode.

Dale in the comic is not exactly the same character. From the beginning, he's having a relationship with both Andrea and Amy at the same time, and all three are cool about it. Also, Andrea is the same age as Amy so they're both college students-consenting adults but too young for Dale in a world with social norms. The taboo nature of their relationship instantly highlights all three characters and makes them interesting, so you're paying more attention to what they're saying and what they're doing.

It also highlights an interesting element of good dystopian storytelling-in a world without social boundaries, how are people going to act? Is it right or wrong to do that? Should the old unwritten customs of society be preserved or abandoned in favor of establishing rules that the new guard find more desirable and reasonable? It's the best thing about dystopian fiction-the breakdown and examination of cultural behavior.

It's why I, personally, love Romero and The Walking Dead over most of the misguided zombie stories. They miss the point. People want action and gore, but those luddites are missing the fucking point of what makes it special and why zombies can be more than mindless eating machines-they can be a vehicle for communicating interesting ideas about humanity. It's why I've loved GOOD zombie fiction ever since the original Dawn of the Dead hit theaters.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
22,031
Good points for sure and I'm sure useless was a bit harsh. I must have missed what seems to be a key point about the radiator hose, I don't remember that from last night.

I also believe I've seen you make the point before, but it is one that I completely agree with regarding the fact that zombie fiction shouldn't be interesting because of the zombie but because of the people.
 

cdamm

Trust the French?
10 Year Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2011
Posts
10,587
Good points for sure and I'm sure useless was a bit harsh. I must have missed what seems to be a key point about the radiator hose, I don't remember that from last night.

I also believe I've seen you make the point before, but it is one that I completely agree with regarding the fact that zombie fiction shouldn't be interesting because of the zombie but because of the people.

the radiator hose bit was from the season finale last year. they brought it back up this episode. there has got to be a lot of miles on that rv!
 

GregN

aka The Grinch
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Posts
17,570
That was such a fucking good episode. Everything else gets postponed because of walking dead. That includes watching football and the monthly Sunday pinball tournaments for me.

There was a good mix of drama, tension, gore, and violence in that episode. I hope they keep the rest of them consistent.
 

Biohazard53

B. Jenet's Firstmate
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Posts
424
amazing show last night, loved it. I had a question for you guys though, does anyone else feel Daryl Dixon came off as kinda soft in the the premiere? if I'm not mistaken I haven't watched season 1 in a while but I kinda remember him being a complete prick, basically I don't give a shit about any of you attitude. However last night he seemed different. He's probably my favorite character because he is basically a badass and kinda get's off on obliterating zombies
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
Good points for sure and I'm sure useless was a bit harsh. I must have missed what seems to be a key point about the radiator hose, I don't remember that from last night.

It's when everyone's off looking for Sophia and Dale and T-Bone/T-Dog/whatever his name is (I don't care about the character just yet so I'm not bothering to remember his name) are back with the RV. Dale's up on top of the RV with binoculars looking out for trouble and he tells T-Bone 'The ride was fixed yesterday.' T-Bone 'gets it' and you can see guilt in his behavior over how he panicked when trying to throw Merle the keys so he could free himself from the handcuffs in the first season.

T-Bone won't be leaving anybody else behind after that incident, and that's why he isn't pissed off to learn that the group could have left yesterday. He knows that the group will vote to move on if they know they can leave. That will cause arguments, dissention, chaos and only splinter them further. So Dale's wisdom in helping people to make the right choice comes through.

I really loved that scene and that reveal because it showed layererd complexities of character development and good storytelling mechanics that conveyed a positive message without being patronizing to the audience. I am not saying the show is perfect, but that scene is one instance where they got it right: good plot points and character examinations expertly executed, and all of it served the dystopian themes perfectly.

amazing show last night, loved it. I had a question for you guys though, does anyone else feel Daryl Dixon came off as kinda soft in the the premiere? if I'm not mistaken I haven't watched season 1 in a while but I kinda remember him being a complete prick, basically I don't give a shit about any of you attitude. However last night he seemed different. He's probably my favorite character because he is basically a badass and kinda get's off on obliterating zombies

My .02:

Daryl is a character that always got validation from his brother. Everything he said or did was in the context of interaction with someone who approved of him and gave him guidance.

