Official A/V Thread

miisalo said:

Just read interesting article about local test where 500 euros Denon 5.1 amplifier was ABX tested against 2000 euros stereo amplifier and then ABX tested against different +4000 euros stereo amps in the homes of audiophiles.

Test result: In the AB part (amp is known) people found huge differences, but X part confirmed that in reality no hearable difference was found. Not even with different speaker setups etc. This confirms the same as the other ABX tests. Stereo amps having better sound quality than surround amps is just myth when comparing modern equipment. The might be some measurable differences but ABX test confirms that human cannot hear them, at least using normal listening rooms.

I have to confess that I didn't expected that low price point for "perfect amp". But as an "engineer" I'm not surprised. Differences in modern amps are other than audio quality of DA converters or amplifier circuit. And hifi scene is full of bullshit. Like lexicon bd player that had oppo bd player inside, or Iwontmentionthename amplifier costing more than 10k having basically under 1000e marantz inside with bit customized firmware.

Click to expand...

I think we have come to a point where once you have a half decent amp and speakers (roughly 1000 - 2000 eur budget for whole thing) you start getting very little or no improvement from spending more on the actual audio hardware and people should instead focus on the actual listening environment. Furniture can really spoil the experience when everything starts resonating. I´m very happy with my denon amp and Tannoy speakers (entry level hi-fi-ish) but the living room shelves are a bit of a problem with regards to my BK Electronics subwoofer. I have to really place things on shelves in specific places or they start vibrating in a bad way

Actually speakers are something that hog lot of money. Even more when you first use money for the listening environment. I mean abx test shows that it is possible to spot the difference even in the five figure range. But I think you are right that probably the sweet spot is somewhere between 1000-3000euros for pair of speaker. The quality of sound is good enough and you need to put much more money to improve just a bit. Unfortunately I'm not happy in the sweet spot :P

Kid Panda said:

Hey guys, kinda just throwing this out there, I've got a Onkyo HX Pro tape deck I no longer use, it needs a heavy cleaning as it was in storage.... Anyone interested in it?

Click to expand...

Possibly, I've been getting some tapes lately

Kiel said:

Possibly, I've been getting some tapes lately

Click to expand...

It's gone bro. I PM'd him a couple of weeks ago. Panda passed it on to a buddy that has a boat load of tapes, so it got a good home.

I guess I'll just "borrow" my step dad's old TEAC

Been doing a lot of looking around and pricing things out but I thought I'd ask you guys if you have any recommendations. Looking to get a turntable and phono preamp for around $2k

Kiel said:

Been doing a lot of looking around and pricing things out but I thought I'd ask you guys if you have any recommendations. Looking to get a turntable and phono preamp for around $2k

Click to expand...

First off, don’t cheap out on the phono preamp. Given your budget, I’d highly recommend the Rega RP3 turntable. For the price, it’s an excellent buy. Also, it takes well to upgrades. I’ve heard the RP3 with a Dynavector 10X5(~$500), and it sounded fantastic. Rega also makes a couple of phono preamps. The next obvious turntable suggestion is Pro-Ject and Music Hall. You can pretty much flip a coin when selecting between the two; Pro-Ject makes turntables for Music Hall. If you don’t mind purchasing a dealer demo or pre-owned, for around the same money as the RP3, with a basic cartridge, you could probably get a used/demo VPI Traveler. The VPI will smoke the RP3. If the RP3 doesn’t do it for you and you’re not feeling any of the Pro-Ject or Music Hall stuff, let me give you a wildcard. The SOTA Moonbeam. The SOTA will come in a little cheaper than the Rega; the Rega does come with a superior tonearm. However, it will be on par with similar priced turntables from Pro-Ject and Music Hall sonically, and in my opinion looks better. It is available in several different wood finish options.

Concerning the phono preamp, again, this is not area to cut corners. Personally, I feel that given your budget, there’s not a tube based phono preamp that I could recommend for you. Yes, they are available, but not worth it until you begin to near the $2K mark, IMO. The first phono stage that comes to mind is the Rogue Triton. All the Rogue products are very well built and good sounding. I currently own their flagship tube phono preamp, the Ares. Also, look at the Sutherland PH3D; it’s a fantastic preamp that gets a lot of stuff right at the price point. One thing that is very important to me, because I change equipment fairly often, is a phono preamp with a lot of loading options. Both of the above recommendations excel in this area. You’ll be able to use just about any cartridge you could imagine; the added flexibility is really nice.

I've been seriously looking at a VPI traveller or scout 1.1 and bumping up the budget. Thanks for the phono pre amp suggestions I'll go check them out

Ok guys, so my kinda base model Panasonic digital amp finally bit the dust. I think the amplifier stages finally gave up the ghost. Right now I'm using a Onkyo TX-SV303PRO receiver, I do like it, but here's the thing, it has no center channel power. My entertainment center is already crowded as it is so I'm looking to get a new receiver. The one I have my eye on is the Onkyo TXNR636, it's a little overkill for my setup, but it does upgrade me a little as far as entertainment device control. Would you guys say this is a decent receiver for the money? I don't have very large speakers either as I will mostly either be using a set of JBLs or a set of Yamahas. Input would be much appreciated!

Kid Panda said:

Ok guys, so my kinda base model Panasonic digital amp finally bit the dust. I think the amplifier stages finally gave up the ghost. Right now I'm using a Onkyo TX-SV303PRO receiver, I do like it, but here's the thing, it has no center channel power. My entertainment center is already crowded as it is so I'm looking to get a new receiver. The one I have my eye on is the Onkyo TXNR636, it's a little overkill for my setup, but it does upgrade me a little as far as entertainment device control. Would you guys say this is a decent receiver for the money?

