Official A/V Thread

Kid Panda

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From what I have read, low frequences are less directional than high frequencies. There can be low-frequency interchannel phase differences in true stereo recordings. I'm not an expert in these things though.

Well wiring a speaker out of phase is going to cancel the sound of another. The only time you would wire a subwoofer out of phase is in an isobaric configuration. I worked in car audio for 15 years and EVERY engineer that a company would send out would always talk about how low frequencies are non directional. Many people think all bass is the same, mid bass for example would be directional and can be pointed out, subsonic frequencies cannot be pointed out, it's more of a surround type of sound considering its mostly pushing air.
 

Neo Ash

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It's better to have two subwoofers than one (i.e., stereo subwoofers). Electrostatic speakers are better than dynamic, but they're more expensive, and harder to set up.

This is a matter of opinion and personal preference. One of the main problems with using a subwoofer for each channel in a 2-ch system is proper setup. A main consideration is placement. Perfect symmetry, while it looks nice, can result in resonance doubling.
In my opinion, for music, full range speakers are the best way to go. I refuse to use a subwoofer in my 2-ch system.

There are some very affordable electrostatic speakers. Magnepan has a pair for around $600. Eminent Technology has a large bookshelf for about $1200. Martin Logan has some starting around $2K. There are some expensive models; however, there are also some good affordable options. All speakers require proper placement to get the best performance. That’s why I have sharpie labeled masking tape all over the floor in my listening room. Take the time to get them dialed in and mark the placement if you see a need to move them or have a rotation of speakers in your collection. The main issue with electrostatic panel placement has to do with proper toe-in and providing enough breathing room. Electrostatic speakers are dipoles and will emit sound from the rear of the panel. Consequently; if they are crammed in a corner, they will not sound their best. Also, eletrostic speaker present a different type of load to an amplifier, when compared to typical cone/dome drivers. Don't pair an electrostatic speaker with a $99 AVR.


From what I have read, low frequences are less directional than high frequencies. There can be low-frequency interchannel phase differences in true stereo recordings. I'm not an expert in these things though.

Let me expand a little without going over board or getting too technical. What you are referring to is sound localization. At around 100Hz a person’s ability to localize sound begins to drop off. Therefor whether or not a subwoofer's location can or cannot be pinpointed has more to do with the crossover setting. At 120Hz and higher a sub can be localized until the frequency outputted drops to around the 100Hz to 80Hz range and lower. Lowering the crossover can minimize directional information and if dropped low enough totally eliminate it. Therefore, sub-bass frequencies cannot be located. In addition to the frequency - amplitude, room wave frequency support, and phase differences also play a role in whether or not a subwoofer can be localized. In most any room if a sub crossover is set to 60 to 50Hz, the listener will not be able to determine where the sub is located. It is important to remember that a crossover is a slope, not a cutoff point.
 

joe8

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This is a matter of opinion and personal preference. One of the main problems with using a subwoofer for each channel in a 2-ch system is proper setup. A main consideration is placement. Perfect symmetry, while it looks nice, can result in resonance doubling.
In my opinion, for music, full range speakers are the best way to go. I refuse to use a subwoofer in my 2-ch system.

There are some very affordable electrostatic speakers. Magnepan has a pair for around $600. Eminent Technology has a large bookshelf for about $1200. Martin Logan has some starting around $2K. There are some expensive models; however, there are also some good affordable options. All speakers require proper placement to get the best performance. That’s why I have sharpie labeled masking tape all over the floor in my listening room. Take the time to get them dialed in and mark the placement if you see a need to move them or have a rotation of speakers in your collection. The main issue with electrostatic panel placement has to do with proper toe-in and providing enough breathing room. Electrostatic speakers are dipoles and will emit sound from the rear of the panel. Consequently; if they are crammed in a corner, they will not sound their best. Also, eletrostic speaker present a different type of load to an amplifier, when compared to typical cone/dome drivers. Don't pair an electrostatic speaker with a $99 AVR.




Let me expand a little without going over board or getting too technical. What you are referring to is sound localization. At around 100Hz a person’s ability to localize sound begins to drop off. Therefor whether or not a subwoofer's location can or cannot be pinpointed has more to do with the crossover setting. At 120Hz and higher a sub can be localized until the frequency outputted drops to around the 100Hz to 80Hz range and lower. Lowering the crossover can minimize directional information and if dropped low enough totally eliminate it. Therefore, sub-bass frequencies cannot be located. In addition to the frequency - amplitude, room wave frequency support, and phase differences also play a role in whether or not a subwoofer can be localized. In most any room if a sub crossover is set to 60 to 50Hz, the listener will not be able to determine where the sub is located. It is important to remember that a crossover is a slope, not a cutoff point.
So, there is technically crossover at low frequencies, but humans can't hear well enough at under 100hz to localize them? Maybe the overall sound would still be better. It's arguable that the frequencies humans can't hear, still have an effect on those they can. So the low frequencies still might be relevant, even though you can't hear them.
 

miisalo

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Reason to have more than 1 subwoofer is not stereo sound but to eliminate room modes. Using two sub setup, some of the room modes can be eliminated, if subwoofers can be located in the middle of walls opposite end of the room (front/back or left/right). With 4 sub setup, one sub in the middle of each wall, average response is very good, but low end suffers a bit.

As a compromise, I have 3 subwoofer setup, one only for frequencies under 30Hz and have two helmholtz resonators in the room. Also parts of the room has 25cm think layer of damping material.

