Official A/V Thread

Kristian Meller said:

Calibration is always important.

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Totally agree. My question was more about having a "pro" do it, specifically on fixed pixel panel sets, vs. the consumer doing it themselves with a handy dandy blu-ray calibration disk.

As mentioned, my gut feeling tells me it was a service (a pro doing it) required for older technologies (rear projection / DLP, etc.) but I guess I'm just not seeing the value in it now for later gen displays.

It's not actual calibration without a sensor. Just using a disc isn't much in comparison, assuming people even understand how to use it.

I don't see why having a pro do it is not important now. TV sets are terrible out of the box these days, and most people have no idea.

Teddy KGB said:

Yo Ashypants, what are your thoughts about getting displays professionally calibrated? I used to do this with any new TV that I purchased over the years. Usually these guys coordinate a multi-state tour if you will, and try to fill out their days with in-home appointments which ultimately results in an easy experience for the display owner at a decent price if the AV pro schedules his appts in the right way.

I used to be pretty good pals with David @ avical.com and he's come out a couple times. I decided to not call him when I got our latest plasma display and ended up using one of those spears & munsil calibration discs.

My feeling is that with many of the later fixed pixel displays such as Plasma and LCD/LED, they look just fine out of the box with a little tweeking. I used to rely on Dave's services a lot more when I was buying new CRTs or rear projection / DLP displays but that's not really happening any more obviously. Thoughts?

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All displays, regardless of type, benefit from calibration. Today’s TV's are more "right" in terms of calibration than they were 10 or more years ago. Just the basics of putting a display into Cinema/Movie mode is a vast improvement over the typical default vivid setting. Beyond that basic setting, adjusting the color temperature, overscan, brightness, and contrast will likely get you 85 to 90% of what a pro calibration will get you. A professional ISF calibration takes things to the next level. The tech will have the calibration equipment, and the ability to make deep changes down in the TV's service menus. The service menus are difficult for the average person to understand and navigate; and you can totally screw things up in a hurry. Now, is a pro calibration worth it? It depends. Obviously, it's not worth, IMO, calibrating a $200 TV and getting a calibration bill that exceeds the cost of the TV. However, if you have a multi-thousand dollar display, spend a few hundred bucks getting it optimized. For most people that are not interested in, or wanting to spend the money on calibration, the Spears & Munsil calibration disc is fantastic. Also, THX movies have calibration features that are OK. It is important to keep in mind that the quality of a professional calibration can be directly attributed to the equipment and knowledge/skill of the technician. Yes, in order for a TV to be truly calibrated, it does require the use of proper calibration equipment.

Thanks... You too Kristian.

Back about 10 years ago, I'd get about an hours worth of calibration time for $120-150. In that span of time, that guy Dave would pull out his expensive test equipment, work his magic then would leave me with an awesome picture I dare not touch and a cool little ISF certificate with some before/after data specific to my TV.

The dork in me loved watching and it didn't seem extremely expensive even though I've never had terribly expensive displays.

I think you both talked me into calling him back after all these years. Thanks again for the advice.

So I picked up a set of these for my mains and surrounds. Wow, I'm impressed how nice these things are their size and the price I paid. I ended up buying another set as monitors for my cave.

Kid Panda said:

So I picked up a set of these for my mains and surrounds. Wow, I'm impressed how nice these things are their size and the price I paid. I ended up buying another set as monitors for my cave.

Spoiler:

View attachment 21856View attachment 21857

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Now the panda cave is rocking! Seeing those speakers is a blast from the past.

Sony has been making, in various iterations, those speakers for many years. Years ago, back in the college undergrad days, I had those bookshelves and the floor standing version setup in a house I shared with a couple of buddies. I kept all the good stuff safely on lock in my room. They got a lot of abuse and were beat on at parties...even knocked off their stands on many occasions, and just kept on working. The bookshelves were in the foyer room and towers were in the living room, running everything off the A/B outputs.

Got this here receiver in "broken" condition, having these problems:
- photo input does not work
- speakers do not work
less than a dozen fixed cold solder points later = working just fine.

I've always liked vintage hifi, the new equipment is great, but there's something really cool about the classic stuff. For me it has been a challenge. I like the latest and greatest gear, but I also like vintage. I've always had a few pieces of vintage gear kicking around. However, swapping them into and integrating with my main 2-ch setup, can be a chore. So, I've decided to setup a 2nd system, with a vintage focus. The audiophile in me enjoys analytical listening. The other half of me just enjoys listening to music and not getting all caught up in the details. The vintage setup is all about a warm and lush musical presentation.