Without Merle, Daryl was lost, angry and frightened. Even when he was with Merle, his older brother's hate and intolerance were something he aspired to because he wants approval. While this is never flat out stated, Daryl's behavior around Merle and the rest of the group speaks to this type of storytelling archetype.

Now that he's with other people, and a guy that has flat out earned his respect in Rick (who went back for Merle when he didn't have to,) he's acting as a part of the gruop. Continuing to be useful and seeking approval. Daryl is also a survivor, and he is smart enough to know that he can't survive on his own. He could have let T-Bone die, but he saved him because that validates his presence to the group, and gives him the degree of fulfillment he needs.

Again, this is just my perspective and it may or may not ever coume out as an obvous motivation for the character. But he behaves in that classic archetypal way and seems to fill that role in this fictionalized group's context.
 
Last edited:

Comrade Porn King Mikhail

TЗh ЯussiaИs Дre CФm
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Posts
3,486
Dale in the comic is not exactly the same character. From the beginning, he's having a relationship with both Andrea and Amy at the same time, and all three are cool about it. Also, Andrea is the same age as Amy so they're both college students-consenting adults but too young for Dale in a world with social norms. The taboo nature of their relationship instantly highlights all three characters and makes them interesting, so you're paying more attention to what they're saying and what they're doing.

I haven't seen Sunday's premiere yet, so I can't comment on it, but skimming over the post I noticed the above quote.

I haven't read any other message board discussions nor really asked Kirkman anything directly (other than not hearing back from him after asking to be put in the comic book :() but has there been any proof that Amy slept with Dale as well? I thought all along the flirtation in the initial first issues was only to be allowed to continue staying in the RV, and even though this situation was against Donna's conservative values there was no implication that Dale at that time had intimate relations with the younger sister.

Just wondering since I've read those six issues three times and never noticed anything intimate until after Amy's tragedy.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
I haven't seen Sunday's premiere yet, so I can't comment on it, but skimming over the post I noticed the above quote.

I haven't read any other message board discussions nor really asked Kirkman anything directly (other than not hearing back from him after asking to be put in the comic book :() but has there been any proof that Amy slept with Dale as well? I thought all along the flirtation in the initial first issues was only to be allowed to continue staying in the RV, and even though this situation was against Donna's conservative values there was no implication that Dale at that time had intimate relations with the younger sister.

Just wondering since I've read those six issues three times and never noticed anything intimate until after Amy's tragedy.

Having read those issues twice, and reading through them a third time now, it's never explicitly stated, but I felt the implication was clear. I never saw anything to suggest a platonic relationship and always took it as 'wierd' from the very beginning. I can't say I know for certain, however. I wonder if the character guide has anything on it?
 
Last edited:

HeartlessNinny

Heartlessness is a virtue
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Posts
14,664
I really liked the tone of last night's episode. It was the right kind of creeping tension for my tastes.

I agree that Andrea is fucking annoying in this show. I'm supposed to like that character, and I DO like that character very much in the comic. I think the character's age in the show is bugging me. I liked the taboo aspect of her relationship with Dale in the comic book: I felt it was challenging to conventional thought in all the right ways. But in the show so far, Andrea just feels like an irritating super bitch, the kind of character I am cheering for to die.

I also agree that Sophia's mom is an annoying character, too. I could do without her.

I think Rick is still great, I really liked Shane in the second season premiere (the character had depth and the actor did a good job) and I think Lori's arc went in the right way: she was another one of those 'super bitch' characters in the first season, but I liked her last night. Dale and Daryl are also both top notch. Personally, I like Daryl as the loose cannon a lot more than Michonne in the comic book. Daryl comes from a real place. Michonne feels like she came out of another universe with her katana, leading two zombies by the neck and just slaughtering everything in sight. If they just kept Daryl and never introduced Michonne, I'd be perfectly happy.

I believe Carl got shot in the same way in the comic book, too. I am glad they kept that scene for the TV show.

I pretty much agree with everything you say here.

Don't forget that I read the comics too. Carl get shot around, what? Issue 75 or something? It was way, way later. Plus he gets... Hold on a sec.

