can MVS Converter pins be fixed/replaced?

Noisepurge · Jan 13, 2009

Hi, i recently bought an MVS-AES converter 2 and the previous owner neglected to mention that a couple of the pins on the MVS end are busted.

Now, this does not affect the gameplay alot, thats why i only noticed it recently, it affects only scaling sprites from what ive seen, such as Last Blade 2 and Real Bout 2. When characters go far enough from each other or jump to the background. The character sprites go all buggy and jagged.

Now, i wanted to ask if these pins can be replaced or fixed by any relatively easy means? Any help would be a great..help? Id hate to watch broken games since this thing was not cheap :P

Replacing the whole MVS-end of the converter would be a huge pain since its like 120 pins.

Thanks again!

channelmaniac · Jan 13, 2009

Those pins on the end are ground pins. They shouldn't affect sprites.

It is possible to heat up the pins with a soldering iron and pull them out. Then you can post a pic of them. There are a couple of different styles of those pins and I might be able to pull some off of a scrap connector for you.

RJ

Noisepurge · Jan 13, 2009

Thanks! That would be hugely appreciated!

I just thought that a broken pin might cause such problems. Sometimes when the cart is not pushed in all the way the sprites and sound effects are first to become messed up in a similar fashion.

I will melt up a couple of them with a soldering iron and check.

Murray · Jan 13, 2009

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't strangely / badly scaling sprites one of the standard problems with MVS converters?

Neo Alec · Jan 13, 2009

The pins aren't the cause of this problem. It's a normal problem with the converter. Read the other topics about it on this forum.

BIG BEAR · Jan 13, 2009

The converter will play 100% of the games but not 100% perfectly.More like 90-94% play perfectly. Metal SLug X will not work with a Pro-Pow 3 deck.The deck that requires 10v 1000ma
BB

black_7 · Jan 13, 2009

channelmaniac said:
Those pins on the end are ground pins. They shouldn't affect sprites.

It is possible to heat up the pins with a soldering iron and pull them out. Then you can post a pic of them. There are a couple of different styles of those pins and I might be able to pull some off of a scrap connector for you.

RJ

Dude, you are an invaluable resource.

channelmaniac · Jan 13, 2009

Thanks! I always appreciate kind words

joe8 · Jan 14, 2009

The converter will play 100% of the games but not 100% perfectly.More like 90-94% play perfectly. Metal SLug X will not work with a Pro-Pow 3 deck.The deck that requires 10v 1000ma
BB

Are there some early revisions of the AES console that do scaling ok with the super mvs 2? My console is about 60000 rev3-5, but it has the scaling problems.
Any game that includes scaling effects will technically not play 100% perfectly. If you were picky enough to count the scaling in the "Neo Geo" intro screen, that's all of the games. But although quite a few games feature scaling, only fighting series like art of fighting, samurai shodown, fatal fury, last blade are problematic. Even then I'm only really annoyed by the scaling in the last blade games(although i haven't played the fatal fury games on the converter yet). Depending on how you see it, the scaling is at least a mild or moderate problem(but only on the aforementioned fighting series).
Your converter should probably work fine(with those pin problems) as long as the pins make contact on both sides. Sometimes buggy or jagged graphics can be worse if the screwdiver adjustment is not adjusted to the right setting.
BB- do you know if another new revision of the super mvs 2 is going to be released in the future, or are the converters about as good as they can get?

Noisepurge · Jan 14, 2009

Thank you all very much! I was aware that there are some problems when using a converter but i was in the belief that this 2nd model had perfect emulation.

And yeah the screwdriver-adjustment (who came up with this anyway) does change the jagged sprites alot in some games like KOF2003 and SS4. And i did not notice the buggy sprites until i played LB2 and now Realbout2, and in this it only appears when jumping to the background. LB2 is far worse.

But thanks again for all the quick replies! I will consider still heating those pins up and making a sweet deal with channelmaniac

Neo Alec · Jan 14, 2009

joe8 said:
Are there some early revisions of the AES console that do scaling ok with the super mvs 2? My console is about 60000 rev3-5, but it has the scaling problems.
Any game that includes scaling effects will technically not play 100% perfectly. If you were picky enough to count the scaling in the "Neo Geo" intro screen, that's all of the games. But although quite a few games feature scaling, only fighting series like art of fighting, samurai shodown, fatal fury, last blade are problematic. Even then I'm only really annoyed by the scaling in the last blade games(although i haven't played the fatal fury games on the converter yet). Depending on how you see it, the scaling is at least a mild or moderate problem(but only on the aforementioned fighting series).
Your converter should probably work fine(with those pin problems) as long as the pins make contact on both sides. Sometimes buggy or jagged graphics can be worse if the screwdiver adjustment is not adjusted to the right setting.
BB- do you know if another new revision of the super mvs 2 is going to be released in the future, or are the converters about as good as they can get?