I'm still working out the details on the amp with the dealer, Audio Classics. Below, is a shot of the preamp that I will be using. This C712, at ~20 years old, is just entering the classic/vintage status. Mint and just serviced by one of the top McIntosh techs, it's ready to rock. I considered something like a C26. Having spent some time with that era of preamp, I decided against it. Also, the older style push buttons on the front can be a pain and are part of the signal path. This pre features silent electromagnetic switches. The addition of a remote control is also a nice feature. Flexibility is always important to me; with plenty of inputs, a MM phono stage, and balanced and unbalanced outputs, this pre delivers. Wonderfully lush smooth sound, that maintains detail and transparency.

Mmmmm sexy. I want something like that to go with my CJ

Nice vintage porn...errrr...equipment again neo ash!

And Teddy, calibration is must. You really need proper equipment, can't be done with BD. I did basic calibration myself and oh boy it was so shitty compared to what pro did. Also pros normally know all the tricks with equipment to get the right results, what gamma to use as basic etc.

miisalo said:

And Teddy, calibration is must. You really need proper equipment, can't be done with BD. I did basic calibration myself and oh boy it was so shitty compared to what pro did. Also pros normally know all the tricks with equipment to get the right results, what gamma to use as basic etc.

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Yeah, I agree. It's something I guess I knew the answer to before I asked. I've had it done before with 2 other displays, but was hoping to perhaps "cheep out" now that my house is full of cabs and kids.

Just chiming in cause this is a good topic. I may post my setup later, but I still need a few components, and it's not set up ideally the way I would like it due to space constraints. Have a tv between my speakers. But it does still sound much better than anything I have ever had by a long shot.

greedostick said:

Just chiming in cause this is a good topic. I may post my setup later, but I still need a few components, and it's not set up ideally the way I would like it due to space constraints. Have a tv between my speakers. But it does still sound much better than anything I have ever had by a long shot.

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Yeah dude...post up. I remember you had a thread a few months back about all the new stuff you were in the market for. I'd be interested in hearing an update and how that turntable worked out for you.

Tell me if I'm retarded here but I've been really thinking about going the complete opposite direction with a hifi set up. I've been looking at my amp and feeling hopeless at its sheer massiveness. Its larger in every dimension to my 20" PVM except for height and weighs so much I need another person just to move it (114 lbs). I cant fit it anywhere in my AV racking either and currently I live in a small ass apartment (I possibly might be moving into a house in a couple months).

Recently I was shown a PS Audio Sprout and it blew my mind at how small it was, how good it sounded with what it was working with, and the options its filled with. After doing my own research on it I've been seeing all these minimalist systems that look just gorgeous and simple. This CJ amp I have now is the kind you sit on the floor in between two huge ass tower speakers along with another pile of huge boxes and need a dedicated room for. And I'm really starting to not like that even though I LOVE the look of big, imposing, tower speakers.

So now instead of something like http://www.soundscapehifi.com/images/hifi-show-2006-3-11_LRG.jpg

I'm thinking of going to something like http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yVGIAKz0KWs/maxresdefault.jpg

And looking at these speakers
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/PM1
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/flagship_hi-fi_series/LS50/overview/
http://www.goldenear.com/products/aon-series

you guys want to help me out? i recently sold my Audio Technica lp240 usb turntable, because it was huge and the lack of auto return on the stylus arm drove me nuts. i was using a stupid onkyo receiver/ bose 5 cube set up for the amp and speakers due to very limited space, and absolutely hated it. it was either this model or a turd just like it. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bose-home-theater-system/prod1620573.ip
im pretty sure i will craigslist that stuff.

i have decided on this model turntable as my next, and have not decided whether i will buy the one with an internal preamp or get a receiver that handles that.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FMNBXG...2569cfbc5ab9862fcc012_S&dra_hfr=1&dra_ohs=0-0

i need some recommendations on receivers, floor speakers, and am not opposed to vintage on either item. i would like to keep this all as close to $1000 or lower as possible, maybe as much as $1200 (including the cost of the new denon turntable) if it really makes a huge difference. the point of this set up will be that it goes in the living room, the fiance can operate the turntable with ease and not damage records, it sounds nice and LOUD and warm, and is a total of AT MOST 4 pieces if i absolutely need to include a n external pre amp. would prefer it be turntable, amp, and speakers though.

is this too difficult? i hope not. figured you AV dudes would like to throw together some suggestions. thanks in advance!