There are many studies of the optimal subwoofer setup and using also bass traps like resonators but here is one that is in English and easy to understand

http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Innovation/Documents/White Papers/multsubs.pdf
 

Dr Shroom

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Are there companies who still make decent record players nowadays or am I forced to dig out some player from the eighties?
 

terry.330

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Turntables are better than ever nowadays.

Pro-ject, Music Hall, Rega, Marantz, Audio Technica, Technics, Denon etc.

How much you looking to spend?

Do you want a dedicated phono amp or just want to hook something up to a basic AV receiver?
 

Dr Shroom

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Nevermind, its all way beyond of what I'm willing to spend on something like this.
 

famicommander

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I just found out the Wii U can output 1080p over component. None of my other devices (PS3, 360, cable box) can do that because of bullshit HDCP but apparently Nintendo doesn't comply to HDCP standards.

This is awesome news because it saves me the hassle of using an HDMI switch to get all four devices plugged into my TV. It has three HDMI ports and one set component ports, so everything works out great.

Speaking of my TV, I just got an LG 60BP6650 60" plasma to replace my trusty 42" Viera. Pretty happy with it, glad I could stay with plasma instead of LCD.
 

wataru330

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1080p over component looks like ass.


Agreed.

When not in the 240 zone,
I'm a 720p
Simple 2x
Flicker filter zero
Soften turned off
Hardware filtering point, kind of guy.
 
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famicommander

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Looks exactly the same on my TV. Rayman Legends and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate both run at native 1080p on Wii U and both games look just as good on component as they do on HDMI.

720p content upscaled to 1080p also looks the same (Mario Kart 8, 3D Land).
 

zaneiken

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I just found out the Wii U can output 1080p over component. None of my other devices (PS3, 360, cable box) can do that because of bullshit HDCP but apparently Nintendo doesn't comply to HDCP standards.

Xbox 360 does 1080p over component too.
 

famicommander

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Xbox 360 does 1080p over component too.
It does, but not when watching HD-DVDs. You have to use HDMI or VGA for that. I once tried to watch an HD-DVD over component and it just kept blacking out the screen every five seconds.

Maybe the same is true for PS3 and Blu Ray, actually. I've never hooked it up with component cables because of Blu Ray and HDCP, so maybe it also allows 1080p over component for games.

So I guess it's just that the Wii U doesn't play any HD video discs so I'm not going to encounter any HDCP problems. Maybe HD Netflix content? I'll have to see.

(I might be the last guy with an HD-DVD player, I know)
 

famicommander

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I've got one too. Purely ornamental now. I was very much in the red camp back then, but have since replaced my HD-DVDs with their BD equivalents.
I didn't see a reason to replace them since I still have the Xbox 360 hooked up. I have far more Blu Rays but HD-DVDs are often dirt cheap in comparison for the same movie.
 

Kid Panda

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Looks exactly the same on my TV. Rayman Legends and Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate both run at native 1080p on Wii U and both games look just as good on component as they do on HDMI.

720p content upscaled to 1080p also looks the same (Mario Kart 8, 3D Land).

What display are you using and what cables? Even 720 over component has a violently soft image. I'm just curious.
 

famicommander

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What display are you using and what cables? Even 720 over component has a violently soft image. I'm just curious.

LG 60" plasma 6650, official Nintendo component cables, all post processing shit turned off, calibrated with video essentials blu ray, black levels set to high, power saving mode off.
 

Kid Panda

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Strange, I have a pioneer elite plasma using official cables and its looks like soft ass. All post processing is turned off as well. We tried on a friends Sharp Aquos LCD and it was the same thing. Even my brother's Panasonic plasma did the exact same thing. Either way, I have a switch box for HDMI that has HDCP stripping built in.
 

Orpheus

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Are there companies who still make decent record players nowadays or am I forced to dig out some player from the eighties?

lol. For realz wit that Q.

Turntables are better than ever nowadays.

Pro-ject, Music Hall, Rega, Marantz, Audio Technica, Technics, Denon etc.

Add Linn, Thorens & SME as well.


Nevermind, its all way beyond of what I'm willing to spend on something like this.

The fuck?
Did you just ask: "Are there companies who still make decent record players nowadays?"

What did you think?
That they were giving away quality engineering & construction for next to free?
 
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Neo Ash

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Strange, I have a pioneer elite plasma using official cables and its looks like soft ass. All post processing is turned off as well. We tried on a friends Sharp Aquos LCD and it was the same thing. Even my brother's Panasonic plasma did the exact same thing. Either way, I have a switch box for HDMI that has HDCP stripping built in.

I've been very happy with my Panasonic plasma. Plasma is great for gaming. There's just a lot of fear-mongering centered around burn in.

I've been playing a lot of PS2 recently on my plasma. It looks good...so good....I don't have a desire to drag out my Sony Wega CRT.

I am sending all the video through an AVR. The AVR is handling all the video conversion/upscale and sends everything out at 1080 over HDMI. I'll have to try it again with a system directly connected to the TV to determine if there is a difference in quality. Let me know if you're interested in comparison shots, and I'll post some pics for you.
 
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ki_atsushi

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Dr Shroom

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Already bought one but I'm not gonna talk about so I don't offend the elitist asshole/cumwhore for NGF Orpheus above.
 

Neo Ash

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Yeah, ignore him.

What did you get?

I know what the doctor ordered.:-J However, I'll let him do the official reveal. We exchanged some PM's about it.

I'm interested in hearing his opinions also. It appears to be a nice TT, full of features that should meet his needs nicely.
 
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