It is completely unacceptable. We pay a lot of money to have arcade perfect Neo games at home and the jagged scaling produced by most systems with this converter is too big of a problem to live with. There is no indication at all that there will be a new version released, since the current version has been out for a long time now. I think someone in one of the other threads offered a reason for the scaling problem and lamented that they could have fixed it. Maybe I'm imagining it, and I should confirm.

Noisepurge said:
Thank you all very much! I was aware that there are some problems when using a converter but i was in the belief that this 2nd model had perfect emulation.

Emulation isn't the word for playing the games on authentic hardware, converter or not.

Noisepurge said:
And yeah the screwdriver-adjustment (who came up with this anyway) does change the jagged sprites alot in some games like KOF2003 and SS4.

The knob can do a lot of horrible things (wish it just worked without the knob) but I don't remember it doing a damn thing to help the scaling issue.

BIG BEAR · Jan 14, 2009

I tried to contact DR. Neo Geo(?) about the problem when he was still active trying to unload his product and received NO REPLY about this specific annoyance. I did however receive an immediate reply when inquiring about purchasing the converter in bulk.
What happened was the retailers and consumers purchased this product up too quickly without thoroughly evaluating it. Dr. NEO•GEO would have been forced to fix the problem if sales weren't brisk.
There will be no more revisions of the converter and just like any and all third party "WONDER PRODUCT" creations it appears nothing is or ever will be perfect.

joe8 said:
BB- do you know if another new revision of the super mvs 2 is going to be released in the future, or are the converters about as good as they can get?

Razoola · Jan 14, 2009

Correct me if Im wrong but from memory the scaling data tables are held on the AES itsself and not the game cart (one table for hortz scaling and the other for vertical). I can only assume that these tables on the MVS and AES are different...

I think I'm right in saying that one should be able to copy the table from the MVS onto the AES and the scaling will then be correct.

joe8 · Jan 15, 2009

Correct me if Im wrong but from memory the scaling data tables are held on the AES itself and not the game cart (one table for hortz scaling and the other for vertical). I can only assume that these tables on the MVS and AES are different...
I think I'm right in saying that one should be able to copy the table from the MVS onto the AES and the scaling will then be correct.

Why would the tables be different on AES? As a measure to dissuade people from playing AES carts on the MVS system/vice versa?
How would you copy the table from the MVS to the AES? Would it be hard to do? Would this work if the converter is still thinking there is a difference between the tables, and still tries to convert scaling data from MVS to AES? It would be converting when it wouldn't need to anymore.
What you are saying about data tables suggests that maybe the MVS converter can't handle the conversion between scaling data tables as well as it should.
I was wondering if there was some way of modifying the mvs converter 2 in order to make the scaling work? So the makers of the converter haven't released the schematics or other technical info? I've tried emailing the makers but that hasn't worked.

Noisepurge · Jan 15, 2009

Thanks again for everyone for huge support even when my original "problem" has been solved. But its good to create conversation on such an important matter!

And yes i know its not emulation when using a converter but dont take me that literally

joe8 · Jan 16, 2009

Raz- How would you copy the table from the MVS to the AES?

Another problem I have with some of my MVS games and the converter is having a few pixels the wrong color(like on an LCD when you have a few pixels out)- if the converter is out of adjustment there are more pixels. But usually it's a very minor problem. Also, the screwdriver adjustment thing on my converter is wearing out- plastic has come off it. Maybe I should get another circular switch from Radio Shack and solder it on- would it be some kind of analogue switch?

Neo Alec · Jan 16, 2009

I also ran into weird music problems on a few games, with certain channels suddenly changing in volume. Specifically, I had the most problems with KOF 2002.

darcotrigger · Jan 16, 2009

I tested both the smvs2 and phantom on a number of different AES consoles and the only revision of the system that either adaptor functioned flawlessly with was an un-modded low serial US AES (12xxx).

They worked almost flawless on a low serial JP system, aside from metal slug x, which just continually reset. Higher serial systems will all have scaling and sound issues with some carts. It's not the adaptor, it's the console itself.

Unless you have a low serial US AES, you may as well stick to MVS hardware for MVS games.

*on a side note, I found the dial had to be turned to the left on lower serial systems, and to the right on higher serial systems, or the screen would be garbled, and that none of the consoles I tried required the ac adaptor for the smvs2 to function.

joe8 · Jan 17, 2009

I tested both the smvs2 and phantom on a number of different AES consoles and the only revision of the system that either adaptor functioned flawlessly with was an un-modded low serial US AES (12xxx).

what was the next higher serial that you tested after 12xxx? Was the console you tested around a 125xx? I don't think modding the system would affect how well it works with the converter.
My console is 60xxx(Euro). I've opened the converter and soldered two of the three video adjuster pins together. The result is fairly good- samurai shodown has almost no scaling problems (over 95% good). Last Blade games are still problematic but are better than before(when I was using the adjusting screwdriver)-the last blade scaling must be different to aof and ss. Probably it's now about as good as it will get.