P.S. should probably also state that punk and classic rock and metal will be the primary music played on this rig.

Kiel said:

http://www.goldenear.com/products/aon-series

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The Aon 3's are what I am next going to purchase audio wise.

And I agree with your viewpoint of going with a more minimalist audio setup.

max 330 mega said:

you guys want to help me out? i recently sold my Audio Technica lp240 usb turntable, because it was huge and the lack of auto return on the stylus arm drove me nuts. i was using a stupid onkyo receiver/ bose 5 cube set up for the amp and speakers due to very limited space, and absolutely hated it. it was either this model or a turd just like it. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bose-home-theater-system/prod1620573.ip
im pretty sure i will craigslist that stuff.

i have decided on this model turntable as my next, and have not decided whether i will buy the one with an internal preamp or get a receiver that handles that.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FMNBXG...2569cfbc5ab9862fcc012_S&dra_hfr=1&dra_ohs=0-0

i need some recommendations on receivers, floor speakers, and am not opposed to vintage on either item. i would like to keep this all as close to $1000 or lower as possible, maybe as much as $1200 (including the cost of the new denon turntable) if it really makes a huge difference. the point of this set up will be that it goes in the living room, the fiance can operate the turntable with ease and not damage records, it sounds nice and LOUD and warm, and is a total of AT MOST 4 pieces if i absolutely need to include a n external pre amp. would prefer it be turntable, amp, and speakers though.

is this too difficult? i hope not. figured you AV dudes would like to throw together some suggestions. thanks in advance!

P.S. should probably also state that punk and classic rock and metal will be the primary music played on this rig.

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I just went through this a few months back and Neo Ash really helped me out. I would recommend the speakers I just got, and the receiver. The speakers are Polk tsx330t as you can see here.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00CH...pi=AC_SY200_QL40#immersive-view_1424073809743

I also picked up a 2 channel amp called a marantz PM5004.

Yiu can get this stuff MUCH cheaper than Amazon prices if you shop on eBay. I got my speakers for a little more than the cost of one, on eBay, and the marantz receiver for less than $200.00. There is also a matching CD5004 if you want a cd player that matches. The amp remote already is compatible with cd player. I would however suggest a sub woofer if you like more bass. That receiver has an integrated phono pre amp as well.

I am very happy with mine. I think it sounds great.

Here's the marantz.
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=HiFiComponents&ProductId=PM5004

i was actually leaning towards marantz as far as reciever. sent you a PM, but yes this recommendation was actually what i hoped for

I'm pretty excited about today; I'm getting a vintage amp I've always wanted and will pair it with the McIntosh preamp I posted a few replies earlier. I'm getting the last core component for my dedicated vintage 2-ch setup, that I'm putting together for the living room. This should be a lot of fun and offer a break from the more analytical equipment in my dedicated listening room.

Kiel said:

Tell me if I'm retarded here but I've been really thinking about going the complete opposite direction with a hifi set up. I've been looking at my amp and feeling hopeless at its sheer massiveness. Its larger in every dimension to my 20" PVM except for height and weighs so much I need another person just to move it (114 lbs). I cant fit it anywhere in my AV racking either and currently I live in a small ass apartment (I possibly might be moving into a house in a couple months).

Recently I was shown a PS Audio Sprout and it blew my mind at how small it was, how good it sounded with what it was working with, and the options its filled with. After doing my own research on it I've been seeing all these minimalist systems that look just gorgeous and simple. This CJ amp I have now is the kind you sit on the floor in between two huge ass tower speakers along with another pile of huge boxes and need a dedicated room for. And I'm really starting to not like that even though I LOVE the look of big, imposing, tower speakers.

So now instead of something like http://www.soundscapehifi.com/images/hifi-show-2006-3-11_LRG.jpg

I'm thinking of going to something like http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yVGIAKz0KWs/maxresdefault.jpg

And looking at these speakers
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/PM1
http://www.kef.com/html/us/showroom/flagship_hi-fi_series/LS50/overview/
http://www.goldenear.com/products/aon-series

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I can understand where you are coming from. Some of the most fun I’ve had with hifi has been a source run directly into an amp with gain pots. The simplicity of such a simple setup, utilizing only two devices, can be refreshing. However, I would urge you not to let that Evolution 2000 go. If you are not the type of person that changes equipment often, that CJ will take you very far into the future with likely any speaker upgrade you went with. Pair it with a good preamp and be done, just upgrade your speakers over time as funds allow. PS Audio makes great products, no doubt. I haven’t heard that PS integrated, but I feel almost certain it would be a significant downgrade from what you have. Why not hang on to the CJ until you get a house? That PS Audio integrated would be nice in a bedroom.

