Retro Gamer magazine's terrible Metal Slug feature --reviewed!

kspiff said:

Summary for those who didn't read the previous 19 pages:

1.) They still print magazines, and apparently some of them are extremely overpriced (and don't even have porn in them);

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How long has this shit been going on?!?

Michael Yagami said:

How long has this shit been going on?!?

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I don't know. Maybe we could get Stu to do some painstaking research on the topic?

ki_atsushi said:

So, so late to the party.

What a thread, this is quite possibly the best ever. Thank you Bobak.

Stewart, I think you missed a huge point that Bobak was trying to make... it was the fact that you (whether consciously or not) omitted a lot of important background information on the Metal Slug series. He never really said that you got your facts wrong (a la Lithy), he said that there just weren't enough facts PERIOD.

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You're having a joke, right? My contention is that essentially you're a bunch of fucking retards who can't read or comprehend English, which you seek to disprove by... wading into a 20-page thread about someone called "Stuart" and deciding you can suddenly change the spelling of his name? Awesome. Just awesome.

The "point" you make above, if we can call it that, was addressed in my very first post. The Definitive isn't a n00b's guide. Not every feature in every magazine has to be aimed at people who know nothing about the subject, especially when by definition Retro Gamer is primarily read by people who are already familiar with old games. Duh.

As for your subsequent wanking on about factual errors, 22 pages in we're still waiting to hear one. We've got one demented lunatic shrieking endlessly about imaginary creatures and contradicting his own definitions of them every second sentence, and one thicko who's imagined something inaccurate "implied" by a statement which is in fact 100% correct. Apart from that, zip.

Your article is plain terrible, Stewart. Sorry.

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You haven't read it, so I'm going to go right ahead and continue not giving a fuck what you think about anything. In fact, I couldn't give any less of a fuck about what someone who can't even copy a six-letter name down without screwing it up has to say about the quality of my writing, even if I had a full-blown triple surgical fuckectomy conducted by the best fuckatrician in all the land.

Steve said:

Stu has DEFINITELY calmed down somewhat, and been a bit more cautious in his latest replies in this thread

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Hey Steve! I hope you get cancer, and that your cancer gets AIDS, and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.

Better?


PS I'm off out for the weekend now, loves. See if you can't get it to 50 pages by the time I'm back, eh? Ideally all still about mummies.

RevStu said:

As for your subsequent wanking on about factual errors, 22 pages in we're still waiting to hear one. We've got one demented lunatic shrieking endlessly about imaginary creatures and contradicting his own definitions of them every second sentence, and one thicko who's imagined something inaccurate "implied" by a statement which is in fact 100% correct. Apart from that, zip.

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Apart from the few things that could be seen as factual errors and that you haven't done anything to dispute there are no factual errors?

I guess that's like saying, well apart from all this water this ocean sure isn't as wet as it is cracked up to be.

EDIT! Mummies are not and have never been zombies.

Almost forgot.

RevStu said:

You're having a joke, right? My contention is that essentially you're a bunch of fucking retards who can't read or comprehend English, which you seek to disprove by... wading into a 20-page thread about someone called "Stuart" and deciding you can suddenly change the spelling of his name? Awesome. Just awesome.

The "point" you make above, if we can call it that, was addressed in my very first post. The Definitive isn't a n00b's guide. Not every feature in every magazine has to be aimed at people who know nothing about the subject, especially when by definition Retro Gamer is primarily read by people who are already familiar with old games. Duh.

As for your subsequent wanking on about factual errors, 22 pages in we're still waiting to hear one. We've got one demented lunatic shrieking endlessly about imaginary creatures and contradicting his own definitions of them every second sentence, and one thicko who's imagined something inaccurate "implied" by a statement which is in fact 100% correct. Apart from that, zip.



You haven't read it, so I'm going to go right ahead and continue not giving a fuck what you think about anything. In fact, I couldn't give any less of a fuck about what someone who can't even copy a six-letter name down without screwing it up has to say about the quality of my writing, even if I had a full-blown triple surgical fuckectomy conducted by the best fuckatrician in all the land.



Hey Steve! I hope you get cancer, and that your cancer gets AIDS, and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.

Better?


I'm off out for the weekend now, loves. See if you can't get it to 50 pages by the time I'm back, eh?

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Will your weekend consist of poorly-done 'research' or just you using a different handle here to make it seem like you are actually working for a living?

Hope some chavs kill you for smokes, guy.

I can't wrap my head around one thing:

23 pages and nobody has called him Stewie yet?

Or is my memory failing me?

A nice Photoshop job of the squirrel pic on his pants leg would have been tits as well. Perhaps something about being misled into believing the journey would yield him some nuts.

Ah yes, another display of professional, no, definitive journalism. Way to go dude.

lithy said:

I think your problem with attempting to get people to change their minds is that you failed to present an argument and supporting evidence. You keep saying that Bobak's review was properly destroyed, but all I saw was post after post of Stu losing it and then a few posts from Darran saying he felt the point of the Definitive may have been missed. Nobody really got around to addressing any of his actual points.