chewurface · Jan 17, 2009

Before I got my MVS setup I bought both a Phantom-1 and a Super Converter 2 (bought them years apart, for anyone who is wondering why I'm insane). I did mod my AES console (serial number 000128) with s-video. I've had no scaling or sound issues at all with the P1, only problem is that it won't play some SNK_P games, which is why I got the SC2. The SC2 has minor scaling issues, but I've only noticed it on fighters that "zoom". The sprites are ever so slightly messed up when the game zooms out, but everything is perfect when it's zoomed in. The garbled sprites are so hard to notice that I needed to do a side by side comparison to really see the difference. This is just my experience with the converters.

[edit]
Oh yeah, I didn't need to use any special power supply or anything either. My console is US version.

darcotrigger · Jan 17, 2009

joe8 said:
what was the next higher serial that you tested after 12xxx? Was the console you tested around a 125xx? I don't think modding the system would affect how well it works with the converter.
My console is 60xxx(Euro). I've opened the converter and soldered two of the three video adjuster pins together. The result is fairly good- samurai shodown has almost no scaling problems (over 95% good). Last Blade games are still problematic but are better than before(when I was using the adjusting screwdriver)-the last blade scaling must be different to aof and ss. Probably it's now about as good as it will get.

I don't remember all the exact serial #'s sadly. I bought the smvs2 because the phantom had a few issues with my main AES (232666 I think). I was pretty pissed off that the so called perfect smvs2 was really not any better, so I tested the hell out of it. If I can dig out the book I wrote it all down in I'll be sure to share my findings.

One thing I do recall was that on my high serial AES, going from a standard Svid mod to a Neobitz encoder actually seemed to help with the scaling (although it didn't completely fix it - last blade still looked terrible, but rbffs plain shifts were clean).

My findings also indicated that playing games with a standard US AES bios sucks.

Neo Alec · Jan 18, 2009

chewurface said:
The SC2 has minor scaling issues, but I've only noticed it on fighters that "zoom". The sprites are ever so slightly messed up when the game zooms out, but everything is perfect when it's zoomed in. The garbled sprites are so hard to notice that I needed to do a side by side comparison to really see the difference. This is just my experience with the converters.

Wow, for me it was horrible.

Noisepurge · Jan 18, 2009

joe8 said:
what was the next higher serial that you tested after 12xxx? Was the console you tested around a 125xx? I don't think modding the system would affect how well it works with the converter.
My console is 60xxx(Euro). I've opened the converter and soldered two of the three video adjuster pins together. The result is fairly good- samurai shodown has almost no scaling problems (over 95% good). Last Blade games are still problematic but are better than before(when I was using the adjusting screwdriver)-the last blade scaling must be different to aof and ss. Probably it's now about as good as it will get.

There is a soldering solution that solves some of the problems?

Is there a guide about it online, or could you provide a photo of the soldered converter? My AES is a japanese, serial 153722 and it has the previously mentioned bad scaling issues.

Cheers!

joe8 · Jan 19, 2009

I don't know of any soldering solution.
On my converter the screwdriver adjustment thing was becoming ruined from use(the 3 pins were bent- it was bent inwards). So I tried soldering a wire to it from the bottom right pin to the top pin. That seemed to make the picture, but after that I soldered a wire from the bottom left pin to the top pin, and somewhere along the line the picture got worse again. So now I've removed the adjusting thing from the PCB. Now I have a 3-way wire going between the 3 holes (that the adjuster pins went into). Basically the scaling now is maybe not as good as before, but the main problem is that a few areas of the screen are muddled- eg. in SS, Earthquake has a doubled foot(a doubled sprite?), and the tip of Hahomaru's sword is around the wrong way. So if there's no damage to your adjustment thing, then I think you might be better off leaving it as it is.
Does anyone know what kind of electrical device this adjustment thing on the Super Converter 2 is? Could the lack of it be causing the sprite problems I'm having? Is it a resistor, or is it some kind of manually adjusting knob switch(with no fixed positions)? Where on the net could I find a replacement for it?

joe8 · Jan 20, 2009

The video problems I'm having seem like they might not be possible to fix by altering the configuration of the 3 video wires. Maybe I should try a whole lot of different resistors on it. Maybe I damaged the chips on the front PCB with too much solder heat, that's all I can think of. Maybe only the makers know how the whole thing works? Probably it's beyond my capability to fix, especially without knowing what the parts are and how it works. Am I right in saying it doesn't have a warranty?
What do people think I should do- get another Super MVS 2? Or just use my MVS carts on 2-slot, and the few AES carts i have on my AES console? I like being able to play the MVS carts on my AES. But I was also thinking of getting a really low serial AES(without scaling issues) and selling the AES I've got.

can MVS Converter pins be fixed/replaced?

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