As for the speakers you linked. I like the KEF design approach. I have a strong preference for speakers that are time and phase coherent. The coaxial driver design helps in that area. I’m not sure what the crossover design on that speaker is, but a 1st order crossover is generally required in order to maintain time and phase alignment. I’m not crazy about B&W, they make some okay stuff. Golden Ear is highly overrated in my opinion. If you want a small speaker be sure to look at the Audience 1+1. I have not had an opportunity to hear a pair yet, but they are receiving very favorable feedback from those who have.

max 330 mega said:

you guys want to help me out? i recently sold my Audio Technica lp240 usb turntable, because it was huge and the lack of auto return on the stylus arm drove me nuts. i was using a stupid onkyo receiver/ bose 5 cube set up for the amp and speakers due to very limited space, and absolutely hated it. it was either this model or a turd just like it. http://www.samsclub.com/sams/bose-home-theater-system/prod1620573.ip
im pretty sure i will craigslist that stuff.

i have decided on this model turntable as my next, and have not decided whether i will buy the one with an internal preamp or get a receiver that handles that.
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FMNBXG...2569cfbc5ab9862fcc012_S&dra_hfr=1&dra_ohs=0-0

i need some recommendations on receivers, floor speakers, and am not opposed to vintage on either item. i would like to keep this all as close to $1000 or lower as possible, maybe as much as $1200 (including the cost of the new denon turntable) if it really makes a huge difference. the point of this set up will be that it goes in the living room, the fiance can operate the turntable with ease and not damage records, it sounds nice and LOUD and warm, and is a total of AT MOST 4 pieces if i absolutely need to include a n external pre amp. would prefer it be turntable, amp, and speakers though.

is this too difficult? i hope not. figured you AV dudes would like to throw together some suggestions. thanks in advance!

P.S. should probably also state that punk and classic rock and metal will be the primary music played on this rig.

Click to expand...

The equipment I recommended for greedostick, is also what I would suggest for you.

Here is the original thread where it was all discussed.
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...eo-Receiver-and-Speakers-on-Amazon&highlight=

There is a slight exception; because you’re open to vintage equipment. Check out the 22XX series Marantz stuff. The last two digits of the model number indicate the watts per channel. You’ll get closer to the warn tonality you’re looking for. Just be aware that these are from the 70’s. Spend a little extra for one that has been serviced and is operating to spec; it's well worth the extra cost to prevent a headache down the road. Parts are not an issue and they are not expensive to repair should you run into a problem.

The link below is for a serviced and warranty covered 2265b
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-226...867?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e54a811b

Here’s a 2270, this is the one to go for if you can.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Marantz-227...485?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35e54a4cd5

broken said:

The Aon 3's are what I am next going to purchase audio wise.

And I agree with your viewpoint of going with a more minimalist audio setup.

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See the comment I posted for Kiel

thanks for the input guys, love the look of the old marantz receivers and will keep my eyes peeled for good deals on serviced ones!

So this is the living room setup for the wife. I need to upgrade the center channel. The Yamaha does do its job though.

@ Kid Panda - Yeah bro, you could use a upgraded center. The center channel and sub are two of the most important speakers in a surround setup. Remember, it's important that the speakers for L/C/R are timbre matched. You might want to experiment with running a phantom center for the time being until you change/upgrade your speakers.....you might actually hear an improvement.

Neo Ash said:

@ Kid Panda - Yeah bro, you could use a upgraded center. The center channel and sub are two of the most important speakers in a surround setup. Remember, it's important that the speakers for L/C/R are timbre matched. You might want to experiment with running a phantom center for the time being until you change/upgrade your speakers.....you might actually hear an improvement.

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I'd like to get the center channel that is matched to my mains, but its freaking huge!

Kid Panda said:

I'd like to get the center channel that is matched to my mains, but its freaking huge!

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Good center speakers usually are. Wall mount your TV and lay it on top of the stand. You could also attempt to source a single speaker like the pair you are using for the left and right channels.

Talk about some old audio equipment...