Click to expand...

That should be a nice upgrade. Personally, I cannot be without a center channel, it just doesn't sound right without it for HT. My biggest problem with Onkyo AVRs, is the fact that they are legendary for burning up the HDMI portion of the unit due to heat. I've got one of the bigger Onkyo's and that thing gets hot. However, I have never had a problem; this is likely due to the fact that it has two automatic thermostat controlled fans sitting on top of it.

I don't have very large speakers either as I will mostly either be using a set of JBLs or a set of Yamahas. Input would be much appreciated!

Click to expand...

The physical size of a speaker is not always a good indication of how difficult it is to drive. There are power/current hungry bookshelf speakers and there are huge floor standing speakers that only need a couple of watts to blow your head off. Now the little home-theater-in-a-box speakers...yeah...those are easy to drive.

Both those preamps look pretty awesome. That Sutherland has me going two ways, on one hand I like that since it's battery powered it's completely isolated plus it wouldn't take up another power socket in my already jammed set up...but the thought of continually putting in $25 worth of batteries makes me cringe.

Kiel said:

Both those preamps look pretty awesome. That Sutherland has me going two ways, on one hand I like that since it's battery powered it's completely isolated plus it wouldn't take up another power socket in my already jammed set up...but the thought of continually putting in $25 worth of batteries makes me cringe.

Click to expand...

It's not that big of a deal. A set of quality batteries (Duracell) will be good for over 1,000 hours. When the battery power level diminishes to a point where the audio quality begins to diminish, the preamp will alert you. $25 every couple of years or so (depending on usage) is nothing compared to the expense of replacing/experimenting/swapping NOS and/or rare tubes...believe me. For example, if I retubed my Ares with super rare tubes, it could cost upwards of $400.

Oh I didn't realize it lasted that long. That just sweetens things

Going to make a stop at Needle Doctor on Tuesday and check out a Jolida JD9 preamp and some Regas

Kiel said:

Going to make a stop at Needle Doctor on Tuesday and check out a Jolida JD9 preamp and some Regas

Click to expand...

Cool. Report back your findings. I'm not crazy about Jolida; maybe you can sway my opinion.

I'm pretty jealous that you live close enough to just "make a stop" at Needle Doctor.

It is pretty cool that I have that opportunity, I've never even been there before. I've walked by it quite a few times when it was at it's other location by the university of Minnesota.

I'll of course be giving a good look at that Rouge Triton while I'm there. It's too bad they don't carry vpi tables though

So I was trolling Craigslist today and stumbled across a pretty sweet deal. Guy was selling a NIB Onkyo TX-NR626. I had been looking at the 636 but I noticed the only difference i could tell was that the 636 was Dolby Atmos ready, I have no idea what this is so I knew I wouldn't use it. Got the 626 for $200. Finally going to retire the 303 to the bedroom for soft music duty.

Onkyo! Onkyo! Onkyo!

Sooooo my uncle just gave me one of these. I don't even

Kiel said:

Sooooo my uncle just gave me one of these. I don't even

View attachment 21569

Click to expand...

That's a nice vintage CJ; it looks to be in very good shape. That's one to hang on to. Be sure to pair it up with a good preamp and some nice tubes. In general the 12ax7 tubes can be used as a direct replacement for the 5751 if you need/want some additional gain. The 5751 tubes are great, I like the quieter lower gain factor that they offer, as well as being very rugged; these were the military spec version of the 12ax7. If you want more of the classic CJ sound, drop in some new old stock Tung-Sol 5751 long gray plates.

P.S. - PM me if you ever want to sell it, seriously.

Don't spend 2015 with a TV that is not properly setup. Get more from your display!

* Avoid the factory "vivid" setting. Cinema/Movie is almost always the best choice for people not interested in tackling an all-out TV calibration.
* Turn off over scanning
* Contrast settings - This is key to getting deep black levels.
* Dynamic Contrast - Try turning this off. Experiment, this is somewhat TV/brand dependent.
* Brightness - Keep this setting within reason. 40 to 50% is a good ballpark setting to start off with.

Another one:

Sharpness - Turn this down to neutral.

Neo Ash said:

Don't spend 2015 with a TV that is not properly setup. Get more from your display!

* Avoid the factory "vivid" setting. Cinema/Movie is almost always the best choice for people not interested in tackling an all-out TV calibration.
* Turn off over scanning
* Contrast settings - This is key to getting deep black levels.
* Dynamic Contrast - Try turning this off. Experiment, this is somewhat TV/brand dependent.
* Brightness - Keep this setting within reason. 40 to 50% is a good ballpark setting to start off with.

Click to expand...

Yo Ashypants, what are your thoughts about getting displays professionally calibrated? I used to do this with any new TV that I purchased over the years. Usually these guys coordinate a multi-state tour if you will, and try to fill out their days with in-home appointments which ultimately results in an easy experience for the display owner at a decent price if the AV pro schedules his appts in the right way.

I used to be pretty good pals with David @ avical.com and he's come out a couple times. I decided to not call him when I got our latest plasma display and ended up using one of those spears & munsil calibration discs.

My feeling is that with many of the later fixed pixel displays such as Plasma and LCD/LED, they look just fine out of the box with a little tweeking. I used to rely on Dave's services a lot more when I was buying new CRTs or rear projection / DLP displays but that's not really happening any more obviously. Thoughts?

Calibration is always important.