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I don't think I ever said it was destroyed - I think I've taken the position that it rather destroyed itself - I said that I've not seen anyone state anything that backs up his claims that the article contained factual errors or was poorly researched. Apart from your epic zombie/mummy point, of course.

I've also boasted loads of times that I've not read the article, and yet told lots and lots of people off for not having read the article and commenting about it. Which I always thought was a pretty severe flaw in my position. Still, you'd think someone would have been able to come up with an example of a mistake in the article if the original post was valid, so based on the evidence available, my position seems solid enough.

I also suppose that Stuart was never on the list of people you wanted to see if they could back down and rethink some things.

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No, that would have been fascinating to see. However, I couldn't really find anything I thought Stuart should back down from thus far - I did appeal to quite a few people to give some evidence we could use to get him to, but none came.

I mean, it says Mummy on the damned building for fuck's sake. How much clearer can it be that they aren't zombies?!?

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You're funny.

kspiff said:

23 pages and nobody has called him Stewie yet?

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Don't worry, I've got the childish insults covered already.

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2719282&postcount=119

Go England!

I am now going to apply the lessons which I have learned from this thread and completely dance around the fact that you just pointed out that you had already called him Stewie because my research is always painstakingly accurate and my memory is completely infallible.

Um... oh yeah, forgot to toss in love/mate/sweetie/butterknees so everybody knows that I'm talking down to you as well as very British (note the superb lack of hyphenation, thank you neo-geo.com!). Next time.

This thread badly needs to be mummificated.

Then we zombify Stu and let them fight it out... then we'll see once and for all who's boss of the undeads.

My money is on the Mummies of course.

RevStu said:

You're having a joke, right? My contention is that essentially you're a bunch of fucking retards who can't read or comprehend English, which you seek to disprove by... wading into a 20-page thread about someone called "Stuart" and deciding you can suddenly change the spelling of his name? Awesome. Just awesome.

The "point" you make above, if we can call it that, was addressed in my very first post. The Definitive isn't a n00b's guide. Not every feature in every magazine has to be aimed at people who know nothing about the subject, especially when by definition Retro Gamer is primarily read by people who are already familiar with old games. Duh.

As for your subsequent wanking on about factual errors, 22 pages in we're still waiting to hear one. We've got one demented lunatic shrieking endlessly about imaginary creatures and contradicting his own definitions of them every second sentence, and one thicko who's imagined something inaccurate "implied" by a statement which is in fact 100% correct. Apart from that, zip.



You haven't read it, so I'm going to go right ahead and continue not giving a fuck what you think about anything. In fact, I couldn't give any less of a fuck about what someone who can't even copy a six-letter name down without screwing it up has to say about the quality of my writing, even if I had a full-blown triple surgical fuckectomy conducted by the best fuckatrician in all the land.



Hey Steve! I hope you get cancer, and that your cancer gets AIDS, and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.

Better?


PS I'm off out for the weekend now, loves. See if you can't get it to 50 pages by the time I'm back, eh? Ideally all still about mummies.

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Please don't get the wrong impression... I don't give a rat's ass how you spell your name. If you think for one second that I thought one second about how your name was spelled from memory, well, you wasted a second that I didn't. I sure as hell wasnt going to go back and read how your name was spelled.

Henceforth I will refer to you as dumbass.

Dumbass, why is it called a definitive guide when it isn't anywhere near definitive? You still haven't answered that one.

Let me ask you some more important questions: if the readers already know about the background of Metal Slug (and all the other details you left out) then why write about it at all? Are you saying by your own inadvertent admission that this article is meant to be nothing more than fluff and fanservice?

Another reminder - Stu is 41, ugly and boring.

And he is off this weekend, (like thats different from any other weekend) so he will spend his time on the internet. (like thats any different from any other weekend)

TonK said:

Another reminder - Stu is 41, ugly and boring.

And he is off this weekend, (like thats different from any other weekend) so he will spend his time on the internet. (like thats any different from any other weekend)

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Yeah, and since I work for a living, I won't have much time to sit and argue today. I hope Dumbass hurries up and replies to my post before I go to work.

STEWIE, WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY BEE PICS? I WANT MY FUCKIN BEE PICS, MATE!

RevStu said:

Hey Steve! I hope you get cancer, and that your cancer gets AIDS, and that you and your entire family die of being raped to death by rabid wolves in the middle of a choking chemical fire. Know what else? 9/11 was brilliant. I watched it all on TV and I laughed the whole time.

Better?

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Now that's the Stuart we all (wish we didn't) know and love (not).

As for raped to death and cancer and shit.... you and yours first, mate.

Better, you ask? Now it is.

Fixed.

I finally READ the article while standing at Barnes and Noble last night.

First things first, I have to give big ups to Darran for publishing a great looking mag dedicated to retro gaming. I've never looked at this mag before, but it's nice to see something around for us old-tymers.

Skipping over to the Metal Slug section, I noticed a two page spread on Windjammers right before it. A great little article about an overlooked classic that describes all of the game's functions, going into its history, talks about gameplay, and provides some great opinionated thoughts. I could only hope to receive the same treatment from an 8-page article titled "The Definitive." I was wrong.