Spoiler:
He gets shot in the head, man. I was actually pretty upset that he was able to recover so easily from that. I wrote Kirkman about it (he's published both my letters so far, pretty cool) and he mentioned that the artist kind of went a bit overboard on that one. He wasn't supposed to have half his head blown off. It was supposed to look like he might be able to survive it. Ah well whatever. I think it was a stupid idea myself. He gets shot and it's clear that all he's going to suffer for it is some amnesia... And it's not like that's a tired storytelling mechanic. At least in the show it looks like he got tagged in the gut, and that can take a good 24 hours to kill you. It's still pretty likely you'll die unless someone they come across is a surgeon, but we'll see what happens. I guess someone on the farm will be a vet or something.
 

Comrade Porn King Mikhail

TЗh ЯussiaИs Дre CФm
Joined
Oct 11, 2000
Posts
3,486
I never saw anything to suggest a platonic relationship and always took it as 'wierd' from the very beginning.

Perv ;)

I always took him for an old man just getting over his tragedy and helping a couple of survivors, letting them stay in the RV to gain some privacy, with Andrea's flirting helping out.

Kirkman doesn't really seem to hold things back, he mostly puts the stories out there no matter how gross or disturbing they may be. Then again, he may be changing his storytelling as Walking Dead is becoming more than just print media.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
HN:

He got shot just before they found Herschel's farm. It would have happened somewhere between 7-12, because it's in the first $35 hardback compilation, which covers 1-12. It was when Rick and Tyrese went hunting in the snow. They'd just bugged out of the zombie infested neighborhood they thought was safe and were out looking for food. Carl got shot in the back of his left shoulder. There was no deer, and it ended up being a 'hunting accident' by one of Herschel's people. Rick threatened to kill the guy, they patched him up and ended up at the farm.

The event you're referencing happens much later. About 5 or 6 months ago in the series, I think.

Perv ;)

I always took him for an old man just getting over his tragedy and helping a couple of survivors, letting them stay in the RV to gain some privacy, with Andrea's flirting helping out.

Kirkman doesn't really seem to hold things back, he mostly puts the stories out there no matter how gross or disturbing they may be. Then again, he may be changing his storytelling as Walking Dead is becoming more than just print media.

The reason I interpreted it that way was because I didn't see Donna objecting to the agreement if it were purely innocent and nothing was going on. I always interpreted it as a 'tit for tat' type of exchange and Donna didn't approve of it. One could easily say 'Donna's really old fashioned' but she didn't come off as so old fashioned that she would have disapproved of them just sleeping in the RV. But trading 'favors' in the presence of children that might have witnessed something 'improper' would be plenty of reason for her to be hot about it. Also, if Dale was just being kind, why didn't he let the kids sleep or some other adults sleep in there, too?

Just sayin'.

I could be wrong, but that was just the way I always read into it.
 

HeartlessNinny

Heartlessness is a virtue
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Posts
14,664
HN:

He got shot just before they found Herschel's farm. It would have happened somewhere between 7-12, because it's in the first $35 hardback compilation, which covers 1-12. It was when Rick and Tyrese went hunting in the snow. They'd just bugged out of the zombie infested neighborhood they thought was safe and were out looking for food. Carl got shot in the back of his left shoulder. There was no deer, and it ended up being a 'hunting accident' by one of Herschel's people. Rick threatened to kill the guy, they patched him up and ended up at the farm.

The event you're referencing happens much later. About 5 or 6 months ago in the series, I think.

Oh yeah.... I forgot all about that. I haven't read the early issues since they came out. Maybe I should re-read 'em.
 

Taiso

Remembers The North,
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2000
Posts
13,156
Oh yeah.... I forgot all about that. I haven't read the early issues since they came out. Maybe I should re-read 'em.

You're not the only one.

'gof is right about Dale and the girls.

There's a scene early on in the series, when Moore was still doing the art, where Rick, Shane and Dale are out getting firewood and they're talking about how Donna's all judgemental about the agreement. Neither Rick nor Shane have any beef about it, but Dale says:

"C'mon, guys. I'm not DOING anything with those girls. To be honest, I'm an old man. My plumbing AIN'T what it used to be. It's just...after losing my wife not two months ago...it's nice having them around. They keep the place clean...remind me of what it was LIKE with her around."

Learn something new every day. Even about shit you love.
 

SPINMASTER X

I AM NOT FRENCHMAN,, I AM A HUMAN BEING!,
20 Year Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2001
Posts
16,953
I feel weird for saying this but am I the only one who doesn't like Lori for some reason?
 

HeartlessNinny

Heartlessness is a virtue
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Posts
14,664

I dunno man. I don't know if I'd call killing Pan Am impressive.

I feel weird for saying this but am I the only one who doesn't like Lori for some reason?

Nope. I don't care about her either. They could kill the whole cast other than Darryl, Dale and Rick, and I wouldn't mind. I probably wouldn't mind all that much even if they killed those guys -- I've never really been that into the characters of the series.
 

HeartlessNinny

Heartlessness is a virtue
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Posts
14,664
I have to admit I'm not all that impressed by that either. Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good.

I cite the show Home Improvement as an example. That show was crazy popular in the '90s, and I'm pretty sure I'd rather hear the death rattle of my only child rather than Tim Allen's inane grunting.
 

evil wasabi

The Jongmaster
20 Year Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2000
Posts
60,434
I have to admit I'm not all that impressed by that either. Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good.

I cite the show Home Improvement as an example. That show was crazy popular in the '90s, and I'm pretty sure I'd rather hear the death rattle of my only child rather than Tim Allen's inane grunting.

American Idol
Survivor
Lost

I never watched them.

However, I never watched X-Files, and I regret it. It was aired at a time I didn't watch tv.
 

lithy

Most Prominent Member of Chat
20 Year Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Posts
22,031
I have to admit I'm not all that impressed by that either. Just because something's popular doesn't mean it's good.

I cite the show Home Improvement as an example. That show was crazy popular in the '90s, and I'm pretty sure I'd rather hear the death rattle of my only child rather than Tim Allen's inane grunting.

But, c'mon, you'd have to agree that this isn't the sort of show that is normally popular. This isn't a cliche family sitcom like Home Improvement. This isn't Two and a Half Men in syndication. This isn't a calculated 'please all audiences' type show thought up by marketers rather than anyone with an ounce of creative talent.

It is a freaking show about a post-apocalyptic zombie-infested world.

Then again Zombieland also did pretty well. Maybe zombies are the new "fat guy and attractive woman sitcome couple" show.
 

SouthtownKid

There are four lights
20 Year Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Posts
26,898
However, I never watched X-Files, and I regret it. It was aired at a time I didn't watch tv.
Watching things as they air is overrated. You miss some of the nuance in better-written shows that is easier to pick up on when you aren't waiting a week (or more, during the many mid-season hiatuses) between episodes. And in the case of X-Files, you could wait months in between episodes that moved the main plot forward.
 

HeartlessNinny

Heartlessness is a virtue
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Posts
14,664
But, c'mon, you'd have to agree that this isn't the sort of show that is normally popular. This isn't a cliche family sitcom like Home Improvement. This isn't Two and a Half Men in syndication. This isn't a calculated 'please all audiences' type show thought up by marketers rather than anyone with an ounce of creative talent.

It is a freaking show about a post-apocalyptic zombie-infested world.

Then again Zombieland also did pretty well. Maybe zombies are the new "fat guy and attractive woman sitcome couple" show.

That's true.

I guess what I was trying to get at was I thought it was laudable they've made an entertaining show, and to me the popularity is incidental.
 

hexcrass

n00b
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Posts
40
amazing show last night, loved it. I had a question for you guys though, does anyone else feel Daryl Dixon came off as kinda soft in the the premiere? if I'm not mistaken I haven't watched season 1 in a while but I kinda remember him being a complete prick, basically I don't give a shit about any of you attitude. However last night he seemed different. He's probably my favorite character because he is basically a badass and kinda get's off on obliterating zombies
Daryl is the best character in this show, I think he's carrying the whole damn group. Riding around on a chopper with a crossbow and tracking people like an Indian...he's like some kind of zombie apocalypse super hero.
 
Top