The art department did a great job on the backgrounds layout for the DMS (Definitive Metal Slug). In fact, they did such a good job that it made the article actually look professional and compensated for the poor writing. As such, I would credit them as having contributed at least 50%, if not more, to the entire article. As for the actual writing itself?

Sigh.

Yes, I am coming in with a bias after having seen this 41yo "journalist" mouth off like a rotten preteen. However, I was trying to concentrate on the actual content without Bobak's original post standing in the way. I immediately noticed that the entire article was an incredibly opinionated review that failed to fairly illustrate the pros and cons of each game prior to issuing a summary judgement that appeared to be poorly generated either due to poor research or, as Bobak mentioned, poor writing.

If you take a look at any mainstream gaming site (Gamespot, IGN, 1UP), you will quickly be able to distinguish good writing in a Top-20 list, gaming retrospective, or a simple review by the way the writer conducts themselves. They will list the pros and cons, they will reserve their judgement until they have provided enough material for the reader to make up their own mind, and they will concentrate on the specific issues at hand. Stew's article did that in only two instances: overzealously concentrating on the zombie/fat modes (which can be easily side-stepped with good gaming) and providing great detail on the extras present in ported versions (incredibly short-sighted considering these have NOTHING to do with the actual original games).

If you look at Stew's site, you will see there are people who have never even played Metal Slug. I'd wager there are numerous people who never got the chance to experience the originals first-hand and thus relish retrospectives to get caught up on old gaming. Of course, there are numerous others who have experienced the originals and gladly welcome a trip down the lane. In either case, this articles fails them. For the former, it fails to provide any definitive information that will introduce them to the games and illustrate what made them appealing and worthy of being played 10+ years after release. For the latter, it will be just another rambling opinion (and everyone's got one, right?) that overly concentrates on lame extras that bring nothing to the gaming table.

To think that it would have taken a week to "write" this article is mind-boggling. The opinions voiced on each individual game are far less intricate or insightful than many of the reviews on this site, Kazuya's, or other fan generated sites. More than half of each game description focuses on ports and their extra content, information that can easily be gleamed from Wikipedia or other reviews. Concentrating on this extra content rather than the game itself takes away from the whole point of the franchise as an arcade run-n-gun shooter.

We're not talking about a Bubsy retrospective (remember the classic 3-D for the PSX?) or a Broken Sword retrospective. We're talking about one of the greatest gaming franchises that was hidden in the early years due to the prohibitive price point of the home system. This article brings absolutely NOTHING new to the table other than an opinion from a writer whose skills are dwarfed by numerous other mainstream writers and even several reviewers on our own forums. Poorly researched and poorly written, the DMS is pale compared even to the Windjammers article right before it. The biggest shame of all is that a magazine can put out a good Neo Geo article themselves but ends up paying someone else to put our a crappy "definitive" article.

Sincerely,

Mikhail

P.S. A mummy is not a zombie. It's right there on the hut. My last words on this sad subject.

OMG Mikhail, there's a 41 yrs old mag writer who hates you now.

I really hope you can cope with this frightening thought.

From MS4 summary:
"By the time the fourth release in the main Slug line arrived, SNK had gone down the dumper and remained only as a brand name. Playmore handled the new release, and came up with a game that was a bit less tedious than its predecessor"

From MS5 summary:
"Having cut it's teeth on Metal Slug 4, the following year's game saw Playmore get into it's stride a bit."

Can anyone in the class room spot whats incorrect about this?

The fact that Playmore is presumed to have developed both MS4 and 5?

Praise the Lard said:

Can anyone in the class room spot whats incorrect about this?

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Whats is its?


Tak, I can only hope they let me back into the country on my next visit. But they let in W, and I certainly haven't done to their citizens as much as he has.

ki_atsushi said:

Dumbass, why is it called a definitive guide when it isn't anywhere near definitive? You still haven't answered that one.

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Not aimed at me, but I doubt anyone else will answer it.

"Definitive: adjective - providing an unquestionable conclusion; being the best example of something."

The series is meant to talk about the best games in the series, as well giving details on other important and distinctive releases. That is what it does.

As stated in my previous post (which, for some reason, is pending moderator approval - maybe because I'm a no-good, dirty n00b), it is not meant to be -- nor is it billed as -- a complete guide to the series which covers every aspect of it.

What is your definition of "definitive", by the way? It seems that we have different definitions, hence the confusion.

EDIT: Bah, my previous post still hasn't materialised... I made a point-by-point reply to Bobak's post, as people have been asking for such a thing (a reasonable request). Now it just looks like I'm joining in to defend Stu - which I would like to point out is not what I am doing.

Edge Of Heaven said:

Interesting definition of "expert" you have.

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Okay, you read the article by the guy who just started "researching" the series one week ago if you prefer. lol

I've been reading gaming journalism long enough to know useless crap when I hear of it second-hand. I prefer not to waste my time. Next you'll be telling me that G4's editorializing is full of useful information.